just read the tl;dr

Aug 29, 2016 9:48 AM

CallmeJack02

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2962

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1056

"but OP, that's islamophobia"

No, it's not.

islam is a faith that is centuries old, and like many other religions was created in a time when man understood little about the world and the natural processes that occur within it. 

This in itself is not an issue, the issue is that unlike many other faiths, islam has failed to modernise with the times, even the catholic church will admit that the big bang created the universe and that evolution is the process that god created us through, but islam has consistently refused to modernise and has even actively punished those who tried to do so.

so OP, what the fuck does that have to do with isis? simple

the islam that isis practices is the same islam the prophet muhammed practised. The destruction and execution of people who won't convert, the destruction of non islamic art and architecture for promoting idolatry, the "marrying off" of captured women and children as rape slaves and "wives" the buggering of young boys, all done with the complete and total blessing of allah.

But OP, you're a white male in the west, what would you know about islam or the people's who lived in that area of the world?

I lived there since i was 3 weeks old, and only returned to the west to start secondary education at a boarding school. I've spent my entire life being told - mainly by the locals in the areas we lived - how dangerous it would be to go too far from the house, how this group on this street would come after me if they saw me, what they'd do to me.

Hell, when we lived in iran my house was molotoved twice on the anniversary of their islamic revolution, which surprise surprise turned the country into a theocracy and thoroughly rinsed the country down the shitter.

and one more point, here in the west we have freedom of speech and discussion; we can question and challenge any ideology we want without fear of reprisal. I'm not being racist, because Islam isn't a race, it's an ideology a set of ideas and beliefs and nothing more. If we're not allowed to question, to point out contradictions and stand up for our own beliefs, we're no better off now than we were in the dark ages when the catholic church burnt scientists for heresy.

tl;dr the islam isis practices is the same Muhammed practised

NO, my Muslim GF believes in evolution and Big Bang. She thinks God was behind both as do many of her Muslim friends and family.

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

@OP would do well to reference passages from the Qur'an to help prove his point.

9 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 2

TLDR ops a moron and doesnt know what he's talking about

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

meh, long story short is that religion can be very, veeery easily twisted into hateful bullshit, and right now ISIS is all over that

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

TLDR:you've got an axe to grind & are ignoring the major interpretations that are followed so you can claim ISIS practice "true" islam. Pfft

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 3

Oh no. Random poster on imgur thinks he's an Islamic scholar.

9 years ago | Likes 31 Dislikes 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU&feature=youtu.be&t=2m14s Yeah, let's hear it from an actual Islamic Scholar!

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 5

Anecdote evidence does not equal truth. How about you source your claims?

9 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 10

If you read about Wahhabism it's pretty clear that they follow a strict hardline interpretation of the Quran and the Hadiths.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 3

No more so than the Westboro Baptist Church practices genuine Christianity

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 6

I dont remember WBC killing gays, cutting off heads, and raping children

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 11

give them power, you´d be dead in no time.

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 4

Doubt it. They're mainly interested in baiting people into assaulting them so they can sue.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 7

Incorrect. Isis have gathered renewed perceptions about Islam. Through significant people such as Sayyid Qutb who wrote his own 1/

9 years ago | Likes 19 Dislikes 3

Interpretations about Islam. Muslim adherents then saw this as a renewed experience of the Islam faith as the old one was outdated 2/

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 1

Unfortunately, terrorist groups such as Isis now use these newer teachings as their motives for attacks on non-muslim adherents 3/3

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

"Catholic Church will admit that the big bang created the universe" A Catholic priest laid the ground work for the whole theory (Lemaitre)

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

Not really anything to do with OPs post just a fun fact that people don't usually realize

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

TL;DR Every other religion can pick and choose which parts of their holy book they follow; but every TRUE follower of Islam follows [1]

9 years ago | Likes 34 Dislikes 6

Also known as the "no true scotsman"-fallacy.

