When my Mom was 55 she had a uterine prolapse (guess I left a time bomb in there) and a spot on her ovary. She wanted a hysterectomy, but no. The male docs said she might want more kids and refused to operate. Wanted her to just use a pessary, and they’d just keep an eye on the spot. She went thru 3 male docs to get a female who asked her why she wanted to keep her uterus, and did the surgery after my mom broke down crying, saying that she didn’t. The spot had doubled in size, and was cancerous
I'm a little torn on this one; the psych eval isn't actually an 'evaluation' at all: it's meant to force you to take some time to think about your decision, and to see if there's any hesitancy on your part before they start slicing and dicing. I can kind of appreciate an institutional-level "but are you REALLY sure" waiting period.
Buddy got a vestecomy back in his ewlry/ mif 20's after getting out of the Navy, he had to search extensively for a Dr. who would perform his, others flat out refused due to his age. Maybe a psych. eval., would've been good in his case, because turns out it's not that he wouldn't want kids, but that 2 different adult women molested him before the age of 16, one for years, and he's terrified he might fail his kids. (was his moms fault, she ignored his attempts to say something was wrong)
Both men and women. Self advocate. Doctors are just people that read books and opinions are not medical advice, just people being assholes. If a doctor does this. Find a different doctor. r/childfree on reddit has a list of doctors that don't suck for every state. If you need that kind of help, please go look at list.
"Completely" - no. Successful reversal rates range between 30-95% depending on age, time since the operation, and other factors. Not even remotely "completely".
When I was 22 I wanted to get mine tied. They said I was too young and to wait until I'm 27. When I turned 27 I came back. But they told me I was at the start of my life and should wait until I find a husband. I don't want to get married... I'm 30 now and going to try again. Curious what it'll be this time
That's so fucked up. it all comes down to reproductive rights and no one should be able to make that decision for your own body or defer that decision.
Just before my vasectomy they asked me why I was getting the procedure. I said "so I don't have kids... Is there another reason?". There was not. I have no idea why they asked.
I've heard it's like this with some places but when I got mine during the consult the doc was like "so you don't want kids?" And I said "nope" and that was that
In a country with a working social and health system, a check like that makes sense to identify people that suffer from a serious psychological condition which makes them seek ways to harm themselves. They could be offered medical help to treat that condition if it exists. In a christofascist society of course, such requirements would just be made up to block people from making life decisions that differ from the norms imposed by the society, no matter what their mental state is.
Do they require this for plastic surgery. Face lift? implants? hair plugs? What about medicines with major potential. side effects. They test your liver for accutane, but they don't require a psyche eval despite it potentially causing severe depression, birth defects, liver issues, brain pressure, and others. That's an example off the top of my head, I'm sure there are better examples. It's just curious.
Exactly. No one “fails” the eval - it provides litigation protection to the doctor who performs the operation, so the patient can’t come back later and claim they didn’t understand what was being done to them
It's not really my joke, the writers of the office wrote the joke. It's not meant to be taken seriously, so your earnest reply makes it seem that you missed that point, or like in my reply gif, you didn't catch the joke. I wasn't actually trying to make a comment on vasectomies.
When I got my vasectomy the doctor doing the surgery was very kind, gentle, and knowledgeable. After a successful surgery, I told him, if it wasn't so weird I would refer you to a friend.
I absolutely recommended my urologist to my friends after my vasectomy, he was great. If anyone in the Bakersfield, CA area is looking to get snipped Dr. Waguespack is excellent. Only downside was they don't do sperm count testing in house so I had to go to an external lab for testing afterward.
Mine was cute (no homo) and around my age so it went way further than a peck. Let's just say the ol tubes needed to be fully emptied before getting snipped (no homo tho).
So you want to either allow 16 year old to adopt kids or have the government either ban sex for minors, enact forced abortions or adoptions? Have you been thinking this through?
Forced abortions? You realize the problem is the opposite and many people no longer have access to abortion. I think they're talking about forced birth
Yeah, because turns out, we never fucking had separation of church and state in the fucking slightest and its all been a bigass gaslighting session about how much the constitution or founding fathers "matter."
Yeah, they kept fucking slaves. They were fucking psychopathic as a result, and couldn't even figure out how to write, unequivocally, "The second amendment is to regulate the foundation of a state military that will serve under the purview of the government as well as answer the Federal government."
