richman888
238265
7059
256
Repost of something I thought was interesting from a few years ago
Apr 3, 2018 9:55 PM
richman888
238265
7059
256
Repost of something I thought was interesting from a few years ago
DarkNinja2462
Minimum wage is ~$11/hour in the state of New York.
Jsmythe
Father of three here. All of my kids would turn the crank for as long as I let them. What does that say?
lagavulin16
Can I pay an undocumented person $2 an hour for me if I threaten to call the immigration police on them?
thunderfromoverunder
Fact check! Minimum wage in NY is $10.40. More in NYC: $12, or $13 for companies of 11 or more employees.
jumbosmooth
Mount a motor on that and let a robot make your money.
Novirtue
Found the mechanical engineer.
Ginkawa
or the not-dumb-monkey....
Cheomesh
Not your box - you don't turn the handle, you don't get the money.
Ginkawa
I turn the handle by hooking a machine to crank the lever for me. wheres the problem?
DrDresDog
This must be old as fuck, minimum in NY hasnt been at $7.25 since 2013. As of 12/31/17 it is $10.40
IUsedToBeTheWalrus
I mean in many cases that would solve the problem of them getting paid so little, by having many not get paid at all instead.
bendistraw
It’s powering a car battery in another universe.
TacoFox
Tinyverse
Doomgriever
ThunderTodd
Shouldn't the government turn the handle for me?
pastramionrye
Lol. This guy gets it.
Tinkrr
Nah, you should pay a company 15$ a month to turn the crank, something like 10 million people did for years D:
roads88mph
Y'all are gonna need to get on the UBI train before automation hits if you don't want another French revolution.
youisrealspecial
All aboard!
harpo3000
AI will be turning it in a few years
youwontlikewhateveriwrite
alright cool. I'm going to New York and outsource my new handcranking job
NeuerStandard
basic income now!
lookatthisphotographeverytimeidoitmakesmelaugh
We got rid of pennies in Canada a couple years ago so I guess we're fucked
reverendbonobo
The Canadian version releases a slow trickle of maple syrup.
lookatthisphotographeverytimeidoitmakesmelaugh
Stylee277
What? No apology?
lookatthisphotographeverytimeidoitmakesmelaugh
Sorry about that, eh
Stylee277
What’s that all aboot?
Mowsonbro
Hey if all you wanna do is turn a crank how much are you realy worth. Actual hard labour jobs will make you big money without education.
gulPlanA
Literally I was punched full force by a friend at school today for trying to argue against minimum wage. You can have your own opinion 1/3
gulPlanA
I just want people to consider my argument and prove me wrong if I am. I always thought minimum wage created massive demand for work 2/3
gulPlanA
While making it harder and more expensive for employers to hire. This would mean that jobs would be lost since companies close. One more...
gulPlanA
On top of this minimum wage only causes the cost of products to go up so people are impacted either way. What do you guys think?4/4
RationalViking
Removing the mininum wage will allow companies to employ people and pay them next to nothing, how is that different from slavery? If you /
RationalViking
think about it, what is the difference between unpaid labour and paid labour where you make so little that you cannot support yourself?
METR0ID
Raising the minimum wage equals to raising the costs of everything else. Then we're back where we started.
Tinkrr
I actually think is is a manipulative piece that is completely divorced from reality D:
Novirtue
Found the scientist.
shinagami091
is a demonstration to make people feel how it’s like to have their time valued at $7.25 an hour.
Tinkrr
Not at all... People pay to play MMOs and love it, so what, is that how it feels to work for -15.00$ a month? Clearly not D:
shinagami091
That’s not at all what I’m talking about. Work time versus leisure time are two different things.
Tinkrr
Except what is the difference between leisure grind, work grind, and hand crank penny machine grind. That's what this piece misses D:
shinagami091
Or you missed the point entirely
shinagami091
How so? It requires you to crank a box that pays out $7.25 per hour but the jobs that actually pay that are much more labor intensive. This
Tinkrr
Think about it this way, to play an MMO you pay 15$ a month... The context of the grind matters massively in regards to value. D:
lysani
Unless you have some electronic gears in that box, the rate it pays out will depend entirely on how fast you crank it. It's a bad analogy.
shinagami091
Might be. Says it pays one penny out at a regular interval. The cranking might be just to keep a timer going. Like an exercise bike
Kavoral
It's just a box that ejects pennies.
Tinkrr
Except it's designed in a very specific manner to be soul crushing, to mislead people about another topic. To put it simply, an MMO can 1/2
Tinkrr
can be described the same way as a grind, but millions of people pay for that grind, so what's the difference between that and this box? 2/3
Tinkrr
Well, I'm sure we can understand how different both are, so in the same light it's massively different from minimum wage employment. D: 3/3
cogitoro
Yeah, no one yells at you.
Deltaoo7
Learn how to mimic yourself, steal your wife and house, and make off with all your savings. Damn you Sara, couldn’t you tell the difference
pancreas
soul crushing, you mean like...minimum wage jobs? After spending a few minutes in a walmart, I almost felt like [if I worked there] i would
pancreas
(2)develop PTSD from that barcode scanning sound. I couldn't imagine just scanning items for hours a day.
Tinkrr
I worked as a cashier during high school, it wasn't bad at all. The amount of distraction during the day is pretty big so it never 1/2
pastramionrye
Agreed
Definitelywhereiparkedmycar
But what does the crank do?! Is it's soul purpose to just dish change. Doesn't even collect that energy?... what a waste.
pokeballin
I like you
deadandbloated
through a Rube-Goldberg-esque series of cranks, gears, and hamster wheels, it ultimately massages Robert Reich's prostate
Lukapaka
Yessssss xD
[deleted]
[deleted]
pokeballin
I like you
Lizaderp
That's the fault of whoever designed it, not the person hired to operate it.