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 1

holy text to the letter, even the contradictory parts. [2]

9 years ago | Likes 29 Dislikes 4

[Citation needed]

9 years ago | Likes 23 Dislikes 5

Actually suicide bombing is definitely against multiple passages of the Quran. Also, genuine Christianity and Judaism if you know (1/2)

9 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 1

anything about the bible is as bad as a fundementalist interpretation of the Quran. I mean they are all Abrahamic religions anyway. (2/3)

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

Why the fuck does this shitty uniformed baiting keep reaching the front page? I am very nearly done with this fucking community (3/3)

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Also anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything on its own.

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Early Islam tolerated other religions...for taxes

9 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 4

Maybe not helping the people trying to modernize Islam is the problem, as opposed to saying 'This is how Islam is and always will be'

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

also, if you look back at history, islam was very progressive until wahabism took over as a political system and fucked the whole ME

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

There are some people that follow Islam that don't want to see the death of all non believers correct?

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Most would be correct. but 8% of 1.5 billion is still a huge amount of people okay with suicide bombing in Islam's name

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 4

But that's still 92% that aren't.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

All religions have different sects and denominations. ISIS practices Islam less as a religion and more as a political system.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

To equate one group as practicing "true Islam" is like saying Catholicism is truer than Protestantism in Christianity.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

We're always ready to separate disparate parts from other religions as just being whacky outsiders but we wanna homogenize Islam.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Its time to focus less on the religion and more on the cunts killing people and the circumstances that allow said cunts to gain power.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

"Religious leaders" cherry pick out the teachings, that favor their own ideologies. That's a big problem.

9 years ago | Likes 52 Dislikes 4

Watch this, please. https://youtu.be/bV710c1dgpU?t=2m14s

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 2

This doesn't make islam the enemy. It makes fundamentalism the enemy.

9 years ago | Likes 48 Dislikes 15

*Wahhabism to be more precise, which is... surprise, a hardline strict interpertation of the Quran and Hadiths.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Why not both?

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 10

Because making Islam the enemy only makes more fundamentalists.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 4

"But if I don't blame it on islam I can't justify my bigotry." -OP

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 18

What bigotry?

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

If you need to ask that question then I doubt explaining it would do much good.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 11

Right cause actually having proof of bigotry is not needed in this day in age to be called a bigot i forgot

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

And for the record: OP is a bigot because his ignorant narrative ostracises 1.6 billion people by falsely portraying a radical minority 1)

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 6

No because in this day and age you can't act like a bigot and expect to get away with it without being called out for it.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 7

What do you think fundamentalism is? If adherence to the "fundamentals" of Islam is the enemy, then yes, Islam is the enemy.

9 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 11

People are the enemy. If westboro baptist church became the state religion of the USA, you think they wouldn't burn down any other churches?

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

What if I'm a Christian and I just like to drag gay people behind trucks like ISIS does? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Then you either need to go to jail, or you're an asshole for trying to throw smoke and deflect the conversation.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 3

If adherence to the "fundamentals" of Christianity needs to go to jail, then is Christianity the enemy?

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

edit: adherents, sorry

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Looks like you had to work hard to not get my point there.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 5

What was your point? Define fundamentalism in your own words.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

In practical terms blaming Islam is casting too wide a net. Blaming fundamentalists is covering the people actually causing problems. 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

You didn't define fundamentalism. Explain to me in detail what you think fundamentalism is.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Blaming Islam will only create more fundamentalists 2/2

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

Once again this seems to be an Islam-specific problem. We aren't afraid that criticizing Christianity will mobilize them to blow shit up.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

So, 'genuine' basically means 'fundamentalist' here? I dont think anyone would disagree that 'Isis is practicing fundamentalist islam'

9 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 9

given a fundamentalist faith is one simply stripped down to the core tenants, that doesn't dissuade my point

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 25

That's not what fundamentalist means. Fundamentalism is the -literal- adaptiation of the holy book of choice, big rules as small.