One of my coworkers is certain that in a vasectomy, the male member is removed. I said, “of course, it’s why so many women want men to have it done.” He is also wildly anti-vax and has had Covid 5 times. Hospitalized twice. Probably ran up $200,000 in medical bills instead of getting a free shot. I don’t want him to brrrd.
That's also just a cover. Well, maybe some religious people believe it but there's a bigger goal here as well. What many republicans really want is women working for the benefit of society and men without monetary compensation and thus total dependence on their husbands again. The goal is removing women's agency in all areas of life. Even if not every women can or will get pregnant, more women losing the ability to participate in society at large is going to affect every woman.
Ah, but you need to go deeper as THAT'S a cover for the real reason. They want more control over people who don't have sufficient power tokens (money). Keep people poor and impoverished and they won't have time or energy to do more than be good little worker bees who vote against their own interests due to lack of education.
But only punishing the sluts that won't fuck them, though. All of these assholes pushing these draconian legislations are either incels, hypocritical liars, or insane frothing fanatics.
Ugh. That kinda grosses me out. I mean, it's obviously disgusting already but just connecting incel to the people pushing these laws just cranks the gross and creepy dials WAY past 11. Kept going and snapped the dials right off. Just the idea of the worst case types wanting it to be LAW that women have to sleep with them.. Now I'm getting mad and want to hurl.
Doctors will just straight up lie of women who want to their tubes tied. Not just at Catholic Hospitals. I've seen it happen so many times. One woman in particular didn't want kids, they told her the surgery was too dangerous unless she had at least one. She did (not by choice). They wouldn't do it until she had one more. She had another (again not by choice). Still wouldn't do it. Saw a different doctor, gave her a hysterectomy instead with no argument. I don't even understand the motivation.
Requiring husbands approval is BS, but other than that an elective hysterectomy should absolutely be more involved in getting approved for, as it is a significantly more invasive operation.
I hate my OB for many reasons but at the very least last appointment I told him part of my birth plan was doing a tubal if he has to go in anyway and he did not question it at all whatsoever just not and said okay we'll put it on the chart
Heck. Our doctor asked my wife in front of me 'Seeing as this will be your second, want me to cut the tubes while I'm down there.' As if my opinion would have mattered.
Yeah, absolutely should be up to her, although I'd hope you'd talk with your partner about any surgery before getting it, really. Especially something like that. They don't get to make the decision for you, but it seems reasonable to talk with them about it.
Ok, look, not trying to completely refute the point being made here, because yes I agree we have atrocious equality issues, but this is not really comparing apples to apples here, is it? A vasectomy is an insanely low-risk, impermanent outpatient procedure that really doesn’t even have a legitimate recovery period. A hysterectomy is a crazy high-risk procedure that is irreversible with permanent hormonal traumas to the body and a near lifelong recovery process. I don’t believe in unnecessarily
I fail to see how asking the husband or suggesting a woman "may change her mind" solves any of this (esp bc she'll sign paperwork preventing future lawsuits). Pregnancy/birth is also high risk (and increasingly dangerous in the US), far more expensive for the patient, and has one of the highest rates of suing docs/hospitals. As a systematic issue, many institutions do not believe women's pain or choices. Medical institutions included.
Part of the discrepancy here is that twitter post is talking about tubal ligations, not hysterectomies. Tubal ligations are the female equivalent of a vasectomy, are reversible, and commonly requested to be done alongside a C-section birth when they're already cut open.
NOT “female equivalent to a vasectomy”!! 1st: Tubal ligation requires FULL (laparoscopic) SURGERY under general anesthesia— I had this! Vasectomies take (usually!) 15 mins in dr’s office with just a local (& a Xanax to relax the guy) usually— I used to assist these as urology med. asst. But! Shouldn’t consider EITHER procedure as “reversible”!!! They aren’t really — only kinda, maybe… I’m VERY pro both these procedures (for single or married folk!) but dismayed so many consider them impermanent!
