Fourhorns23
107375
2093
157
May 13, 2020 8:00 PM
Fourhorns23
107375
2093
157
pastastructure
Ricky Gervais has the gift for saying things which unsettle people -- but are true.
cqoyDiver
Ricky can’t joke about anything
Arenlor
https://xkcd.com/1357/
stiltz85
It's all fun and games until someone gets canceled.
Wasnbo
40-something white dude, back in 2009: "I KNOW IT'S REAL CONTROVERSIAL TO HAVE AN OPINION!!" And that's when I shot him, your honor!
hardytardigrade
Exactly. It's a little odd to hear comedians especially say that some subjects are now off-limits when Lenny Bruce got arrested for swearing
SaunterVaguelyDownward
He should remember that next time he cries on Twitter for a month about how no one can take a joke. Then gets paid to make a show about it.
VesselOfHate
wtf did he tweet this today, this is on the front page TWICE right now
NSAgent
You can joke about anything. AND good comedy punches up, not down AND is also funny. If you punch down and aren’t funny we get to tell you.
azuureth
How dark is my humor? Dark enough to pick cotton.
PennysWorthOfTea
Downvote transphobes
impaledskier
What "joke" gets you kicked out of college?
LetMeSeeMyKids
I don't like this post
Avrgjoe80
Easier to speak freely when you're rich, famous, well-connected....
oldguyexlurker
Apparently this wasn't funny. I certainly hope he doesn't give a fuck about these comments.
MikeGarland
If you tell certain jokes in Canada or the UK they'll put you in jail.
PhilMcrevice
South Park has been teaching this religiously since 1997, I love Ricky but his message comes after Kenny McCormick has died 98 times.
Furiou5
Is this a really new take, or maybe a really old one? Because he is constantly upset that people don't like his jokes; IIRC he literally(1)
Furiou5
said "you can't joke about anything anymore" within the last year. (2)
FresherAndMintier
Bold thing to post on Imgur. Gonna really trigger the front page crew, offended by something 99.9% of the time.
CaptainSlower
Timing is key
erikleorga
Part of the reason I love Jimmy Carr.
BonyCephalopod
Outrage culture. Amirite?
yeahiheardaboutpluto
And what the hell do you mean by that!? HARUMPH!!
MandrewJackson
Ironically there's a lot of outrage about it in these comments.
NarratorDurden
Recreational Outrage, the new pastime of the internet
ZuSanLiHeGu
Except ;augh about Biden or Obama on Imgur. You can't.Proof : look at this comments score .
DisgruntledFerret
...As of this comment, you're at 1. No one gave a hoot one way or the other. Let's see if posterity makes a fool of me.
ZuSanLiHeGu
Admit this site is not pro Trump
NeoBaggins
This objectively isn’t true. Look at Kevin Hart. People won’t stop at telling you why they don’t like it. They actively seek to punish you.
jukelikeyouknow
Kevin Hart seems to be more than fine, still doing well today.
MandrewJackson
Not sure the example of a successful comedian and movie star makes the point you're trying to make.
NeoBaggins
No matter how long ago you told the joke, or in what context. Not matter how much evidence there is that you’ve changed since saying it.
Zonga
So die, maybe? Although that Rob's people of the pleasure of torturing you, I suppose.
tyger87
Technically he can still say it, which I think was tye point of the post, it's just at what cost are you willing to pay for it.
NeoBaggins
He acts like there’s no risk. Like it’s kindergarten and you can just ignore them. Kind of hard to do when people are beating on your door
tyger87
I agree, he makes it seem like you can so casually brush it aside, when it's not so easy
ThatNoPicklePeeThatNoPumpARum
Ironic thing. He has the free speech to say what he wants. People have the free speech to be mad about it, and to take action against it.
ThatNoPicklePeeThatNoPumpARum
Companies have the right to not employ people who say horrible things too.
NeoBaggins
Free speech isn’t action. Also, credible threats of violence and dissemination of private info are illegal.
NeoBaggins
@ThatNoPicklePeeThatNoPumpARum I tried to dumb it down to your level, but you blocked me. Thanks for proving my point, I guess.
ThatNoPicklePeeThatNoPumpARum
Thats a nice reply that has no relation to what I said at all. Thanks for proving me right I guess.
broutefoin
it's a nice sentiment, but not everyone has "fuck you money" to insulate themselves from most consequences of relentless malice driven mobs.