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 2

Except you cant make a theological explanation of the Quran comanding you to rape to make a captive a "muslim" woman?

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

But there are only 5 core tenants. And none of them prove your point.

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

So you're saying that as long as you follow the five pillars, you can disregard ANYTHING else from the Quran or the Hadiths? Even if the 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Quran itself says otherwise? 2/2

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Did @op just interview himself in this post? Can we do that?

9 years ago | Likes 800 Dislikes 10

It's how every fool makes his argument. Takes "begging the question" to a whole new level.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Let's go to @wombatfisher in be field to find out. Wombat?

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

Yeah, yeah it seems like we can do that. Back to you, @wombatfisher.

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

I applaud you

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You missed a great opportunity to answer your own question.

9 years ago | Likes 263 Dislikes 0

Darn it!

9 years ago | Likes 41 Dislikes 0

It's not too late. Just refer to yourself as other Barry

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

Remember Barry, we can do anything

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

That's right other Barry, we can

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Apparently we can and that too without any conflicting ideas

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

He could have interviewed an empty chair at least.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I like to touche myself

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

As in give yourself good comebacks?

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

And then immediately acknowledge them, masturbatorily.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Well played.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As it is customary

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Leslie... you're doing it again... am I? I am...

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I'll allow it.gif

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Yes we can other Barry.

9 years ago | Likes 91 Dislikes 0

Haha was gonna say that

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes we can

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Well, there it is...

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Hahaa fuck i think he did. Should.. Should we all start doing this? I like this.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

We can, and do.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I think so

9 years ago | Likes 125 Dislikes 37

Nice

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I like your moxy

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

How do I feel about this? I must admit that whilst I feel a little conflicted it worked for this post.

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Points for "Can we do that?"

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I'm Muslim but I'm not ISIS, though, what do I do @OP?

9 years ago | Likes 208 Dislikes 39

be isis

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 7

As OP said Islam hasn't done much to modernize. You could help fix that through the power of the human voice. Hippy cyber out, PEACE!

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

are you for the raping and enslaving of women, the destruction of idols that don't pertain to your faith

9 years ago | Likes 39 Dislikes 77

No to the first, but don't kinkshame, dude. Yes to the second, but only ideologically. I'm not a vandal.

9 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 8

well then you're a pretty bad muslim, you're ignoring direct orders of your holy prophet

9 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 40

So anyone who doesn't fit under your definition isn't a muslim? No True Scotsman much?

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Don't remember him ever telling me that, but sure thing. I guess I'll start with the raping and the vandalism tomorrow.

9 years ago | Likes 29 Dislikes 5

rapein the qu'ran 65;4 4;3 4;24 33;50 70;29-30. murder of non muslims in the Qu'ran 9;111 2;217 4;89 8;12 8;60

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 29

well, are you for the execution of apostates?

9 years ago | Likes 49 Dislikes 85

Nope. Apostasy isn't a crime in my country, anyway.

9 years ago | Likes 34 Dislikes 10

but it is in sharia law. so again, i don't think you're being a very good muslim

9 years ago | Likes 23 Dislikes 58

My entire life has been destroyed. Truly, you have swayed me with your words.

9 years ago | Likes 49 Dislikes 14

you're free to believe what you want, but don't put yourself in the dark so willingly

9 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 56

You're being narrowminded Op. The world isn't black and white. There are many different flavours of Islam, some good, some bad.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

I'll have the rum and raisin flavour of Islam!!!

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

He didn't say “all Muslims are with ISIS”, he said “it is wrong to claim that ISIS aren't Muslims”.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

That's fair. But if I want to be true to my faith, the OP is saying the ISIS way is the only way. Is he actually an ISIS recruiter?

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

He didn't say that either...