2/3 taking choices away from people, but you're asking a liable medical facility to make decisions that they will be held accountable for, AND that you could very plausibly sue them for. Cost of procedure is directly tied to risks involved; that's how it works. My vasectomy was like less than $1,500 before insurance. My tonsillectomy was something like $17,000, and that's still a pretty tame, routine procedure. A hysterectomy is far more complicated than a tonsillectomy. It’s not about taking
3/3 choices away from certain groups of people. It’s simply about incurring the risks of operating on a 20-something human when malpractice insurance likely doesn’t cover certain scenarios. Believe me, if there was good, risk-free money to be made doing this, they’d be doing it. I’m not saying it’s necessarily fair, but it’s purely about money, not sexism.
Not sure my comment went through, trying again...I fail to see how asking the husband solves any of this. Pregnancy/birth is also high risk (and increasingly dangerous in the US), far more expensive for the patient, and has one of the highest rates of suing docs/hospitals. As a systematic issue, many institutions do not believe women's pain or choices. That's a fact backed by numerous studies.
You’ve missed my point entirely. I did not say biases and systemic issues don’t exist in medical communities. I am simply saying comparing ease of access to both of those procedures is wildly illogical. The husband signs paperwork not to “give permission to the woman,” but to also acknowledge his legal rights in litigation. And no, you can’t just draft endless ess paperwork preventing lawsuits. The legal system doesn’t work that way, hence precedents. A medical co. can conjure up whatever 1/2
2/2 paperwork that they want, but if the legal system and insurance companies reject it as non-binding, they could still have a company-ending lawsuit that ruins them. All I’m saying is that this is particular example given in the comparison is a decision (albeit an unfair one) that is based purely on money, not sexism.
Adult tonsillectomies carry a much higher risk of complications than adolescent tonsillectomies, and there's a lot of doctors/surgeons that won't do adult tonsillectomies because of that. Had one in my 20s, and every GP and dentist I've had since (moved a lot) has asked who did it for recommendation purposes.
Understood. I had mine out in my 30’s and it was a ROUGH recovery due to my age. I thought I was ready for the pain, but dear god was I mistaken. Don’t get me wrong, still glad I did it and would do it again, but I didn’t realize it was one of the most painful adult procedures out there. 3 weeks of total Hell. And the surgeon did a fabulous job at that.
Isn't a hysterectomy the removal of an organ? A vasectomy they just cut your ball tubes. They can fix that again if you want. (this isn't a argument about choice, but treating them differently is understandable as one is much more permanent than the other)
Yes. And the first two screenshots above are about tubal ligation, which is essentially doing the same thing to the fallopian tubes that is done to the vas deferens in vasectomy. Tubal ligation is reversible like vasectomy but still more involved ( though easily done during a C-section delivery). However, the stories above (and many, many others like them) make it pretty clear that the seriousness of the surgery is not the reason for these doctors’ reluctance.
A tubal is reversible, but has a low success rate for women to conceive after reconnecting the tubes. However it's becoming more common for a Salpingectomy to be performed nowadays, which is the removal of the fallopian tubes. Completely removing the tubes lowers a woman's risk of ovarian cancer compared to a tubal ligation. This cannot be reversed, however a woman can still become pregnant by IVF, if they choose to be.
Yeah the commenter said hysterectomy but the post says tubal ligation. Tubal ligation is “tube tying”. Generally considered more difficult to perform and more difficult to reverse than a vasectomy. However, definitely should NEVER have to come with permission. Should just be a normal convo about risks and done if informed consent is given
Sure, but a hysterectomy is a pretty significant surgery. I don't blame surgeons for balking at a big operation because the patient has that preference.
While that's true, all that's needed is a form for the patient to fill out. Signed by the woman. She understands the risks, and takes them. Shit, I had to sign one before having a jaw tooth filled. Why would the doctor need the husband's approval?
swiggityswootypointandshooty
Searching for a logical reason in USA legal system?
MyBedroomIsSiberia
Now imagine also having to get permission from your spouse
ConfettiPanda
When my Mom was 55 she had a uterine prolapse (guess I left a time bomb in there) and a spot on her ovary. She wanted a hysterectomy, but no. The male docs said she might want more kids and refused to operate. Wanted her to just use a pessary, and they’d just keep an eye on the spot. She went thru 3 male docs to get a female who asked her why she wanted to keep her uterus, and did the surgery after my mom broke down crying, saying that she didn’t. The spot had doubled in size, and was cancerous
revenantape
jbrightmans
I wonder if he got that shirt on Amazon because I have exactly the same one
Ghlargh
I know some places demand or at least strongly advice that you get some sperm frozen in case you change your mind in the future.