Dionysus187
Yep, no ones worried about getting yelled back at but for their practical life being negatively impacted as 'punishment'
06yzfR6
Exactly
MandrewJackson
Where are all these mobs? People yelling on Twitter might hurt your feelings, but if that's a consequence then it's a proportional one.
broutefoin
people trying to ruin someone else's life because they said something dumb or offensive is way beyond disproportional.
buttwheek
Yeah you don’t want to be in the crosshairs
broutefoin
I respect him and Chappelle for standing, but this is akin to jumping out a plane with a parachute, while asking others to jump without one.
Zonga
Sounds hilarious.
WigglrButtsGames
Not if people are getting fired it.
Dagordae
Are they being fired by the government? No? Then the 1st Amendment doesn’t apply. Read it. Actually read the entire Bill of Rights. It’s
Dagordae
Pretty clear about what the protections apply to. To sum up: It’s the government. Private organizations can do whatever they want, hence the
Dagordae
Addition of various anti-discrimination laws. Because there’s another right involved: the right of association. Which is just as important.
tyger87
Freedom of speech means I can tell my boss to screw off, but it doesn't protect me from getting fired. I think people forget that when you /
WigglrButtsGames
The numbers of people who demanded an actor to be removed from a movie or show for a joke they made on that cancer Twitter
WigglrButtsGames
That Kevin hart guy made a joke and was “fired” from the Oscars. It has happened to other people. So yeah
Dagordae
A shock comedian being pulled from consideration for a wide appeal show? Shocking. Well, not shocking at all. The shocking part was that he
Dagordae
Was considered in the first place. And that the Oscars gave him an out so he could host, which he blew off until it expired. Turns out you
Dagordae
Shouldn’t play hardball with someone who has less to lose than you, crazy how that works.
tyger87
Get hired, you agree to the terms and rules of behavior for that organization. First amendment pertains to the fact that no legal action /
tyger87
Can be brought down on someone for properly exercising those rights properly.
Wonkable
Even George Carlin said it back 20 years ago in relation to Andrew Dice Clay. Don't be an asshole and punch down. Be offensive to power.
Ornado
Fuck you ill punch down and be offensive to power. YOU DONT KNOW ME T_T
SubtleOrc
Offensive humour works much better when you're offensive towards those in power or with privilege. Beat down humour can go very wrong
Wonkable
https://youtu.be/F8yV8xUorQ8
MikeGarland
You know the people that you can't make fun of, they have the power.
GendouLovesDucklings
To determine the true rulers of any society, all you must do is ask yourself this question: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?
LarvaLamp
So... we're ruled by minorities?
GendouLovesDucklings
According to Nazis, yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Alfred_Strom
LarvaLamp
You know, the more I learn about these nazi fellows, the more I don't care for them.
GendouLovesDucklings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Alfred_Strom
Trelkeen
EXCEPT in Europe and places in Canada where speech is punishable under the criminal law system
DispleasedLurker
Fuck those places.
derzulya
Make a joke about holocaust in Germany to see if you can make jokes about everything. I dare you.
YourLatinLover
I mean, the same rule still applies, just with greater consequences
Trelkeen
Well there is a difference in someone saying they don't like your joke and being arrested for it
YourLatinLover
But you can still do it
Trelkeen
If gov. force/threat of violence and imprisonment doesn't violate freedom of speech in your mind, i'm curious what does cross the line?
YourLatinLover
What?? All I’m saying is, whether it be illegal or not, you can still make a joke about anything.
andre35000
Sure, unlike China, North Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and other bastions of civil liberties
Trelkeen
Is this your defense? Other places are worse therefore our civil rights oppression is good.
andre35000
No, I’m just saying that it’s weird that you’re calling out NA and W Europe only
Trelkeen
Because the countries you named are openly accepted as oppressors while the ones i named act as if they don't when they do
ShawnTomac
Oh please. We have freedom of expression. Its honestly a better system
MyleKeville
To be clear, It is not common practice in Canada, but rather one time that ppl like to hang their hat on.
broutefoin
precedent is a dangerous thing in law, one is too many.
Trelkeen
To be fair it isn't ALL of Canada but Ontario current has compelled speech laws that are active to this very moment.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
No they definitely do not.
Trelkeen
They absolutely do, i'm happy to provide you direct sources to the law
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Please do, this should be good.
metlguy2
Hate speech isn't humour to anyone.
tyger87
I want to start off by saying I do NOT condone hate speech in any way or form, but you are wrong if you don't think some psycho jerk /
tyger87
Racist doesn't like racist jokes.
metlguy2
The issue is more political. That's the "right" thinks they can say what they want without repercussions. Both sides aren't equal.
LarvaLamp
Unless it's a funny joke.
