SailorJimmy
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I served from 2005-2013. I did 4 years and change in 7th Fleet (Pacific Asia) and both ships were Flight I DDGs. (Same model as the Fitz and Johnny Mac)
Saw this post on the front page with a lot of comments not fully understanding how these things work.
Here's the thing, we do see them. but seeing isn't moving. You have ships that weigh several dozen tons. Newton's law that an object in motion will stay in motion. The more it weighs, the longer it takes for it to move, slow down or stop.
These are the Straits of Malacca in Singapore. It is a navigational nightmare due to the high amount of congestion and relatively shallow depths. It's not just 1 tanker and 1 warship, it's several others
Here's a better view, and trust me it never looked this orderly.
Think about it like this. You have a 10 lane highway, with semis barreling down both ways and you're on a motorcycle. You have mobility and speed, but if you veer in one direction, you might get hit by another, and a 100 ton tanker will come out with barely a scratch while you're totaled.
"BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THE RADARS!"
Again; seeing, predicting where it's going to move, and you moving are different things. The radars on ships are often rotational, ping the first thing hit, then returns. If something was in the way, running almost parallel, while the tanker was Hypothetically on a perpendicular cross (Called "pointing" in TMA terms) they would not have recognized it.
Also, most likely they were in "Emission Control" turning off most equipment that has emits certain frequencies. This is an operational security thing. We don't want other countries getting that information then developing weapons to bypass it our systems. Also, AEGIS emits a shit of radiation. Dead birds all the time on the missile deck.
And yes, I know this picture is from a carrier, but I can't find a decent SPS-67 photo with enough pixels.
"SO THE RUSSIANS/CHINESE/SAYIANS HACKED US?!"
Not likely
Look at that equipment right there. Most of our shit is still analog. One reason is because the Navy is cheap as fuck, but also because they're closed systems. Digital electronics rely on microchips to do their job to rely information. Microchip fails, system can fuck up as it would send wrong signals, doubtful as there are fail safes, but the chip is performing dozens of tasks. Analog components, as in those old timey resistors, have one job to do and are influenced by everything else in the chain.
Also, something something "Nuclear EMP" but that shits too advance for me.
"BUT HOW COME THEY COLLIDED?!"
Initial reports state they lost steering on the bridge (It could be caused by a lot of things, from a faulty pump, to a filter getting clogged, or just because it was moody) and had to use the back up in Aft Steering. The bridge, (Pictured here) is the only place that has clear vision, as the ship is kinda made of steel since they haven't made transparent steel rated for missile hits yet.
Meaning Aft Steering had to navigate blind with only radio instruction. Now combine that with my 10 lane highway with coked up Semi-Drivers, 100 ton ship, minimal navigation, and yeah, that's how you have a tragedy.
Navy life is tough. We're on minimal sleep doing high risk evolutions. I don't doubt there was human error involved, but to shit talk something you have no knowledge, experience, or background in; well, that's just ignorant and rude.
17 sailors have died on the last two collusions and the Fitzgerald was barely able to get back into port on their own. If the crew was as incompotent as some people suggest, that number would've been a lot higher.
There isn't any doubt the crew busted their ass to save their shipmates and their ship.
Boob tax
Sorry for the rant.
TallForAStormtrooper
"Transparent steel rated for missle hits".... So they have made transparent steel? Is it jet fuel resistant? What are they not telling us!
m053486
Nice write-up. Spending a week on the Hopper out of Pearl was enough to reinforce that I wanted nothing to do with SW life...y'all crazy.
Lokiswifesigyn
Thank you for your explanation and your service. I was in 2007 to 2011 on CVN69.
Brasswhale
AEGIS can kill birds? Holy fuck, now I know why they are so hardcore about not energizing equipment while people are aloft.
iHighjinx
I understand that they can't steer away but why are sailor on the side that gets hit? Can't they just move to the other side of the ship?
scarscantstopme
Totally agree, thanks for the write up. Former swo on Fitz, there's way more going on than 2 ships colliding. It's a tough job out there.
SailorJimmy
My first ship was the Fitz... Now I'm afraid to continue talking. I swear I didn't plant anything in your state room!
scarscantstopme
Hahahaha, what happens in 7th fleet stays in 7th fleet. :)
TekDragon
If they saw it coming, why weren't the at-risk sections evacuated either time?
ashipthatshipsshippingships
Can confirm. I can't steer around shit.
morbidcurioffulous
Well, that must weigh several dozen tons!