Mediocreclient
I'm a little torn on this one; the psych eval isn't actually an 'evaluation' at all: it's meant to force you to take some time to think about your decision, and to see if there's any hesitancy on your part before they start slicing and dicing. I can kind of appreciate an institutional-level "but are you REALLY sure" waiting period.
whatsisname
There are some artistic liberties taken with the story, for comedy, you know.
TCGView
I feel like I've heard this bit before. Like years ago.
iShadows
"If you crazy ones don't have kids, how will we ever stay in business in psychiatry? Now get out there and fuck, we need the money."
FlyingRhino
I kind of want one, but I'm not sure if it will decrease the amount of splooge. I like sploogin
flexstar
TouchMyInfection
"A lot of vasectomy chat" from MBMBAM podcast: https://youtu.be/t1Ky_nWMwps
amundost
I have 4 kids... when I got mine, they just went, thats fair
vigilante397
Yeah I got mine like a month after my third was born, and they just said "you're done now for sure?" and I said yup, so they got me snipped.
JCBalance
Tom Cross? David Segura?
Tominator2000
Sounds like his friend didn't even vasillate.
skipweasel
There's a vas deferens in the spelling.
Tominator2000
tacopartyinyourmouth
I had to get a psych eval for my tubal. It's like the medical community exists soley to shame women for wanting control of their bodies
MedicSailor
Buddy got a vestecomy back in his ewlry/ mif 20's after getting out of the Navy, he had to search extensively for a Dr. who would perform his, others flat out refused due to his age. Maybe a psych. eval., would've been good in his case, because turns out it's not that he wouldn't want kids, but that 2 different adult women molested him before the age of 16, one for years, and he's terrified he might fail his kids. (was his moms fault, she ignored his attempts to say something was wrong)
SJBSavageInk
Both men and women. Self advocate. Doctors are just people that read books and opinions are not medical advice, just people being assholes. If a doctor does this. Find a different doctor. r/childfree on reddit has a list of doctors that don't suck for every state. If you need that kind of help, please go look at list.
bunnyrut
Normalize saying "is that a professional medical fact or your personal opinion?"
artificialrosa
A vasectomy is completely reversible. The evaluation is totally unnecessary.
whatsisname
"Completely" - no. Successful reversal rates range between 30-95% depending on age, time since the operation, and other factors. Not even remotely "completely".
AawesomeAardvaark
*sometimes
Catterverse
When I was 22 I wanted to get mine tied. They said I was too young and to wait until I'm 27. When I turned 27 I came back. But they told me I was at the start of my life and should wait until I find a husband. I don't want to get married... I'm 30 now and going to try again. Curious what it'll be this time
rubypilgrim
dear god this shit is still going on.
bunnyrut
r/childfree has a list of doctors all over who don't make you jump through hoops.
PooPculture
That's so fucked up. it all comes down to reproductive rights and no one should be able to make that decision for your own body or defer that decision.
amiurume
Just before my vasectomy they asked me why I was getting the procedure. I said "so I don't have kids... Is there another reason?". There was not. I have no idea why they asked.
slyonegambit
I've heard it's like this with some places but when I got mine during the consult the doc was like "so you don't want kids?" And I said "nope" and that was that
DerpMeister
In a country with a working social and health system, a check like that makes sense to identify people that suffer from a serious psychological condition which makes them seek ways to harm themselves. They could be offered medical help to treat that condition if it exists. In a christofascist society of course, such requirements would just be made up to block people from making life decisions that differ from the norms imposed by the society, no matter what their mental state is.
DerpMeister
It's telling, by the way, that the (US?) audience doesn't get this and just laughs about the apparent irony.
yeahhedugit
There's a vas deferens between being too crazy to have kids and crazy because you have kids.
AdultsOnlyMinecraft
BoatToRecovery
mylastsecondonearth
Classic cock-22
thedewser
ValidGirthCertificate
I got denied because im not 30 yet. My genes suck. And i don't like kids. What else do i need
in70x
If your genes suck so bad then how’d you pick such a cool creative user name? I won’t let you talk to yourself like that fam.