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

My advice would be, resist Wahhabism, Resist any Wahhabist tendencies in your local community, and... that's about it, with time 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

more moderate modes of Islam should naturally occur. 2/2

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Go to the big muslim meeting and raise the issue.

9 years ago | Likes 89 Dislikes 3

and then he gets beheaded

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 5

Do you want to @OP to get killed?

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 4

OP's not smart enough to find the big Muslim meeting.

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 2

Strap up.

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 4

Invite me to your Eid party.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

It's long over and my family does it low key anyway.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

The next one, silly. But I'm already invited to two. They are also low-key but in our neighborhood and everyone is invited.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Realize that you've become civilized.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

Basically, what does the OP expect me to do with this information? Join ISIS because they're actually 'true Muslims'?

9 years ago | Likes 95 Dislikes 19

You're supposed to understand that your people have progressed into civilization.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As a white Englishman, no do what every Muslim I have ever met in my working life has done, offer food and be a nice person

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 1

I don't know you, but I think much of the fear of Islam is rooted in its inability to "assimilate" to things western culture holds 1/?

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 4

Balance your faith with our culture, and assimilate to the degree necessary for peaceful coexistence in society. 4/4

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 4

As iddals. Freedom of speech, women's rights, things like this where, anyone can see, Islamic culture has lagged behind. What I think 2/?

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 4

You, and anyone of any faith for that matter can do, is find ways to set an example for both Muslims and Islamaphobes that shows you can 3/4

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 4

You could leave islam

9 years ago | Likes 19 Dislikes 19

Abandon the moral code you built your life around. Im an atheist, but my theist comrades often cannot frame moral issues without 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 8

Turning to god. The idea that you ask someone to abandon their way of life is morally repugnant and hypocritical. Basically. Fuck off.

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 6

It's not immoral to ask someone to change their valuesystem if said valuesystem is immoral. It's not hypocritical, why the fuck would it be?

9 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 6

Live your own life the way that makes you happy, don't hurt anyone else in the process. Even if a book says its okay.

9 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 4

I feel like every holy book has some less than savory comments on how to treat other people

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

but the book doesn't, I follow Mohammed with every footstep and I'm not ISIS

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 7

So you are ok with grown adults marrying 9 year old girls?

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 8

It's forbidden to marry an underage person, aisha wasn't, she already passed puberty and is mentally ready and conscious about it

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 4

Read the entire Koran, ignoring what other people have to say about it, and determine whether you want to live by its teachings.

9 years ago | Likes 33 Dislikes 8

That's a stupid idea with any holy book. You can't literally read any holy book and get an accurate idea- there's hundreds of years worth of

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 6

"Other people" didn't mean to imply the inclusion of scholarly interpretation or advanced study. It meant "Don't go in with preconceived (1)

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

notions that have been polluted by the media and your peers' ignorant ideas about it."

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

historical context and academia and adjoint texts.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 4

That's why you shouldn't read any holy books. They have nothing in them that has any worth in this day and age.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Every small tidbit of good you manage to find there can be found without any holy books.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

And I didn't say "literally read." I said "critically read." I never recommend a literalist viewpoint on ancient religious text.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

Actually, you just said "read the entire Koran", you never once used the word "critically"

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

*Meant. I apologize. My point remains. Reading the Holy Text of a religion for yourself is important, is it not?

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

fight for basic human rights with all of us & teach your children about modern society & give them the tools to be Muslims adapted to it.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Nothing. Live your nice modern life.

9 years ago | Likes 25 Dislikes 1

I like this cool and good advice. Thanks.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

It's really the best thing anyone could do. Every Muslim that lives a happy successful life is a slap in the face to ISIL and their 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

proves them wrong

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

ideals. They depend on Muslims down in a rut who think the world is against them and Islam. Every single person who lives a happy good 2/3

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Muhammad didn't kill Jews and Christians if they didn't convert. So you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

9 years ago | Likes 56 Dislikes 28

I dont like to confront religious people but just shut the fuck up once. Just for once .