SarahKercz
Where did they get such clean pennies?
UpvoteTotem
You gotta see that episode of dirty jobs where he washes the change
CrumbBubbly
At the gettin place
remembernakatomi
This is why I come to imgur.
Threewisemen
at the penny store.
ChaotikWolfi
Fun fact: there's a german supermarket chain called Penny
Roqinn
It's laundered money!
Barbatus
The dishwasher?
JAFIOI
They paid a guy minimum wage for a few days to shine them.
JeSuisBaguette
nah, they out sourced the job to China and save moẻ money
donttacoboutit
China is taking advantage of US Jobs! Classic !
eatyourveggiescarl
Let’s bring back coal, that will change everything!
IrTeknician
ass pennies.
ICatchx22I
Yes!!
magicpocket
A penny shinist
Quizz25S
Lulabel73
The mint
donkeymoney
New York, duh!
GuacamoleMoleMolester
Circumcision.
StealthyNinja7
Money laundering.
HorseHeadMonster
Soak them in Coke.
HungryPumpkn
Bet soaking them in wood would have better results.
Quizz25S
Why waste coke on pennies when I can use it to clean my insides instead?
CharlIly
Guess which is worth more then
LetTheLiquorDoTheThinkings
Im assuming before it goes up my nose?
TechnicallyRight
A bank? Where there is currency and coin, in bulk... It's kinda why people try to rob them alot. There's tons of money. Literal tons...
SarahKercz
But never so clean
TechnicallyRight
We have clean new un-circulated coin. In bulk. And order new money monthly. Go to a bank and request 7k in pennies. You'll get fuck tons.
SarahKercz
But that’s like $70. That’s real money that they take out of your account.
Davincimode
$7000.00 is actually only about 3888.88 fuck lbs , so maybe just shy of 2 fuck tons. Or did you mean 7000 pennies (70.00 worth)?
Ginkawa
I don't think you quite need to go to that extreme. if you just get a couple boxes they will probably have to order more,
Ginkawa
and theres a good chance they will be newer ones if they do that
HeywouldJablowme
This system is just a sophisticated form of slavery. Slavery never went anywhere, they just repackaged it
LincLoud
True, people shouldn't have to work for money or their needs, they should just be given anything they want whenever they want.
HeywouldJablowme
Wow you went there quick. How does that have anything to do with what I said?
Lukapaka
A slave to nature and the fact that sustenance and shelter do not intrinsically exist.
galacticpotahtur
sadly if wages go up too much, people will lose their jobs instead of having a crummy one to begin with
DeathReaper7291
People should be fired anyways, Most Wal-Mart employees i know dont get 40 hrs/wk so that they dont have to give them benefits.
VAElynx
Not a problem. Once the wages are low enough that people work multiple jobs? 1 job =/= one employee +
VAElynx
+ furthermore, we subsidize the wages of people that earn below poverty level which is even worse - socialism for the rich.
LiteralFish
So we fight the battle on other fronts also. Like maybe punish companies for moving overseas instead of rewarding them.
Icyfirebolt
As someone who lives in NY min wage is now $13 in state, and going up to $15 in 2019. The cost of living goes up too and changes nothing.
DeBallZ
It's not. It's 13 in the city, 10.40 in the rest of the state. https://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/minwage.sht
BrockEffingSamson
I mean, past experience doesn't support that, but I'm sure this time you'll somehow be right.
skttlebrau
So doubling the minimum wage for doing the same menial task somehow solves the problem?
Stylee277
People think the economy is mainly huge corporations. It's small business. Most small businesses fail. Increase their expenses and more fail
Mangomancer
it would definitely solve me working for 12 hrs a day, i tell you that. i would be quitting that part time job asap
[deleted]
[deleted]
skttlebrau
I suggest that people understand and accept that a job comprised primarily of mindless tasks is not entitled to a living wage
trisexualgardengnome
ParanoydAndroid
No, but it does correct one injustice. Real min wage has decreased since 60s. Their current work is worth more. Other labor changes needed 2
TBenz4Sportsball
That's the problem though. Their work isn't worth more. Automation has been driving that value down, and minimum wage can't change that.
Caniac
It's almost like smuggling in tens of millions of poor people with little to no job skills had a negative effect somehow
heat132
wut
TheOneTrueGalen
You illustrate an excellent point. The ability of capitalists to turn their workers against each other.
roads88mph
No. It's because in the late 60's business went "we would like to slowly bring back slavery" and the gov't went "yeah, ok".
Snyder4Prez
I mean that is true, but all real wage has been dropping in recent decades for the majority of people
theredfox64
On the opposite end, paying a CEO millions for bankruptcy somehow is socially acceptable? The responsibility is missing everywhere, top down
lysani
Just for fun, I'd love to see a random person try to handle the CEO position of any major company for one week.
erischilde
Most people don't have the level of sociopathy or lack of morals to do the job well. It's amazing how many CEOs at various levels Ive met 1/
erischilde
That have no concept of what time things take; what things cost; and what people do /2
PrinceSatisfactory
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/anything
kruug
Why can’t a privately owned company decide their own budgets?
cogitoro
Because market standards are decided by public corporations that have more power than the federal government and which aren't elected.
