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Firemen form a human shield to protect voters from riot police in Catalunya.
Credit: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-independence-referendum-vote-protests-barcelona-madrid-police-guardia-civil-a7976556.html
letsdiscussthis
Oh wow, this is incredible
kingkrab1million
lmao now everyone's a separatist all of a sudden
Dares
There were also local police confronting the riot officers brought in from elsewhere.
xDerfelCadarn
Just remember this is an illegal vote. This is just a photo, there is a lot of reasons to this reaction.
CrazyGuyOnABike
Also, Spanish police first had to be moved in because Catalan police refused to uphold national law. There are definitely two sides to this.
mackymc
Just seen a video of the police attacking the firemen
JohnEsco
I'm too hot (hot damn) Call the police and the fireman
PinguDolmer
The protestors seems to be the agressive ones here
epyonwing
Viva Catalonia!
epyonwing
Downvotes for what? .....from Spaniards I'm assuming.....
CrazyGuyOnABike
Secession is stupid. It's economic suicide for Catalonia, and justifies further attempts to fragment the EU, which is bad.
DELBER
Europe, where are you? Human rights are not a local matter. What does a country have to do to get you involved? Besides invading Poland.
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themilkmancometh
Inb4 Britain starts financing a rebellion, back to the good ol days of fucking over the continent with subversion.
TheShadowsLengthen
"I'll make my own Spain ! With blackjack ! And hookers !" Catalonia
NoAsBigAsMediumJockButBiggerThanWeeJockJock
Don't forget the tallat
Counterfit
And jai-alai
CrazyGuyOnABike
And economic insolvency!
esquimal
sad day to be a spaniard. shame on our government and police force.
bellapadella
I live in Barcelona and I believe independists were a minority as of this morning,, but things changed today.
Nikolai5
If this gets any worse we'll need to air drop Kendall Jenner in.
Nomulus
I've got a mental image of Kendall Jenner being air dropped like the Hulk and her pulling out a grenade launcher that shoots Pepsi cans.
Wtfmynamewontwork
Dance off? Dance off.
Sheldonian
Ivain
I've said this before, what worries me here is the government blocking a vote. If this was a (potentially violent) separatist protest, (1/x)
Ivain
(2/x) there might be some justification, since it could tear apart the country. However, blocking votes in the way they've been doing is
Ivain
(3/x) practically GUARANTEED to lead to chaos and hate. it smacks of totalitarianism, and that is what worries me. They could let the vote
Ivain
(4/x) proceed, but say that they will not let them separate whatever the outcome. Then if there were to be riots, they'd have just cause
Ivain
(5/5) to react with force and try to suppress things. As it is, they look like the bad guys all over the international media.
CheeseborgarSoop
This should be on the cover of fucking TIME Magazine if they actually stood for anything now.
Periclesdemolay
to show how the crazy nazionalists wants to divide society?
Janusha
Time Magazine that voted Hitler man of the year in 1939. Back when they did stand for something.
CheeseborgarSoop
Everything that FelixG already said.
FelixG
Person of the year is not about them being a good person, just impactful. Which Hitler certainly was.
Janusha
Thats just an excuse created later. USA had a Nazi party back then and was really rather fond of the nazis as an ideology.
Janusha
http://www.vintag.es/2016/07/fascism-in-usa-pictures-of-american.html Here is a picture of a US Nazi rally at the same year.
definitelynotawolf
Not enough people understand this
Janusha
This is what not enough people understand.http://www.vintag.es/2016/07/fascism-in-usa-pictures-of-american.html USA kinda liked the nazis.
quintusfontane
And to be fair, Hitler DID do a lot of good for Germany. Y'know, BEFORE the death squads, the war, the genocide, the total ruination...
Janusha
He didnt really get into real power until he started war mongering. But USA had a Nazi party back then and were really interested in nazis.
Janusha
Here is a picture of a Madison Square Nazi rally to a full house. http://www.vintag.es/2016/07/fascism-in-usa-pictures-of-american.html
Dimi64
Wait, what's this about?
mormacil
peaceful voters instead of just ignoring the illegal vote. 3/3
mormacil
even if illegal. Federal government relieves local police, sends MPs and forcefully closes voting stations, then uses rubber bullets on 2/3
mormacil
Catalonia wants a referendum about independence/secession. Federal government declares it illegal. State says it will go ahead anyway 1/2
GoddammitMrNoodle
Firemen should have brought their axes.