ValidGirthCertificate
I just stole the username from a meme. And my gf gave me a certificate which stated "Girth certificate". And it's valid till the day i die.
in70x
Lmao savage I love it
ValidGirthCertificate
Yes. She is. God, i love her
wiltsjunk
Not sure where you live but when I got mine that were like "are you sure?" And I said "yup." And they said "ok." (Living in Philadelphia.)
ValidGirthCertificate
Austria. And apparently many people who got one didn't have a problem with it. On the other hands, they have kids and are well over 30
4vie
And then they pulled out the ice-cream scooper.
in70x
Ahoy there. I live in West Chester. Although I do need to move up to Boston for work soon.
drGrafenberg
I think it’s to assess if the person is in the right state of mind to undergo voluntary irreversible surgery. Anything else seems odd.
gypsyspot
Do they require this for plastic surgery. Face lift? implants? hair plugs? What about medicines with major potential. side effects. They test your liver for accutane, but they don't require a psyche eval despite it potentially causing severe depression, birth defects, liver issues, brain pressure, and others. That's an example off the top of my head, I'm sure there are better examples. It's just curious.
TrappedInABubbleGumFactory
Exactly. No one “fails” the eval - it provides litigation protection to the doctor who performs the operation, so the patient can’t come back later and claim they didn’t understand what was being done to them
MotorBoatMyButtCheeks
Not irreversible
TheBigBadBonerBiter
No, they're pretty much considered irreversible. Sources; the doctor who performed mine & the little pamphlet they give you after the initial consult.
MotorBoatMyButtCheeks
vindik8or
It's potentially reversible, but pretty far from guaranteed.
MotorBoatMyButtCheeks
drGrafenberg
They don’t count as reversible around here, I asked my doctor and she said “don’t count on second chances” - it’s very much case by case.
MotorBoatMyButtCheeks
drGrafenberg
Was your joke some sort of play at something I spelled wrong?
MotorBoatMyButtCheeks
It's not really my joke, the writers of the office wrote the joke. It's not meant to be taken seriously, so your earnest reply makes it seem that you missed that point, or like in my reply gif, you didn't catch the joke. I wasn't actually trying to make a comment on vasectomies.
RexNihil
A vasectomy is very much reversible. You may be thinking of a hysterectomy. Which should be much easier for someone to get than it is.
drGrafenberg
It is very much not guaranteed.
njessup1992
50% success rate for vasectomy reversals.
CatShadowleaf
Which is still not 0%
Chriswagon1
But still a far cry from calling it "reversible" legally
valkrez
Is it a "far cry"? Or is a 50% chance?
PhantomPhotoSesh5
When I got my vasectomy the doctor doing the surgery was very kind, gentle, and knowledgeable. After a successful surgery, I told him, if it wasn't so weird I would refer you to a friend.
vigilante397
I absolutely recommended my urologist to my friends after my vasectomy, he was great. If anyone in the Bakersfield, CA area is looking to get snipped Dr. Waguespack is excellent. Only downside was they don't do sperm count testing in house so I had to go to an external lab for testing afterward.
CitizenNinja
There's dozens of us, dozens!
Etherealvalentine
Actually thank you
Etherealvalentine
Say hello to the Bakersfield bus pirates
RichardPotato
You gotta see Dr. Dick Choppa, he's the best
threepotatoesinatrenchcoat
There seriously was a urologist in Austin, USA named Dick Chopp. Look him up
dbsportsdetroit
There used to be one down the street from where I lived named "Dr. Nutting".
DonaldFuck
Get to the Choppa.
spacemanspliff14
Why would it be weird?
bunnyishungry
They had to kiss before the vasectomy...I think. I don't know I never had a vasectomy.
Diplocrap
Uhh, I had a vasectomy, and I didn’t kiss the doctor. …Now I feel ripped off.
FenRirTenHoor
Had the snip, can confirm the kiss part. That is why I chose a female doctor.
Larktonguesinadicecup
I just gave mine a quick peck and said no homo. It doesn't have to be weird. He's like almost 70 anyway
AawesomeAardvaark
Mine was cute (no homo) and around my age so it went way further than a peck. Let's just say the ol tubes needed to be fully emptied before getting snipped (no homo tho).