ThermoNuke
.. welcome to a free market, done us good so far. What you're referring too is more "planned economy".. hasn't worked for most peeps.
trisexualgardengnome
Because what these people want is to saturate the “free” market in so much regulation they pack up their jobs and move overseas.
Nogtail
Hook the crank up to a drill. Work smarter not harder.
malbec
passive income bitches!
Lizaderp
You only get one penny every 4.9 seconds. Turning faster just burns more energy. There's no point in working harder. You accomplish nothing.
f0rtunatef0ol
This machine was also not intended to have someone work it as their main source of income for years upon years.
LincLoud
Thank you. The OP even reads '2 million people on minimum wage' but that is about half a percent of the US, which means the majority of ->
LincLoud
people are working for above minimum wage. The goal should always be to find a better job (whether that means simply better paying or ->
LincLoud
more fulfilling or both) but there are those who put in no effort and expect that they can work these jobs that many teens get as their ->
LincLoud
first form of work experience and do so for life.
Ensano
And this operates under the assumption that everyone is valuable.
naikou
One day none of us will be valuable when the machines can outcompete us on every level. Hopefully they treat us kindly...
BrockEffingSamson
Hey, there it is, the root argument: You shouldn't have to pay undesirables to work for you.
Yddvb76e3000
Well said.
MrSpookywasagoodboy2
Everyone is Jesus says so
iAmWhatPlantsCrave
Their life not their work
LiteralFish
So we should not pay them enough to live and let them die in the streets? Necause their life is what's valuable?
iAmWhatPlantsCrave
Wealth redistribution stifles wealth creation and makes everyone worse of especially the poor
naikou
Tricky question. If they can’t produce anything valuable, who should pay them, and why? Is charity enough? Forced wealth redistribution?
MrSpookywasagoodboy2
If you're not producing anything valuable you don't have a job, your employer should pay you, if they can't they don't have a viable busines
cogitoro
The alternative to that assumption is something very scary, and most western societies thankfully have the ability to avoid confronting it.
Ensano
Sadly they are avoiding it. My solution, every 4 years the population is scored on their usefulness. The bottom 5% are offered free
Ensano
military enrollment for 4 years, the bottom 1% are culled and used to feed the those that didn't take military service, rinse repeat
yarow12
According to Jordan Peterson, 10%[?] of the American population lack to IQ to be useful to the military and arguably an employer.
RationalViking
Jordan Peterson is a pseudo-intellectual, I would take what he says with a grain of salt.
pokeballin
I met people that couldn't make sandwiches at Subway. Where you literally ask the customer what to do and then do it immediately.
LiteralFish
Okay Hitler.
Injusto
Bring that machine to my country. You'll have a line of people willing to turn it for 10 hours straight for that wage.
JoshSteven12
Lol do you even know anything about latin america? They dont care about pennies, they see pennies as a piece of cow dump... Honestly
akahata
Dude, this is not about pennies, it‘ more like a metaphor.
Novirtue
Found the person from Latin America.
SunBrolem
And I suppose that has nothing to do with the dollar's vastly superior purchasing power in "your country"
Sephority
In your country they'd probably just smash it open
13599
Workin smarter, not harder.
IgniaEternale
How much does that buy an hour? At Papa John's, they pay their employees the equivalent menu price of a 2 Liter & 2 extra garlic cups hourly
Toobatee
$3?
M4Firefly
Very true. This is not an argument for raising the minimum wage. This is motivation for those who is capable of more than just cranking.
squireltactics
"Now I know you're all excited for an opportunity to turn the bigger, much more difficult crank for a meagre increase in pennies..."
M4Firefly
The job market is a pyramid. There will always be crankers. Unless communism.
squireltactics
"Just remember, only one of the ten of you will get an opportunity. "
pyramania
that is gross domestic product. and you are correct.
jackblade
In my country the minimum wage is a fifth of that.
rustfu1337
Bring it to my country and it'll get stolen asap
stiggypa
Yeah but does a 1 bedroom house cost close to half a million there?
bpa77
You can always move.
usernamesarealreadytaken
And keep your pay? I think not. Move somewhere cheap and you get paid less
bpa77
I've lived in some of the most expensive coastal cities & the Midwest, & my experience is that wages do not come close to scaling equally
cats3000
Half a million? My friend that is a bargain
Hartok
Half mill in Cali or NY, maybe. 200k here will land a 4 bedroom home on a quarter acre, 20 minutes from a major metro center. Midwest life.
Snowman0HK
I dont get why anyone working a minimum wage job would stay in new York. It's not like you're staying for your career. Move somewhere else..
ProfitJackson
Auckland born Kiwi here... that price point hits close to home... literally
Gamble669
3 br 2bath 2100sqft with full partially finished basement nice big back yard and 2 car attached garage built in the late 80s 138k
dippydoda
Even in Midwest that a little low more 150k and up, depending on neighbor. Just looked at 1200 sq ft 3 bed 1 bath detached garage for 145 k
IamJustinSane
Sold ours in the late 80’s for more than twice that.
lysani
A 1 bedroom house doesn't cost half that in most of the US. Using places like NY or CA to measure costs is a terrible idea.
LincLoud
People are fleeing California. 100,000 left in 2016 and 138,000 left in 2017. The cost of that state is forcing them to leave
itsPitter
but the machine is in NY, and that guy said bring the machine to his country. pretty relevant to mention the change in living costs
FatForYou
Well the minimum wage isn't 7.25 in Minnesota it's like 9 something.