Arkkeri
They wanted to vote, not fight.
GoddammitMrNoodle
Sometimes getting the right to vote takes a fight.
ImaginaryEli
They gotta fight, for the right to democracyyy
RichardLeonard
Is this about the wine mixer?
Tharagincajun
Take your upvote
dirkmcdirk
The fucking Catalina wine mixer!
HilldodgerActual
It's a fucking Catalina wine mixer......
MajorPubes
Prestige Worldwide!!
FBKatB3TAdotcom
Boats n hoe's
lovecraftbeer
Shroomslapz
Are you saying PAN?
lurkymcderp
BWAAAAA-HA-HAA-HA-HAA-HA-HAAA!
Fuckingdalmasindahouse
https://youtu.be/o8T095mFdW8
IDeclareBANKRUPTCYYYY
What else would it be about?
squintish
Catalina (Channel Islands, California) not Catalonia
UniKornzRainBowz
squintish
I'm touching your drums.
UniKornzRainBowz
i WiLL sTaB yOu iN tHe NeCk WiTh a kNiFe!!
Benjimaen
The protestors should just givw them some pepsi?
NotTheMamaNotTheMama
Ola ola pepsi cola!
Greatwood
extremeblueness
60FPSDoggo
bepis*
itwasntgayifyouhave20moredollars
beepus*
Winterous
pembis
ButterfaceTaintClown
My abiding memory of the Catalans is they prefer coke.
dvcalif
Coke and wine mixer
sexyGandalf12
I'll try and get a hold of Kendall
derpflanz
They are not protestors. They are voters.
thisiswhyicanthaveanythingnice
Anyone can be conveniently labeled according to agenda.
Pattttttt7
Both governments are at fault! One for convening an illegal referendum and the other for how they approached the issue.Ashamed of my countr
Pattttttt7
Police brutality nor violence should ever be justified. Every part's at fault! Don't vote sth illegal, don't use minors #CatalanReferendum
CrazyGuyOnABike
Could not have said it better. I'm very anti-referendum, but the way Madrid handled this is despicable.
mormacil
Sure but the one that uses force against peaceful people is also shameful on top of being at fault. Federal government is a true disgrace.
Pattttttt7
I agree that's why I said that Police brutality nor violence should ever be justified.
meritage
lived in Catalonia and agree with the right to independence but this is illegal vote called without government authority. pic has no context
mormacil
So a poll under the wrong name?
meritage
local government holding it against gov recommendations. allowed to print off ballot at home to bring in. how many would you print off?
mormacil
Recommendations aren't law, so the voting is flawed? It's not legal to begin with so who cares? No excuses for rubber bullets.
meritage
people are literally fighting to get in to poll stations. police are dealing with it as civil unrest. Things in spain are moving away
meritage
from the strict conservatism of previous decades so to become independent the legal way is now realistic.
mormacil
The fighting only started after the cops used violence today. It's not civil unrest if you just try to avoid police violence.
FatDaddyDoobs
FDNY & NYPD have had a rivalry for a century already & they would do this just out of spite as much as principle. Wonder if this is similar
AngryHumanoid
It's because they frequently compete for the same funds and conflict over who had authority over a scene in what kind of situation.
GothmogLordofBalrogs
More if State police vs FDNY
cityguy1170
Wrong. NYPD and FDNY has had a friendly rivalry much like brothers or sisters have. But when SHTF, they have each others' backs.
Noob3rts
I feel that this is accurate for most local PD & FD. They'll crack jokes at each other but when the time comes, they'll be by their sides.
WelcomeToTheShatterdome
Was just thinking that. It's the same in my city. We crack jokes at each other, but will always have their back. We know they'll have ours.
Knivz
This.
Skulties1
This isn't about a rivalry, this is about independence
thanatos777
One would hope. The NYPD are cunts.
Yanov
Well the police in the photo aren't really the police, they're the "Civil Guard". The local police, Mossos, have largely sided with voters.
TheFrenchCanadianTaunter
Spanish Civil Guard = US National Guard, Italian Carabinieri or French Gendarmerie?
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d0o0o0d
Sounds kinda like the FBI. Basically cops with federal jurisdiction.