ObliqueRay
Europe is a continent with over 40 different countries on it, each with its own legal system.
yourfriendlyneighbourhoodtzimisce
Hate speech and speech that incites or threatens violence.
grendelgetskilledinthend
The problem is, who gets to decide what constitutes hate speech? I for one don’t want the government officially doing it. That path can 1/2
grendelgetskilledinthend
lead places we don’t want to go. Re-education camps spring to mind.
goldensnapper
I think this is on place where America and the rest of the western world really differ culturally each group just sees this differently.
neddyhill
muh constutooshun..!
Trelkeen
Hate speech is disgusting, evil, awful but still protected speech. Such vile speech should be defeated by society NOT using government force
HarunAlSindar
In most of Europe Government is elected by the society. A society that's thinks it's smart to class hate speech as a hate crime
Trelkeen
Here is a question then. Do you believe there are some civil rights that should NOT be subject to the will of the people?
ImNotSureWhatAGoodUserNameIsSoThisWillHaveToDo
Members of government are elected for a wide array of opinions, not just their opinion on one topic such as speech.
wiltsjunk
Agreed. If it's not inciting violence, you can't pick and choose what's ok to say and what isn't. Teach people not to hate.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
In Canada hate speech is only illegal when it's publicly said, meant to incite hatred, *and* likely to incite a breach of the peace. All /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
three of those have to be met. It's a high bar. Basically you have to be out there trying to start actual fighting among people. /2
Trelkeen
It depends on the province. In Ontario for example they have compelled speech laws.
Jordinatinglybeautiful
Let’s apply your freedom of speech in practice. Please walk into an airport and shout ‘I have a bomb’. Just tell them it was a joke.
royce101st
Its just a prank bro
TheBadDad
Freedom of speech only means the government can’t arrest you for criticizing it. That’s all. People think it applies in all communications
Trelkeen
I don't think you quite understand the difference between these things. Not being insulting, just saying.
Jordinatinglybeautiful
Enlighten me.
bayesiancuttlefish
Enlighten yourself. Let Popehat help you. https://legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/make-no-law/
Trelkeen
Sure, there is a difference between a statement of hatred and a call to violence. Example "Kill that man" *points at person A* and
Trelkeen
"Kill all men" (twitter/tumbler trending). Similarly there is a difference between saying "someone should throw a bomb at those idiots
murderhobbit
And in the US. Many things are not legal to say, like harmful lies (slander), threats, fraudulent emergencies, hate speech
UglyHorribleGrouchyOldMan
Slander and threats are civil infractions.
LrrrRulerofThePlanetOmicronPerseiVIII
Depends on the threat, many are criminal in nature
UglyHorribleGrouchyOldMan
With a decent attorney and a willingness to take it up through the courts, you can get them dismissed.
LrrrRulerofThePlanetOmicronPerseiVIII
Yes, all the people convicted for making bomb threats and the like just had bad lawyers, sure
tyger87
Hate speech by definition is allowed in the US, because hate speech does not have a legal definition in the US.
murderhobbit
*Googles* well dang
murderhobbit
I guess technically hate speech isn't a hate crime in that regard
tyger87
Not dissagreeing with extra punishment for hate crimes but the term always baffles me. Aren't the crimes by definition ones of hate? Lol
LordSyphilis
I have a French friend who regularly says how much Americans take our speech rights for granted.
Trelkeen
Americans really do. The problem is most Americans haven't traveled or lived other places like I have and seen how lucky we are in that area
DevonGronka
I'm not saying other systems are better, just that there should be a bit of balance here.
DevonGronka
On the other hand we give advertisers free reign to harass people with mailings and phone calls under the guise of "free speech". My wife1/2
DevonGronka
(from Brazil) was like, if a company did that down there they would be in some shit. Especially the letters that try to look like some 2/3
DevonGronka
kind of official government document but are just trying to sell you a car warrantee or some crap.
usernamethatsstillavailable
I mean I don't feel all that oppressed over here. I don't go"Oh I wish I could publicly deny the holocaust or call an ehtnic group subhuman"
usernamethatsstillavailable
And even if you're a racist asshole, you can get away with quite a lot, and even get elected.
Trelkeen
The point isn't what the power is specifically being used against, it's that the power is specifically being used against any speech
ROHBAUCOP
Only hate speech and holocaust negation. I can really live with that.
goldensnapper
I can live with that too.
heyitssnowing
But you can still joke about them.
tryingtoohard
in PL, where holocaust negation is indeed illegal, it is also illegal to be part of the Nazi party but also the Communist party. From a his-
tryingtoohard
torical point of view, I understand where they are coming from. As not-a-Pole, I am upset that belonging to a political party is illegal--
tryingtoohard
bc this would be a MAJOR free speech issue in the US. (PL, where i live, US, where I grew up)
superseriouscomments
In Germany it's not only hate speech and denying the holocaust but also simple insults like calling someone an asshole that gets you fined.