SuckAnElf
Technically 1 out of 8 Americans live in California. So that’s not bad odds that any given American could have that high cost of living.
gunnexx
There's a reason why housing is cheap in Fuckbum, Alabama. People don't want to live there because lack of work
useorname
But the post literally says “minimum wage in NY”...
lysani
My comment was in reply to the comment above mine, who was replying to the comment above them, which was talking about other places.
snipekill1997
...in comparison to the post that is about NY. Are you being purposefully oblivious or are you just that dense?
Scubasteve0571
But the state minimum wadge is $10.40
TheDuke0fHazzard
Which is currently $10.40 and incrementally increasing to $15
stiggypa
Yup, cost of living is drastically different in different areas, which is why it's pointless to say "people here would gladly take that pay"
Lukapaka
So you would say it's equally bonkers to say 'all states must pay $X'
stiggypa
Like it's some kind of criticism of American work ethic.
Ginkawa
kinda a criticism of how dumb it is for low-skill people to live in coastal mega-cities though.
zoezoebelle
I work with a ton of Indian immigrants and they constantly bitch that they can't afford anything in the US, even though they moved for money
Ensano
One simple question, where is all this money going to come from?
BrockEffingSamson
Increased wages = increased spending = more revenue for employers.
pastramionrye
The CEO of course, also, fat cats. Imgur is going to have to tighten its belt.
alman1234
Yeah, you know the business isn't going to compensate with it's funds and instead they will charge higher for the service.
tufkab
Shhhh.....You're ruining the argument with your facts and logic.
Ensano
Spoken like someone who's never run a business before. Show me an industry that employs minimum wage employees that runs on a profit margin
Ensano
large enough to sustain doubling their wage cost?
alman1234
How much, production, shipping, and electricity all included, do you think it takes to make a pizza? How much do you think they make back?
Ensano
20% food cost, 10-15% labour cost at best if things go perfect. Add in taxes, overhead etc you have a very small final margin. Now double
Patrickt333
Waaaahh!! I worked minimum wage for years, 3 jobs at a time. Minimum wage is not a career, quit treating it like one.
TheManyMadMasks
So many variables; what years you did it, area, industry, etc. Time marches on; and what worked for you isn't working for most anymore.
newsguycraigevans
Found a Republican interested in pushing down the common worker out of petty greed!
seandude689
Found the liberal cuck that wants free handouts and destroy independent businesses!
alex5775
Apparently wanting a livable wage for doing a job is now wanting free handouts
thewerx
I agree. A lot of people grow complacent with their standing because they're getting by. Work your way up the ladder, don't stand there.
WarKittyKat
When I did minimum wage, I was basically spending all my energy getting by. I tried to study, but I was so tired from work I couldn't.
DeathStarWasAnInsideJob
40 years ago it isn’t a career. Now it is, God bless automation and offshore manufacturing.
kruug
It doesn’t have to be. Skilled labor is still needed and can’t be offshores as easily.
DeathStarWasAnInsideJob
labour market doesn’t magically turns everyone into perfect fillers for demand. Baseline unemployment will continue to rise.
LiteralFish
"I had a shitty start at life, so everyone else should too!"
deadandbloated
yeah, god forbid the world *improve* over time
brokenshutter
Exactly! No one makes a career working minimum wage at McDonald’s or Wal-Mart. People need to further their education to land a better 1/2
brokenshutter
2/2 paying job. Don’t skim from the bottom collecting MW, set higher goals. I collected MW, & then went back to school. I make much more now
WarKittyKat
Did you take out loans? That was my concern - I'd have had to cut my hours and take out loans for living expenses, plus school costs.
brokenshutter
I lost my job. With 2 kids, I had to do something. While registering for unemployment, I found there was a grant that I could use to go 1/2
brokenshutter
2/2 back to school. Through the school was able to get a paid internship w/ a huge company. It was temp, but it looked great on my resume
allibaster12
I am all for increasing minimum wage, as long as my annual/hourly wage goes up to make the difference the same.
EPurpleRain
that’s a pretty messed up thing to say when you think about it.
nibbley
that's an incredibly revealing comment, i wonder how many people feel the same?
justGeorge
And inflation will quickly catch up and take all that. You just can't win.
[deleted]
[deleted]
LiteralFish
And they should get a raise too! Why don't we raise each other up instead of burn each other down?
JedeTage
This is exactly what the people who set the min wage want. People fighting over the crumbs. Directs attention away from their antics.
FoxySpirit
At least chimps in a zoo get adequate food, heated housing and healthcare and they try to bring in some entertainment.
Cheomesh
The cops around here make a bit more than I do in IT (I've asked). EMTs, though, definitely seem to get much less. Which is weird to me.
Bisppdx9
On a percentile basis.
stiggypa
djjmfl350
I'm going to need some sauce for this
poifacerob
They want us to argue about the crumbs to keep I'd from noticing they took the whole damn cake.
Booooooiqqqq
This
ChameleonFacedGoon
So true. Some have untold billions.
UrGrammasMonkey
Absolutely
Igotthisguys
So they raise taxes and inflation goes with it and no one benefits okay
ShawnRussell
This is why I own my own business. Everyone in my store has the same pay. Why should I make more? What makes me so special?
Kerml
Is this after you've paid all of the businesses other needs? Overheat, insurance, your business loans?
ShawnRussell
No loan. Everything paid for from savings and yes. Business pays for its bills. I take a hourly wage. Same as every else. No extra.
ShawnRussell
Anything left over from profit goes to business savings.
Ginkawa
because you work harder, produce more value, take more risk, and contribute more?