MotorBoatMyButtCheeks
LobMob
So you want to either allow 16 year old to adopt kids or have the government either ban sex for minors, enact forced abortions or adoptions? Have you been thinking this through?
ShowMeYourBoardgames
Forced abortions? You realize the problem is the opposite and many people no longer have access to abortion. I think they're talking about forced birth
NivalisAngelus
They're absolutely talking about forced birth, because many places are pushing to make abortion illegal in all cases. (even for young girls...).
idiotsonfire
Yeah, because turns out, we never fucking had separation of church and state in the fucking slightest and its all been a bigass gaslighting session about how much the constitution or founding fathers "matter."
MotorBoatMyButtCheeks
Right, but want to know something funny
idiotsonfire
Yeah, they kept fucking slaves. They were fucking psychopathic as a result, and couldn't even figure out how to write, unequivocally, "The second amendment is to regulate the foundation of a state military that will serve under the purview of the government as well as answer the Federal government."
amipretty
SealOnLand
If she got pregnant, it means it's part of god's plan. So it's fiiiine (yeah doesn't make sense)
DaveSamsonite
One of my coworkers is certain that in a vasectomy, the male member is removed. I said, “of course, it’s why so many women want men to have it done.” He is also wildly anti-vax and has had Covid 5 times. Hospitalized twice. Probably ran up $200,000 in medical bills instead of getting a free shot. I don’t want him to brrrd.
mypepperonihasafirstname
That’s an excellent point.
SwagicalYololord
No the suffering of pregnancy and childbirth is what makes her mature enough to raise a child! /s
SerialChickenLover
You would think the government would be in the practice of taking kids away from underage mothers by now.
AnTwizz
That seems like the next step. I don't like that you made me think of this reality.
eepsheep
We have to be one step before Gilead before that one. We're still like 3 steps out. We're definitely safe.
kerms
Because it's all a cover for their real reason: punishing "sluts".
LadyLurkingham
That's also just a cover. Well, maybe some religious people believe it but there's a bigger goal here as well. What many republicans really want is women working for the benefit of society and men without monetary compensation and thus total dependence on their husbands again. The goal is removing women's agency in all areas of life. Even if not every women can or will get pregnant, more women losing the ability to participate in society at large is going to affect every woman.
LadyLurkingham
Not that it would even possible to go back to the way it was now with how high rent and the cost of living is.
LordofGoats
Ah, but you need to go deeper as THAT'S a cover for the real reason. They want more control over people who don't have sufficient power tokens (money). Keep people poor and impoverished and they won't have time or energy to do more than be good little worker bees who vote against their own interests due to lack of education.
Neurisko
But only punishing the sluts that won't fuck them, though. All of these assholes pushing these draconian legislations are either incels, hypocritical liars, or insane frothing fanatics.
NivalisAngelus
Ugh. That kinda grosses me out. I mean, it's obviously disgusting already but just connecting incel to the people pushing these laws just cranks the gross and creepy dials WAY past 11. Kept going and snapped the dials right off. Just the idea of the worst case types wanting it to be LAW that women have to sleep with them.. Now I'm getting mad and want to hurl.
marthafarquar
As least its easier than getting approved for a hysterectomy -
ivegotaflippingun
Interesting... I had to sign for my husband's vasectomy
CorGoBrrrr
Doctors will just straight up lie of women who want to their tubes tied. Not just at Catholic Hospitals. I've seen it happen so many times. One woman in particular didn't want kids, they told her the surgery was too dangerous unless she had at least one. She did (not by choice). They wouldn't do it until she had one more. She had another (again not by choice). Still wouldn't do it. Saw a different doctor, gave her a hysterectomy instead with no argument. I don't even understand the motivation.
whatsisname
Requiring husbands approval is BS, but other than that an elective hysterectomy should absolutely be more involved in getting approved for, as it is a significantly more invasive operation.
tesseract4d2
I'd definitely talk to a lawyer after that. And possibly flip my shit on the doctor. And I'm a guy.
Wobbled
Likely only the case at religious hospitals, normal hospitals don't require spousal consent.