ImpulseVX
Username checks out
Flodos
When you reach the level of meta in a fandom where you start to ship shippers.
LooseyGooseyBrett
DodgethisMF.jpg
Totallyscrewedinaustin
Oo a shipping ship shipping shipping ships!
Kongur
They did not lose steering, come om. Thats just dumb. Being military we will never know the truth.
GasBandit
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but FOUR TIMES in two months is bad training, imo.
iownno4
This is very well put. However your scale is a little low. I'm on a T-AKE (the ships that send the navy their food), and we're 40,000 tons.
Thatllbuffrightout
Regardless of opinion, I think we can all agree that would be scary as fuck
SailorJimmy
Imagine the horror of drowning in the dark inside a metal compartment. Yeah.
tasmo
"Emissions control" Then why not install a separate commercial navigation radar for peacetime use? Not exactly rocket science.
AndrewHollenbeck
Civies like to default to military incompetence.
Jomini001
Thank you for making this post.
CHiLL562
Fucking hated having to-do moboards during straits details. Dumbass new surfaces...
TwoReds
Have they made transparent steel at all?
superfeathers
I served on the USS CVN fuckyfuck, and I'd like to thank you for your service, shipmate.
TheDreadPirateRobots
I'm no sailor, but I'm pretty sure oil tankers weight more than "several dozen tons." Maybe OP was thinking of his mom?
AeroEngineer
So do the Navy ships.
TheOneTrueDave
Points well made. Massive props to you for writing that.
byteme8bit
Doesn't change the fact that SOMEONE fucked up and most/all of the COs are getting reprimanded
DasMutt
What about AIS? That's emcon-neutral and would give them the position, heading, speed, tonnage, and a bunch of other metadata from vessels
harveybirdmansolicitoratlaw
My though as well. There is no "civivy" version of radar on that thing?
SailorJimmy
AFAIK, no. It's some wartime thing to make sure we're not disguised as merchants or something, but I could be wrong, I'm not a radar guy
harveybirdmansolicitoratlaw
Thanks OP. I can't think of a simple way to disguise it as q-ship. In any case I'm not an expert.
SailorJimmy
We have IFF, but I think that's receive only? It's been like 10 years since I got my ESWS pin so there's a very good chance I'm wrong.
DasMutt
IFF is send/receive, but can operate in either mode independently. AIS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_identification_system
mrsanf
@OP I don't believe you, they probably wanted to fight a lighthouse again but this time it was a tanker.
SailorJimmy
That's just an urban myth and joke. http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthouse.asp
mrsanf
No, no, that's true.
ThatBearintheWoods
Both the Fitz and McCain are flight 1 destroyers. Source, 5 years in Yoko on the McCampbell. Good read otherwise.
SailorJimmy
Corrected, thanks for the heads up Petty Officer Shipmate! =D
ThatBearintheWoods
It's all good brother! Seperated after 10 years, a year ago. Living that civilian life right now.
BigBadBillyBoy
You provided two photos of mooring fields when talking about traffic. What was your job?
SailorJimmy
It's hard as hell to find clear picture of actual motion, so instead I showed congestion on how many ships there actually are.
SailorJimmy
And Sonar Tech. I was either below decks on the Fatho and tracking broadband contacts or on the SCAT team topside sweating my balls off.
FrustratedBluffing
You seem to have a strange impression of the masses of ships. A 100 tonne tanker would be tiny.
SailorJimmy
Look, man, I didn't have a scale on me! and Janes was useless since they didn't have the narrowband tonals.
TheBritfag
It's got nothing to do with scales. It's as equivalent as stating a CR2 weighs 30 tonnes.
FrustratedBluffing
And the ships are "dozens of tonnes" they're usually hundreds and thousands.
FrustratedBluffing
For example a British type 23 frigate is in the ball park of 5000 tonnes
SailorJimmy
Dude, they kept me in a dark room with blue lights and a green screen. I only smoked to see the sun once in a while, I didn't even enjoy it!
TRobinson91
The penultimate picture is a RAS (Replenishment at sea). Seriously, fuck being the helmsman during that. Nerve racking
modus0
For added stress, try being the helmsman for one happening on the edge of a typhoon.
HereForTheSurpriseMeat
Or Conn, or OOD, or CO, or OPS, or line handlers, or aft steering...