TenEighty
They just did this in ontario and i agree, after working for 2.5 years and earning 2 raises i now make like $1 more than new min wage hire
TenEighty
Not to mention friend of mine works at starbucks, everyone got $3 hour more or w.e but small buisness i work at cant afford 50k/yr in raises
hurrdurr69
So ask for a raise
Dontlaughatmyusername
This is the problem with a blanket raise of the min wage. Everybody’s must go up at the same rate or else you’ve just shifted the problem.
deadandbloated
Yeah, studies show that actually happens when the minimum wage goes up. Still waiting on verification of the trickle down "theory", though.
pastramionrye
Killing the point and making your stance irrelevant. But also, +1
TheRealJakeLongg
Thats selfish, and undereducated. Most likely, its the reason you only make what you do.
MrAgrijag
Yeah his comment was underedcuated, sorry it couldnt go to a fancy private school like your comment.
flashtrigger
RocketManLeague
Really? I agree with him. I work in automation engineering, I build, test, and fix the machines. Should I not make more than the people 1/2
RocketManLeague
2/2 who just push the button? There is an inequality problem I agree but raising min wage is not the solution
LiteralFish
Of we raised the minimum wage to a skilled wage, it will pressure businesses to raise skilled wage so they dont leave for easier job, same $
RocketManLeague
If you raise min wage employers will just raise prices of goods to compensate
madmatt2024
So you think it's fair for someone that has earned raises due to job performance to all of a sudden be paid the same as a new hire?
LiteralFish
No. They should get a raise too. Raising the min wage would likely light a fire under their ass so they fight for a raise also
LineCook
I feel the same. I've worked my ass off to not be a minimum wage worker. However, the min wage has been going up faster than my pay rate.
TRBOBDOLE
Doesnt make sense. Minimum wage is down since 1968 when adjusted for inflation.
Rystefn
And the cost of living is going up faster than both. You're complaining about the wrong thing.
LineCook
I'm not complaining about minimum wage going up, I'm complaining about stagnant wages. If anything there should be a wage cap at the top.
TRBOBDOLE
That means that if your wage has done literally anything except go down, your statement is false.
Boggsy17
It won't that's the problem. I was told we may get a dollar more an hour.
inboxmefoxes
Why? Why does what someone else makes have any bearing on your own self worth? You are not your paycheck.
kruug
So, you’re saying that people shouldn’t change their wage to ensure coworkers make enough?
skincancerisfun
The worth of a dollar is relative to its supply. If the Fed prints off twice the amount of money in circulation, and gives it proportionally
skincancerisfun
to everyone so they have double what they had before, with you being the sole exception, the value of your money is now halve what it was
OdinYggd
I've worked for 10 years to make more than minimum wage. If minimum wage goes up, so does everything else- hurting my budget.
OdinYggd
Minimum wage increase should also mean a proportional increase to everyone making less than 3x poverty threshold.
Ginkawa
thats not very realistic though.
umbralupum
If he is what is considered a skilled worker, then he makes a higher wage than non-skilled(minimum-wage) work 1/2.
umbralupum
He might feel his work and skill would be devalued if minimum wage increases but his does not. 2/2
OdinYggd
Which is exactly what happened. Just the thought of raising minimum wage raised my cost of living, effectively cutting my pay
Furiou5
More importantly: If there is no reason to be a skilled laborer than most people wouldn't take the effort to become one.
AntoniusBlock33
Maybe he is trying to argue economically. Higher wages could result in higher prices for food and consumer goods in general. Thus negatively
AntoniusBlock33
Affecting his real purchasing power and therefore, as some would say, very well his wellbeeing.
inboxmefoxes
Which would be an EXTREMELY roundabout argument that I can't think of having basis in any study I know of.
icecubetray
I think every economist is in agreement that higher wages leads to higher inflation. Don’t think there’s debate there.
echonite
If minimum wage goes up, then it devalues the work of those who don't get a raise as well.
Frigididator
And increases the cost of goods and services, making the minimum wage increase moot through inflation.
inboxmefoxes
No it doesn't. How? What is devalued? What, other than 'man how dare that guy make almost as much as me?'
Ginkawa
"that guy is an idiot who barely does his simple job right and he gets paid 90% of what I do" is a pretty damned legitimate complaint
inboxmefoxes
I've met plenty of 'skilled' workers that this would apply to, though, so...
echonite
If minimum comes closer to skilled labor pay, skilled labor is devalued because it's not worth as much anymore.
inboxmefoxes
Look, minimum wage should probably be around $15. If your 'skilled labor' is only paying you $15/hr, YOU are being underpaid.
thereisnospaceforyouhere
I've never understood that mindset; "I am all for paying people a living wage, as long as I am ultimately still better off than they are."
Leithoa
Skilled v unskilled labor.
Ginkawa
how is it not reasonable to expect to be paid more than someone doing some warm-body/trained-chimp job?
idkalan
The mindset comes from the fact that if they're a major skilled worker then they should still be paid more than a cashier.
idkalan
Simply bc their job requires more qualifications than a 16yr with no prior work experience
LiteralFish
The cashier will still be below them. They would rather the cashier starve to death than not be AS FAR below them anymore.
DontHateMePlease
Thats not why. Min wage increases = higher cost of living (likely). If you don't increase at a comparable rate you are losing value.
BrockEffingSamson
That was a fancy way of saying that you're against raising the minimum wage. But at least you managed to sound selfish.
Leithoa
No its a fancy way of saying anyone can make coffee or stock shelves, they can't rebuild an engine or write code.
BrockEffingSamson
So therefore other people should live in crushing poverty?