ROHBAUCOP
Where is the problem? In Germany, you are even allowed to retaliate for a personal insult, as an act self defense.
ROHBAUCOP
*of
superseriouscomments
For one thing what counts as an insult is a very subjective decisions by the judge. Moreover: Acting like an asshole is largely not illegal
superseriouscomments
but calling someone an asshole who behaves like on is illegal. I think that's weird.
nevernoped
Define hate speech
ROHBAUCOP
A court has to rule wether it is a personal insult, a call for illegal actions or a threat. They decide wisely, and you can appeal.
nevernoped
Being a bit liberal with the word “wisely” lol
DrDeRoo
Teaching your girlfriends dog to salute to heil Hitler.
nevernoped
Nah that’s just shits n gigs, intent matters
DrDeRoo
We'll count Dankula did it and was fined £800 soo...
fuhsmc
This. Hate speech isn't crystal clear; as what would define it to one person wouldn't necessarily define it to another.
ROHBAUCOP
A court will rule if it is punishable or not. Then, there will be the chance for appeal. Up to the European Court for Human Rights.
fuhsmc
Well that's there. Here across the pond it's a lot more subjective.
LarvaLamp
Not a holocaust denier myself, but I always thought it was strange that it's illegal to deny history. I'm mean, you're wrong, but illegal?
ROHBAUCOP
it’s not an opinion to deny holocaust.
LarvaLamp
Right. However, being wrong about history shouldn't be a crime. Are we going to punish flat earthers next?
Corona688
Because it's something done in service to threats/intimidation. That's what hate speech amounts to - ethnically directed threat/intimidation
sordatos
The end game of neo Nazis is to make the Holocaust as not a big deal thus being able to do it again.
moeojelly
Yeah I've noticed it's not denial more questioning the numbers now they move their arguments like some type of slime
sordatos
Behind the "Did the Holocaust happen?" There is the question: "Are Jews ( and other minorities) even human?""
LarvaLamp
True, but should simply asking that question be illegal? Treating them as less then human, sure, but thoughtcrime?
PresidentCamacho0
You could make the same argument about communism (which has killed a lot more people than nazism by the way) but you can wear a shirt with
PresidentCamacho0
the sickle and hammer or say shit like Stalin was a great guy and the fact that he killed 20 million russians in gulags fake news and nobody
sordatos
Is not the same, Stalin was a mass murderer indeed but in hate and genocide is not in the DNA of communism, whereas it is in Nazism
YurgenGrimwood
It's because the intent is to "wash away" the sins of Hitler and the suffering of Jews. It's like denying slavery.
sordatos
Is worst since as awful as it sounds slavery had the end of free labor, Nazism was simply about white exterminating "undesirables"
LarvaLamp
Which still, while wrong, shouldn't be illegal.
AllThingsHotRod
Shouldn't be illegal because why?
YurgenGrimwood
Maybe. I'm not particularly against that specifically to be illegal but I do see the grey area where this could be abused later.
Trelkeen
Problem is things like that are never static. It's always a growing list of unacceptable speech...10 years ago it wasn't pronouns. Do you
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Pronouns aren't hate speech in Canada.
Trelkeen
They aren't in most of Canada, Ontario is the exception
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Untrue. I live in Ontario and that is not the case. Also, if you're talking about the bill that Jordan Peterson had a hissy fit about, /1
Trelkeen
really make the claim that this list will never be expanded now that they have the have taken the freedom away?
donthaveonebrojustlurk
As a Canadian, my freedom is dispensed in specific rights by HRM. They may be withdrawn at her leisure.
nowwhowhat
This is true everywhere. Rights only exist insofar as they can be guaranteed.
Corona688
It's a growing list of ways people have devised to threaten religious or ethnic groups with violence. That's what hate speech amounts to.
nowwhowhat
Using the wrong pronouns isn't against the law. Harassing people is.
Trelkeen
This is true in most of Canada but Ontario is the exception where your statement is false.
nowwhowhat
No, it's still false in Ontario, too. Jordan Peterson lied to you.
MadOatmeal
This might just be a slippery slope fallacie. Just because you do A, does not mean you will end up at X.
broutefoin
precedent in law is a dangerous thing, and slippery slope arguments aren't automatically fallacious.
Trelkeen
Well yes and no, civil rights are and should be protected from oppression....no matter how said oppression is justified. The response was
Trelkeen
well we are ONLY oppressing these few things so that's acceptable oppression. I was explaining WHY i'm opposed it in general
YurgenGrimwood
If you want to live in a well functioning society there will always be SOME oppression in one way or another.