SIRTOXIC13
And then the cops beat the firefighters down https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/914473277443031041
SnickerMyKnickers
Oh for fuck's sake
IAmDrBanner
They have used metal batons to beat the elderly, I am not surprised they would beat the firefighters.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
Someone should set fire to the police department and see who's left to help them
TormentedPenguin
yeah.. perfect time for the film to NOT show any CONTEXT. What happened before the scuffle..why did the cops stop after a perimeter was set?
SIRTOXIC13
Who starts filming before something happens? Infinite storage and battery life in cellphones/cameras?
TormentedPenguin
lots of people.. are you saying your phone can only film in 10sec intervals.. people edit to only show what they want.. not the context
SIRTOXIC13
Lots of people film nothing happening? Are they clairvoyant?
uoeno
God damn it.
Skulties1
Those firemen are protecting and serving the citizens
SergeantMajorSpoiler
...by enabling an unconstitutional and illegal referendum? Sure.
mormacil
So it's not legally binding but a poll, what laws are being broken here? Stop perpetuating rubbish propaganda.
Arkkeri
So USA should be part of England still. It was illegal vote. (Then again they beat english asses, when english though their vote illegal.)
hassanshihabkarim19350
Normally I'm for keeping countries together but Spain is acting like a tyrannical government. And it's a shit country anyways.
Mayonnaiseisainstrument
By protecting peaceful people from violent ones.
Skulties1
Exactly
raminagrobis
It's incredible how imgurians take sides without knowing anything except from a picture. Talk about easily manipulated.
Skulties1
I have been following what's going on and know a little about catalonia's history
definitelynotawolf
Because we all get our news just from this website of course. There's no way anyone could have done some actual research
KingOfTheAnarchists
That’s a hell of a picture.
Globerunner513
Pulitzer kind of stuff right there
GrammerPoliceABC
REMASTERD EDITION.
SirLyonhart
The video of the cops beating the firemen is also a hell of a scene. Cops need to understand they don't have the right to do this.
Matrelith
It's one of those pictures that'll be used in high school history books in a few years. History in the making here.
happytreeleaf
The Catalan people must be starving and oppressed by a dictatorship. No, wait.. that’s Venezuela.
Lavengro
Or any other of hundreds of regions in the world. So what's your point exactly?
Estbgti
Haha yeah, fuck those pansy ass Catalonians. Venezuelans have it worse so therefore Catalonians don't have any issues at all.
0Dusya
The only real problem in Catalonia is that it receives less than it should due to its GDP. Plot twist: In Madrid happens the same. (1/2)
0Dusya
Politicians should be working, but instead citizens are fighting each other... (2/2).
kirst
People are shocked by the disproportionate response in what should be a "modern democracy". Not saying venezuela should be forgotten
happytreeleaf
Except this is mob democracy.
happytreeleaf
What I mean is, Catalans pretty much forced the government to stop this. The pictures will make copy, but it’s no Venezuela. You’ll go 1/2
happytreeleaf
Back to your homes, jobs and live comfortably, protected by law and order. This is low on the list of things the world needs to give a shit
oStaiko
Tbh a difficult one too. I doubt they posed for that, so a citizen getting in there would be risky
GrammerPoliceABC
Remasterd edition
steikewaffel
protect the protectors?
TimmehCaster
So much going on, so many emotions and feelings.
NoForethought
such wow
NoForethought
sorry
lordofhouselurker
Wonder who would win though. Police or firefighters. $20 on the firefighters
SamIAmRamTam
Uh riot gear vs fireproof clothing.. I’ll take that bet sir/madam/whatever you want to identify as!
DontLookAtMePenis
I'll take that action, let's triple it
HarazhanGFsphone
@lordofhouselurker 50€ on the police. And @DontLookAtMePenis will be the one keeping the money until the end of this bet.
DontLookAtMePenis
I'm taking his bet, so I'm saying I got money on the police
icouldbeworkingrightnow
They have axes....
ChickenFingersYT
Police have guns....
Veiktrikis
Firemen have a +3 in "carry humanoid" as a class bonus. Plenty of protestors to use as shields..
TimmehCaster
Whatever happens, the public would lose.
koopaya
The public always loses...