Leithoa
Calm down Ms. Newman, I'm saying work has a value & stacking boxes on a pallet doesn't bring much value to a company. But you've already
BrockEffingSamson
So therefore your point is that we shouldn't raise MW, because the work doesn't have value? So, crushing poverty continues?
Leithoa
2)made up your mind that anyone who disagrees with you is some robber baron who'd sell their own kids to the work houses if it were legal
MrAgrijag
You have a skilled worker making 16 or 17 an hour. Now you have an unskilled grunt making minimum 15. How is that fair?
Grindfacts
Took more work to get a job that's not shitty retail job
MrAgrijag
The skilled worker has been through much more training and has put more effort into his position, now he only makes a dollar or two more?
BrockEffingSamson
So he worked hard, is probably better for it, and makes more money? Sounds great. Why is this an argument for poverty again?
BrockEffingSamson
Who said life has to be fair, snowflake? Did you really only get an education so you can be better than other people?
pokeballin
That's kinda the point
BrockEffingSamson
So you're an evil douche, roger that.
skincancerisfun
There are unskilled grunts making 1000 an hour while you squabble over a dollar. How is that fair?
Leithoa
What job is that? Either you pulled that or if your ass or that's a very dangerous job.
MrAgrijag
There are imgur users changing the subject to get away from the crazy statement they made earlier
skincancerisfun
Its all part of the same conversation my friend. If you can't see that your field of view isn't wide enough to deal with this topic
PartyMarty92
So will the cost of everything
TemetNosce000
Everything's made overseas anyway.
tinypurrito
This is currently happening in NZ. Govt is putting our min wages to $20hr over the next 4 years so its a living wage. Prices are going up /2
tinypurrito
Everywhere to cover the costs of the increased wages. Its going to kill off small businesses unfortunately
IUseThisAccountForReviews
Yeah if only we could force people to work for less money than they can survive on so that my coffees don't increase in price...
DreadPierateRoberts
But not just those prices raise housing, food , gas. Though with automation most people will e vuntally not need to work. Could by
Onlyhereforthelaughs
The cost of everything has already gone up.
Cheomesh
This is why no one should get raises.
ThemHardNutz
Yes but not at the same rate.... that’s the point
Lobuttomize
What makes you think that
ThemHardNutz
Economics lol
alphusultimus
You're saying that as if it hasn't already happened.
CunningPsycholinguist
The notion of a minimum wage is that a person working a 40 hour week should be able to get by without relying on public assistance.
ShawnRussell
You would have to live in a democracy or true communist country for that to even begin to happen.
Ryebread91
Correct. The issue is most minimum wage jobs don’t offer 40 hours/week and the cost of living “requirements” haven’t been updated.
kruug
But that varies from city to city. Proximity to your place of employment, cost of housing, cost of food, etc...
PoliteButFactualCanadian
No, that's not true at all. Not all jobs have to pay you a living wage.
Rystefn
That's the point. They should have to pay you a living wage.
AVoiceOfReason
"Get by" People want to have a full family on a McDonalds wage, and I'm not in support of that. Sorry.
pokeballin
an individual can live on minimum wage just fine. Its when you start having kids and bad habits that it becomes "unlivable"
VagisilToothpaste
You can live "just fine" if you live in the ghetto, maybe...min wage won't do shit for you where I live, man.
pokeballin
I did just fine working at JJs for 3 years in a nice area close to work. But that changes from city to city. Hell even from block to block.
VagisilToothpaste
So, after you admit that it changes...why would you say what you said before? "It worked for me it MUST work for you" is a bad story.
roads88mph
This is also untrue.
OtterlyMagnificent
As a side point: The 10.50 /hr minimum wage here in Arizona was enough for me to get by and pay for college with 40hr weeks. It's the 1/
thedarkviolet
I was making $14 in AZ and could barely afford my studio apartment, which was shitty. $15 woulda been nice. Do you live in the city?
thedarkviolet
Sorry, farther down you say you lived at home still (no shame). Minimum wage at $15 in PHX metro seems reasonable with cost of living to me
OtterlyMagnificent
Mesa, and I lived with my parents, so that saved me that bill. Didn't save me the food or gas, or phone, or school bills.
thedarkviolet
Yes, but can you see where having $500 (minimum) rent and utilities would be a bigger burden? And many min wage workers are in school w/rent
OtterlyMagnificent
people working 20hr weeks that want the minimum raised to 15, so they don't HAVE to work that hard. (I'm currently at 15/hr doing physical2/
OtterlyMagnificent
labor though, so I'm earning that 15, and if minimum wage goes up, I might lose my job because they'd have to raise my pay to keep me 3/
OtterlyMagnificent
above minimum wage without raising their prices...4/4
enel1221
I just want to point out you were the proper use for minimum wage, going to college on your way to an actual career. Not trying to support/2
enel1221
A family and planning on living the rest of your life on minimum wage. I commend you +1
OtterlyMagnificent
True, I wasn't trying to support myself fully. I was living with my parents at the time. But...I was covering every one of my bills except1/
CunningPsycholinguist
The fact that other industries vastly underpay their employees is not a good argument against paying people enough to survive.
Ace1618
The issue is in your statement I work in management. Most people want to complain about the wage and having no money (1/2)
Ace1618
And then at the same time want 4 off days and a max of 20 hours. It has to be one or the other. (2/2)
mmurrbles
The wages are set by the market. Wages go up when fewer people are people are willing to work.