Dreigiau
or Throttleman, or PPWO
TRobinson91
Pretty much, just hope it's not on your watch, so you can sleep through it haha. Why I love the 4-8 watch, quiet afternoon, and graveyard.
fractalsphere
Good info and write-up. Isn't two US warships colliding and out of service so close together suspicious tho?
PopeyeTheSailor
khora
Random events can appear to be non-random, otherwise they wouldn't be random.
Dontbestupidjustbecauseitseasy
Say random again, mother fucker. I dare you, I double dare you, say random 1 more God damn time...
thecheesedip
https://nyti.ms/2vU9bcq Article about the Vice Admiral they just sacked. But, he was set to retire in 1 month so... scapegoat, probably.
Dreigiau
4 major incidents in 8 months across 4 ships, two involving loss of life and a ship combat ineffective? The admiral's getting sacked.
thecheesedip
Call me cynical, but "removing" someone who was already on their way out sounds like pure optics. I'd bet he still gets his full rank & pay.
Dreigiau
You have a guy working for you, he's three mo. from his 65th birthday and retirement. He crashes a company car thru the front door. What do?
CanUweldOil
It's not just two, there have been 4 in the last year, a huge part is training, the Navy has been cutting corners recently.
SailorJimmy
Yep, and I said, 7th fleet was relieved of duty. All these incidents are in the Pacific in different areas. Piss poor training I suppose
ScienceGoneTooFar
From what I've heard it was the tempo that is most likely the cause
DeckhandAdmiral
Thats the current rumor coming from the mills. Massive lack of proper training for brass resulting in poorly trained crews.
Tassyr
Is it possible/probable that this just sunk someone's career?
SailorJimmy
Several people's career. The big 3 (CO/XO/CMC) were relieved of duty, their higher ups as well. (7th Fleet, Commodore of DESRON15)
causality
Security theater is rotting the US military from the inside. Having 100 helicopters with 30% readiness over 80 helicopters with 75%, etc.
causality
Constant patrols that accomplish fuck-all instead of a trained and prepared fleet able to respond to actual combat.
Tassyr
Er. No pun intended.
mischrys
Just own that pun. You know you want to.
Kargathia
You shouldn't crash a good pun like that.
HereForTheSurpriseMeat
To clarify to those that might not know "7th fleet" in this case is a person not the actual fleet. The admiral in charge of C7F was relieved
SailorJimmy
Yeah, Navy's dumb, we address captains and commanders by command they head. Also, our Captians are O-6, and 0-5 and 0-4 if on a minesweeper
billypilgrim7
Is one of those supposed to be an "O"?
SailorJimmy
SHH! No one's noticed
fractalsphere
I heard they were halting operations for a time. Isn't that strategically an issue for the Pacific theater of operations? Was that the goal?
SailorJimmy
What I head they had a stand down for like a day. 3rd fleet is on deployment in the area, so if it's longer than that, they'll take over
fractalsphere
Gotcha. Thanks for the info
AtlanticPENUMBRA
Having redundant fleets is kind of a luxury.
SailorJimmy
World wide presence, ability to respond. Would take a week for 3rd fleet to reach Japan in case of disaster, like during the earthquakes
AtlanticPENUMBRA
OK -- downvote me if you want, but our military is built to be able to fight *two* wars at once, just in case. Fact.
MACGUNS
3rd fleet is in charge of the west coast of North America, they just got doubled up on duties if this is the case.
sightsignificant
Thanks for clearing that up dude. I'm a Marine and I'm tired of asshats giving the Navy shit for shit they don't understand.
SailorJimmy
Well, we take it in good stride. We're like the underachievers of the military. Air Force, Primadonnas, Marines, Crazy as hell.
bentwrenches
My dad was on the Ranger when it collided with an oil tanker. This would have been late 70's,early 80's. Said it knocked him out of his bunk
LawFiveGuy
Thanks for the write up, and analysis. In the end, your penultimate sentence "something is f*cky over there..." sums it all up
SailorJimmy
At this point I chalk it up to tragic coincidences and not foul play. But I do think the high brass were complacent which led to it.
LawFiveGuy
if you're not familiar with it, take a few minutes to look up "peter principle". These situations sound a lot like that.
SailorJimmy
That sounds like a book about penises. As a former Sailor, all i have to say to that is "I'M IN!"