OriginalNameDoNotSteal
...until the public rises... *puts on Bane mask*
downofathistle
Yeah, the police beat the shit out of the firemen shortly after this.
slightlyugly
Did the firemen respond with a water canon? Because they could and that would be so sensational if it did happen.
mulligylan
Just lance them with the fucking pike poles
slightlyugly
Sure, whatever works.
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evanmsmith6924
I'd be going to jail if I were that fireman getting pushed around.
LynxMcCoy
Dafuq???
AH0TE
That's extremely disconcerting to watch.
Thatsnothowthisworks
It really is.
WhyEvenName
Its a harsh time
pineapplepunch
.
Barrycontrary
And then the police started beating the shit out of them. Really.
KyleG410
Unidad?
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thecakefartisalie
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go rutten beat you with till you realize who is in command here "
TormentedPenguin
Most of the "beatings" were from people trying to force their way past police. Get beat.. get famous.. do it with kids to get money!
BronzeLeaguePro
Firefighters fought the law and the law won?
WhiteIce2112
I fought the law and the, law won.
DutchyMcDutch
Good, what they're doing is illegal.
DrzBa42
Spain should really check EU Commission Article 7. They've just violated it. Badly.
DutchyMcDutch
What the catalan government is doing is against the constitution
DrzBa42
Does that then make it ok to go in with the billy clubs?
DutchyMcDutch
Yes, the were blocking the way to the illegal polling station. When you are told to leave: leave, or you will be forcibly removed.
AustriaNotAustralia
Its not the official police. Its some state financed para military. The real police even protected the protestors
blazera
that's what police are tho
noneofyourbussiness
Police are meant to assault civilians and firemen?
mormacil
We got a similar system, here they do border patrols, royal protection and military police duties.
xDerfelCadarn
You are lying... These policemen in photo are Guardia CIviles, they are a branch of army, they are not paramilitar...
AustriaNotAustralia
I didnt lie. I just made a translation mistake. Here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Guard_(Spain)
MoepsDump
The "real" Catalonien police was relived of their duties by the Spanish government... not like they would care.
MisterLemons
Nothing like good ol government having too much power.
CarryKnuts
Good ol' Govy
iliketoanswerwithreactions
Doesn't mewn the ex-police won't stop standing up for the people.
Skawomplious
Do you have a link to more info on this?
MaceAries
They should blasted them with the fire hose!
thecakefartisalie
And this is why you don't give military equiptment to the police.
mormacil
That's the military police though, they relieved the regular local police of their duties.
thecakefartisalie
Thank you, I'm American. They are in a uniform very similar to our police swat units. I assumed it was the same.
mormacil
Possibly, US has this weird seperation between police and the military. In my country we have no SWAT. Just special forces aiding the police
RememberTheC4nt
And that's how you turn a vote in a violent revolution I guess
stormegedendarklordofall
Until the firefighters get brutally beaten
lifny
That already happened
HitlersArtCritic
Well, it already is a violent revolution. They got their asses kicked.
steikewaffel
I don't think you know what a violent revolution is... this would merely be the first step. people tend to be peaceful until met with BS.
HitlersArtCritic
What do you call this?
adriedupoldprune
I call it oppression.
lemmefixit
Only the vote is illegal
Torenico
Then why is the Spanish State acting so nervous, if it's illegal.. why not "ignore and continue"?. Always a good excuse to beat people...
mormacil
Illegal votes have no legal meaning, you don't beat those voters... You don't beat peaceful people, period.
Armmigic
You can say whatever you want, they beat people because they want to vote for something :/ .
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Armmigic
The law isn't always rightful, you should know that.
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GiantFlyingDishwasher
Then they should calling themselves a democracy for fuck sake
lemmefixit
I think you meant to write "stop" but it's a democracy when things are done right and within the law. Educate yourself first.
GiantFlyingDishwasher
If the "law" makes voting unlawful, then the country has no right to call itself democratic.
lemmefixit
Check your facts. You're just trying to justify yourself with void words.
mormacil
They still got a right to assembly AND a write to write on pieces of paper. Even if the vote has no legal meaning.
Arkkeri
So you're saying that they are not allowed to decide themselves and their lands don't belong to them?
billyshep
What are Catalonian's looking for Independence? Is it a legitimate claim?
Periclesdemolay
no, it's totally illegal but this is what you get for being ruled by nazionalists for 35 years, search Jordi Pujol you'll see the evil Yoda!
magichal
Independence is rarely a "legitimate" claim according to the power that controls the territory.
mormacil
They have their own culture and language though. It's not just a rich area, they have a distinct culture.