ShrubNinja
And so what do you propose? We just let people who can't get the high paying jobs struggle to survive?
mmurrbles
That's just life my friend. You can't legislate away problems and you can't fix prices in the market without disasterious consequences.
PoliteButFactualCanadian
Why do all jobs have to pay a wage that someone can live off of?
VagisilToothpaste
Because otherwise what the fuck is the point of having a job? To hate your life even more?
PoliteButFactualCanadian
Should a paper route, which is designed to give kids some spending money have to pay a living wage?
LiteralFish
onthe6ball
students, retirees, etc, just looking for a few extra bucks. Their jobs disappear at $15/hr. Not all jobs are for supporting a family.
roads88mph
But minimum wage *is*.
LiteralFish
Min wage isn't enough for a single person to live on. Not all students can live with their parents.
LiteralFish
Not to mention, some go back to school later. Would you rather they not be able to improve themselves after having family they can't support
thedarkviolet
Actually there will still be the menial jobs, the ones you wouldn't want to do forever but it's okay part time while in school
BugJuiceComesFromWhoYouAre
There are less and less retirees, people work til they die. And students need to pay off massive student loans. It’s just not a good time.
Agrigon
Student loans aren't a good excuse for raising m. wage. If you get student debt and can't get more than minimum wage get a different major.
VagisilToothpaste
Ah yes, because college 100% GUARANTEES you a job these days, eh?
CongratsYouAreHereNow
this is absolutely true
Ravenbreaker
Thats not what minimum wage is for though. Its for high school kids and first time jobs, It's not supposed to be able to support a family
VagisilToothpaste
Uh, no. When min wage was introduced it was exactly so a person working full-time (40hrs/wk) could survive. Not just barely exist.
roads88mph
This isn't true, btw.
Rystefn
No it isn't. You're 100% wrong. I have no idea who invented that lie or why so many people parrot it, but t's insane if you think about it.
Ravenbreaker
For everyone commenting its false. https://medium.com/@amuse/minimum-wage-isn-t-supposed-to-be-a-living-wage-18c8f0fd65bc
Leithoa
Medium is not a reputable source. It's just bored people writing manifestos.
Ravenbreaker
Ohh okay. let me find something more reputable then. Because I'm sure none of that information will be found anywhere else..
Ravenbreaker
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2015/home.htm
Ravenbreaker
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/undisputed-facts-minimum-wage
hurrdurr69
Look up the number of students in the US vs the number of minimum wage jobs before you say something so mindnumbingly stupid
Ravenbreaker
Theres your "mindnumbingly stupid" You uninformed cunt.
hurrdurr69
You linked an unsourced opinion piece, damn you really showed me how brilliant you are. Back to fox news with you
Ravenbreaker
https://medium.com/@amuse/minimum-wage-isn-t-supposed-to-be-a-living-wage-18c8f0fd65bc
LittlestG
There’s a lot of unreferenced facts in that article, and a lot of holes in his argument. I’d like to see the statistics.
Ravenbreaker
Minimal skill, minimal effort, minimal pay.
Kerml
Don't forget the perks of free food and insurance. Even more if you pop out more babies.
Ravenbreaker
"Free" I wish to go back to the 60's and bitch slap whoever came up with the idea for welfare programs.
Ravenbreaker
And the fact that we're talking about doubling the pay for 0.625% of the US population, is fucking insane when you factor the inflation.
Ravenbreaker
And don't even start with that "if their wages rise so will yours" bullshit argument. I'm not gonna magically start making double my pay.
LiteralFish
Their labor is generating billions in profit, which goes straight to CEO. Then you pay the worker in social programs.
Leithoa
If the CEO of most large companies took a multi million dollar paycut, it's work out to a buck or two raise. Not some life changing event.
JAFIOI
1) This is a great analogy. Doubling minimum wage while the people "turning the crank" won't do anything to better themselves is..
DeathReaper7291
The problem is that prices go up faster than minimum wage goes up. They are supposed to raise equally over time, but they arent.
evilspock
Your fallacy is that people won't do anything to improve their situation. They will. Education and training costs money.
Yddvb76e3000
Yes, and it will cost alot more money when min wage increases. U ppl really underestimate how greedy capitalism is...
bjorklund
I think I the problem is if a kid makes $17/hr working at McD’s, it’s unlikely his motivation to make more increases. When you guarantee
bjorklund
Someone’s entire being is funded, too many people will take advantage and do the bare minimum. Look at welfare and social security.
bjorklund
Too many people are willing to do as little as possible when someone else is footing the bill.
adamrac
The cost of which will go up as corporations raise prices to deal with the higher minimum wage, putting them back in the same situation
ParanoydAndroid
Empirically unsupported in the literature. Inflation does not eat all min. wage gains. And remember real min wage has decreased since 60s
sabata2
Empirically, or in literature. Pick one. One is backed by studies, the other is literally just "written words".
ParanoydAndroid
The relevant studies are empiric. There's no need to "pick one".
KnownSecretCarrot
Yes. Training costs money. But with MANY tutorials, beginning concepts are cheaply within grasps. And following that scholarships are
KnownSecretCarrot
available. The hard part is removing that antiquated aid systems. You either have aid, or not. When without aid, it is a HUGE struggle to g
KnownSecretCarrot
get started. Hell, look at unemployment. Where I am, if you work ANY you report the full gross. Any menial amount will be take out& 'saved'
WarKittyKat
Don't underestimate time. Working minimum wage for me was 40h/week. 1h unpaid lunch. No car and had to rent far away, so 3h commute. (1/2)
WarKittyKat
By the time I worked my hours and did basic taking care of myself stuff, I was done. Tried to study but was just too tired to get it. (2/2)
KnownSecretCarrot
Sorry. That's life. It sucks like hell. I was in similar situations. Hell. I'm starting over myself in a different industry now. Situations
IcyPeter
Then put the money into affordable education and training programs.