SlaynXenos
Friend of mine had a super hostile uterus, to the point she needed 2 blood transfusions in a week. DR lectured her about having one. :/
spookywhispering
I hate my OB for many reasons but at the very least last appointment I told him part of my birth plan was doing a tubal if he has to go in anyway and he did not question it at all whatsoever just not and said okay we'll put it on the chart
zalurker
Heck. Our doctor asked my wife in front of me 'Seeing as this will be your second, want me to cut the tubes while I'm down there.' As if my opinion would have mattered.
shinagami091
Grosses me out that the husband is allowed to be involved in that decision. It’s her body, not his.
AsAHistorian
Yeah, absolutely should be up to her, although I'd hope you'd talk with your partner about any surgery before getting it, really. Especially something like that. They don't get to make the decision for you, but it seems reasonable to talk with them about it.
marthafarquar
marthafarquar
kleinkaasje
… decides *HE* wants children
Drix1942
Ding ding ding!
Drix1942
Sounds to me like some doctors and lawmakers need a good ole 18th century slappin' sense into them because they seem to live in that time.
Freak0zoid
This all sounds normal and reasonable/s
Willowknowsall
Yes they didn't straight up. Tell him no. He's too young. Ask for his wife's permission. Any of those stupid things that they try to do to women
KWJester49
Dependa on the doctor. I had to get my exwifes approval, also had to have a special counseling because I wasn't 35 and only had 1 kid.
vigilance019
I had to get my wife's permission via signature before I could get a vasectomy, sooooo. And that was after two kids.
plainoldfool
It's also not uncommon for a man to need his wife's approval in order to have a vasectomy
laserfork
What region has this requirement?
plainoldfool
Not regional. It's doctor by doctor and up to their discretion
vigilance019
I'm in New Mexico and the public family planning clinic required approval from my wife for me to get a vasectomy.
dirtyketchup
Ok, look, not trying to completely refute the point being made here, because yes I agree we have atrocious equality issues, but this is not really comparing apples to apples here, is it? A vasectomy is an insanely low-risk, impermanent outpatient procedure that really doesn’t even have a legitimate recovery period. A hysterectomy is a crazy high-risk procedure that is irreversible with permanent hormonal traumas to the body and a near lifelong recovery process. I don’t believe in unnecessarily
Fitall101
I fail to see how asking the husband or suggesting a woman "may change her mind" solves any of this (esp bc she'll sign paperwork preventing future lawsuits). Pregnancy/birth is also high risk (and increasingly dangerous in the US), far more expensive for the patient, and has one of the highest rates of suing docs/hospitals. As a systematic issue, many institutions do not believe women's pain or choices. Medical institutions included.
Einbrecher
Part of the discrepancy here is that twitter post is talking about tubal ligations, not hysterectomies. Tubal ligations are the female equivalent of a vasectomy, are reversible, and commonly requested to be done alongside a C-section birth when they're already cut open.
dirtyketchup
Ok that’s totally fair. My mistake about misreading that. I thought they were comparing hysterectomies.
StepRightUp
NOT “female equivalent to a vasectomy”!! 1st: Tubal ligation requires FULL (laparoscopic) SURGERY under general anesthesia— I had this! Vasectomies take (usually!) 15 mins in dr’s office with just a local (& a Xanax to relax the guy) usually— I used to assist these as urology med. asst. But! Shouldn’t consider EITHER procedure as “reversible”!!! They aren’t really — only kinda, maybe… I’m VERY pro both these procedures (for single or married folk!) but dismayed so many consider them impermanent!
dirtyketchup
2/3 taking choices away from people, but you're asking a liable medical facility to make decisions that they will be held accountable for, AND that you could very plausibly sue them for. Cost of procedure is directly tied to risks involved; that's how it works. My vasectomy was like less than $1,500 before insurance. My tonsillectomy was something like $17,000, and that's still a pretty tame, routine procedure. A hysterectomy is far more complicated than a tonsillectomy. It’s not about taking
dirtyketchup
3/3 choices away from certain groups of people. It’s simply about incurring the risks of operating on a 20-something human when malpractice insurance likely doesn’t cover certain scenarios. Believe me, if there was good, risk-free money to be made doing this, they’d be doing it. I’m not saying it’s necessarily fair, but it’s purely about money, not sexism.