TheRealHMint
Take any random small territory in Europe and it will have it's own culture and language (or dialect) in some way or another.
mormacil
Dialect =/= langauge. They have equal right to independence as well, including those in my own country.
TheRealHMint
You should not fall into the trap of seeing 'them' as a monolithic block. Do we want another 51% disaster, like Brexit?
o11c
Legitimate according to whom? It's certainly popular in Catalonia. Not so much in Spain.
Arkkeri
So civil war?
Telemea
Legitimate according to the human rights, the right to self-determination is a basic one.
FnordGallop
Is it legitimate: no (R.E. the court rulings declaring it illegal). Why: Money: Some Catalonians don't like supporting poorer provinces.
UnrustleYerJimmies
with our taxes. What makes things complicated is the fact that Catalonians were mistreated by Franco many years ago and that resentment 2
UnrustleYerJimmies
exploiting old local wounds in order to keep the money in. It's a shame people are allowing themselves to be misled. 6
UnrustleYerJimmies
comes into play and serves as a moral disguise for the real issue, which is money. The referendum is illegal and shouldn't be supported, 3
UnrustleYerJimmies
but violence should not be used to stop people from voting. Spain can and must paint a grim picture for Catalonians of what the outcome of 4
UnrustleYerJimmies
breaking apart would bring and how it would be a detriment to existing conditions. This is really just a case of the rich in Catalonia 5
UnrustleYerJimmies
Correct! From what I've read, it would be analogous to California attempting to secede from the US in order to stop funding poor states 1
FnordGallop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_National_Party hey. look.
TheLastZombieCat
Welcome to the state of Jefferson (Nor Cal here)
billyshep
California is broke, but i get what you're saying
definitelynotawolf
If California was its own country it would have the world's 5th largest GDP
ThatAssholeOverThere
Yeah but so is everyone else. The taxes collected from California (and other states) help support a lot of the poorer states
AlIYourBaseAreBelongToUs
If it were a true democracy it wouldn't be a problem. The Scots got their vote for example.
lemmefixit
The Scots got their vote via legal, correct means. This is just a temper tantrum thrown by the Catalan president
AlIYourBaseAreBelongToUs
I wonder if the Spanish president will allow a future referendum. Looks to me that that is a big no no.
Snarkoleptic
This is less like Scotland, and more like London deciding to vote to leave the UK. Or Cornwall.
AlIYourBaseAreBelongToUs
I say, let them vote for it!
FnordGallop
Another major point: Scotland is a country within a supranational organization, Catalonia is a province within a country.
DrSparken
Spanish constitution gives provinces independent power. They have the ability to organise such votes, the government above is fighting it.
FnordGallop
Sure. Unfortunate how they were unable to pass a law to cause such a vote to occur, and how the courts declared their actions illegal.
monty82
The Scots got an agreed and legal vote about their independence. Catalonia is running an illegal and unconstitutional vote. Huge difference.
daeda99
I thought the first vote was declared illegal, so this new attempt was to follow legal procedure. Is that not true?
stormegedendarklordofall
The Spanish government's reaction has been less than good though the
monty82
How to react? Independents win if there's a vote or play victim if there's not. It's a lose-lose for the Spanish government whatever they do
adriedupoldprune
Not by beating people and smashing polling stations. If its illegal its not like they would be bound by it anyway.
FnordGallop
I think the political calculus here may well have been correct on the part of the Spanish gov't. Though, it might have been better to just
FerverTorv
Thanks, I didn't know about this. Also, sincere question: how is Spain's action different from Lincoln's refusal to allow state cessation?
mormacil
Same thing really.
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madjackwastaken
A constitution that 95% of those who voted in Catalonia voted for, when it was put to them.
JamesDigby
Only those who are now over 57 years old would've voted in that referendum in '78. Most Catalonians, indeed most Spaniards, have not voted.
madjackwastaken
I'm not sure what your point is? I didn't get a say over the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, that doesn't mean I can ignore it.
JamesDigby
Ignoring the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 and excising a right guaranteed by the UN Charter are hardly comparable
JamesDigby
My point is this. They are excising their right to self determination. The constitution might say one thing, but in this case it is wrong,