IcyPeter
Coming out of high school with HVAC certification will get you $12-15/hr starting out
evilspock
Yes, as well - but people who don't make enough to feed themselves take 2nd jobs, not training.
IcyPeter
It's hard to do more than general statements in 140 char or less but let's be real. If financial planning and trade skills were taught as 1)
IcyPeter
Part of school as opposed to advanced physical education people would be more prepared to enter society. The old "do what you love and 2(
ParanoydAndroid
Financial planning classes don't solve systemic, cyclical poverty issues. Most poor people aren't poor because they weren't taught $ mgmt.
CourtCaptain
roads88mph
Except schools are run like businesses, where the students are the product.
DeathReaper7291
Except some jobs pay employees to go to school, like many plumbing companies, but no one wants those jobs. $30/hr + raises are by $10.
JAFIOI
2) not going to fix the underlying problem. What it WILL do however, is push costs of living up across the board. Just my two cents.
acmjonas42
Or your two cranks ????
humaneffigy
You're assuming everyone with a low wage job is some inferior lazy asshat. It could happen to anyone.
buttchops
It's only a penny for your thoughts
SexDungeonsandDragons
Ten cents in a few years, right?
LokiShinigami
The only thing that makes cost of living high us greed. When an item only costs a dollar to make, the works are paid minimally....
LokiShinigami
The cost of production hasn't changed for 20 years, the workers haven't gotten any raises, but the price of the product continually increase
Retsam19
Federal minimum wage was $4.75 in 1996, which, adjusted for inflation is $7.41 in 2017 dollars. Seems like it's keep up with inflation okay.
LokiShinigami
Each year, with the profit constantly going only to the manufacturer CEOs pockets. They can afford to raise the wage of employees.
LokiShinigami
They're just greedy. If they're employees can make it on 20k a year (barely) then the boss's 800k+ a year is significantly too much.
alman1234
Sounds about right. Most people don't seem to understand that raising the bottom line pushes everyone else up too.
theredfox64
Not to bely the point but, at what point does it become unreasonable? The CEO of toys r us got a 16 million dollar bonus, for bankruptcy
kruug
Privately owned company. Why does the government get to dictate what they do with their own money/budgets?
theredfox64
Not a privately owned company, but a public traded corporation, sans that. The point is, if someone has a low end job, raising the min wage
theredfox64
When a CEO bankrupts a company, never bad for the economy, or ruining thousands of jobs, its good for him/her, no studies on it, no experts
theredfox64
Hurts the economy, and boo for them, menial tasks, no wage increase for flipping burgers.
tarWHOdis
That two cents is 9.94 seconds of work.
nibbley
this is a weird myth, because the math proves this isn't the case, and the info is readily available, but people keep believing it.
BiliboyJenkins
I'd like to see the math that shows that increasing the supply of money available 'doesn't' cause prices to rise.
bjorklund
So you think raising minimum wage won’t increase cost of living? If I own a company and am forced to raise wages, I’m gonna raise...
bjorklund
Costs to compensate. That plus ensure no one works overtime in order to ensure I’m not paying one employee more than another.
nibbley
also, the price of something isn't driven by its costs. it's determined by whatever the market will bear.
nibbley
trust me, if mcdonalds thinks you'll pay more for a burger, it'll increase the price, regardless of whether costs have gone up.
nibbley
i can't even really imagine a company in which costs are 1:1 with labour, and those employees make minimum wage.
nibbley
minimum wage just doesn't have much impact on costs. at my company, not a single employee makes minimum wage.
nibbley
well, we know it doesn't. minimum wages have gone up many times all over the world. there's lots of data on it.
humaneffigy
Because the "I'm better than them and they deserve to have shit lives" story is cooler.
theycallmewillywonka
Clost of living has been raining for how long now and minimum wage is just now going up to meet it. No, then underlying problem isn't
theycallmewillywonka
Minimum wage. Idt it needs to make it all the way to 15. If employers would just pay people's worth and not the minimum then maybe this shit
theycallmewillywonka
Wouldn't pass. Worked at bm for 3 years. I made 12 an HR. Now McDonald's making just below that. Seems fucky
AnathemaNoreh
Gonna get downvoted but: Cost of living = living (ie rent and food). Not electronics, fashion, or vacations like people want it to mean.
LiteralFish
Which makes it even more fucked for some to encourage denying a living wage to ppl. We don't even deny these basics to the worst criminals
AnathemaNoreh
No I'm saying increasing the "minimum wage" isn't the solution. It's an easy fix to appease the masses rather than fixing the bigger problem
humaneffigy
Like the people you imagined want it to mean.
theycallmewillywonka
I walk to work. Haven't bought a video game in years. Rents 450 utilities another 160 college loans doing a lot of.good. tell me about it.
AnathemaNoreh
I get it. People want to enjoy the good things. But unfortunately of you have no education, trade, or people skills you're SOL. That's life
theycallmewillywonka
Far from shit out of luck. You sure do assume a whole bunch about me too. You're the only ass here though.
theycallmewillywonka
Wait , I said college loans you twit. I have an education. I lived off my saving for 9 months before taking McDonald's because nothing else
heat132
And how are you supposed to get a good education, or learn a trade when the cost of schooling has gone up substantially?