Fitall101
Not sure my comment went through, trying again...I fail to see how asking the husband solves any of this. Pregnancy/birth is also high risk (and increasingly dangerous in the US), far more expensive for the patient, and has one of the highest rates of suing docs/hospitals. As a systematic issue, many institutions do not believe women's pain or choices. That's a fact backed by numerous studies.
dirtyketchup
You’ve missed my point entirely. I did not say biases and systemic issues don’t exist in medical communities. I am simply saying comparing ease of access to both of those procedures is wildly illogical. The husband signs paperwork not to “give permission to the woman,” but to also acknowledge his legal rights in litigation. And no, you can’t just draft endless ess paperwork preventing lawsuits. The legal system doesn’t work that way, hence precedents. A medical co. can conjure up whatever 1/2
dirtyketchup
2/2 paperwork that they want, but if the legal system and insurance companies reject it as non-binding, they could still have a company-ending lawsuit that ruins them. All I’m saying is that this is particular example given in the comparison is a decision (albeit an unfair one) that is based purely on money, not sexism.
Einbrecher
Adult tonsillectomies carry a much higher risk of complications than adolescent tonsillectomies, and there's a lot of doctors/surgeons that won't do adult tonsillectomies because of that. Had one in my 20s, and every GP and dentist I've had since (moved a lot) has asked who did it for recommendation purposes.
dirtyketchup
Understood. I had mine out in my 30’s and it was a ROUGH recovery due to my age. I thought I was ready for the pain, but dear god was I mistaken. Don’t get me wrong, still glad I did it and would do it again, but I didn’t realize it was one of the most painful adult procedures out there. 3 weeks of total Hell. And the surgeon did a fabulous job at that.
Pandab13r
Isn't a hysterectomy the removal of an organ? A vasectomy they just cut your ball tubes. They can fix that again if you want. (this isn't a argument about choice, but treating them differently is understandable as one is much more permanent than the other)
NobleSavant
They specifically tell you that a vasectomy may not reverse and to treat it as permanent. That's not the reason.
chencking
They say that as a disclaimer because they are obligated to tell you of medical risks. It doesn't mean they believe it.
StepRightUp
Do NOT get a vasectomy thinking it’s reversible!!!
EndofDaisies
Yes. And the first two screenshots above are about tubal ligation, which is essentially doing the same thing to the fallopian tubes that is done to the vas deferens in vasectomy. Tubal ligation is reversible like vasectomy but still more involved ( though easily done during a C-section delivery). However, the stories above (and many, many others like them) make it pretty clear that the seriousness of the surgery is not the reason for these doctors’ reluctance.
stonecoldpuma
A tubal is reversible, but has a low success rate for women to conceive after reconnecting the tubes. However it's becoming more common for a Salpingectomy to be performed nowadays, which is the removal of the fallopian tubes. Completely removing the tubes lowers a woman's risk of ovarian cancer compared to a tubal ligation. This cannot be reversed, however a woman can still become pregnant by IVF, if they choose to be.
derrymerbles
Yeah the commenter said hysterectomy but the post says tubal ligation. Tubal ligation is “tube tying”. Generally considered more difficult to perform and more difficult to reverse than a vasectomy. However, definitely should NEVER have to come with permission. Should just be a normal convo about risks and done if informed consent is given
vindik8or
Hysterectomy is not the same as tubal ligation.
DontBringAShootyToAStabbyFight
@vindik8or THANK YOU
yeahhedugit
True, and that makes the post so much worse for women. Wtf the rest of my gender?
TrueNorthernLights
True, but if I want my uterus out for reasons, it should be my choice, not some future husband.
Tristanisawesome
Sure, but a hysterectomy is a pretty significant surgery. I don't blame surgeons for balking at a big operation because the patient has that preference.
Tristanisawesome
Also a vasectomy doesn't require anesthesia
TrueNorthernLights
While that's true, all that's needed is a form for the patient to fill out. Signed by the woman. She understands the risks, and takes them. Shit, I had to sign one before having a jaw tooth filled. Why would the doctor need the husband's approval?
markiel
Yeah, but i believe it's not as major of a surgery
stonecoldpuma
A hysterectomy is more major than a tubal. You should look into what the difference is if you're unaware.
markiel
That what i said
AawesomeAardvaark
No you didn't. The way you wrote that, it means the first thing (hysterectomy) is not as bad.