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 16

Hes like the rest of them, throwing shit on islam and they dont even bother to back it up with proof

9 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 13

It is written in quran that all the hebrews and christians must be killed if they do not convert .

9 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 16

Technically it says any one, not just Hebrews/Christians.

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 4

Quran (2:193) "Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah(disbelief) and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 6

In war dummy. You don't expect to throw flowers in war, do you?

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 4

But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." 2/2

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

Yes, "Allah" meaning "god", which was the same god the Christians and the Jews worshiped.

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

Sure, good luck trying and get them all to agree on it though. Heck, we can't even get Arians and Chalcedonians to agree. :P

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Or are you trying to argue that Christians already follow the teachings of Muhammad?

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

They were worshipping the same god, just in different ways, which is why Islam referred to them as "The People of the Book" 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Fundamentalism in general is not a good thing

9 years ago | Likes 345 Dislikes 23

3 words that mean you're dealing with a pain in the ass, fundamentalism, Orthodoxy, and radical.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

It depends on your fundamentals.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Religion is an political invention, used to control the masses & functions best when it evolves with society.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

A lot things aren't good. Many things sound good on paper but fail when put into use. On the main reason communism still doesn't work.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It never occured to me such people (fundamentalist) would exist. I can see now why it would be a problem.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I'm a fundamental fundamentalist and take offense to that statement. haha

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yep. Even some of the most peaceful religions are corrupt if practiced fundamentally. Ever read Under the Banner of Heaven?

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

Fundamentalism is bad, extremism is bad, hypocrisy is bad.... where is anyone supposed to stand?

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

With empathy and compassion

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

it is not hippocratic to disregard teachings that dont fit with modern society,

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Just slightly left of centre lol

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

It's only bad when the fundamentals are as fucked as Islam.

9 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 11

Any fundamentalism is bad. Just look at how many people tried to block gay marriage on religious reasons.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 2

Fundamentalist Jainism isn't hurting anyone. This post isn't about fundamentalism. It's about Islam. Let's try and stay on topic.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Indeed. A Fundamentalist Jain is a nice person.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Are there even fundamentalist Jains? I've met like fifty, all wearing leather belts and leather shoes.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

In india, probably.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yeah I'm sure the victims of Timothy McVeigh, Anders Breivik, FARC, M19, the Bologne massacre, the Tamil Tigers, IRA,.. feel the same.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 6

Several of those had little to nothing to do with religion.

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 4

If you think that religion has a monopoly on fundamentalism, then you are sorely misinformed.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

Tim McVeigh is not the fucking same as ISIS. All the organizations you mentioned are political, not religious. Fuck off with this bullshit

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 4

Does it matter, all them fuckers are fundamental. Sure, in politics, but does a religious bullet hurt more than a political one?

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

Why do people defend these fucking savages? It's okay to shit on Islam. Stop white knighting for them

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Oh no the average jihadist has more in common with Timothy McVeigh as you'd think. Just as misguided, just as troubled. The only real 1)

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

difference is that while TM acted mostly alone, jihadists are often manipulated into believing a certain narrative by parasites who prey 2)

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

For a bunch of psychos this sure is some jolly cooperation /a/BocBx

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And pray tell, how is violence committed in the name of political fundamentalism more justified than in name of religious fundamentalism?

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

You mean political extremism. Like Russian nihilism. Please don't say "pray tell"; it's pathetic even if you were a true savant.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Then how do you respond to the fact that they have violated several passages and/or dictates of the religion?

9 years ago | Likes 377 Dislikes 85

If you want to learn more about "moderate Islam" Crowder does an excellent explination of it when h talks about talk Islam's channel

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And the fact that as he took more stuff as a warlord he became more violent and wrote more violent stuff for his people to follow.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 2

No religion is without its own contradictions.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 4

Just like moderate Muslims in the west, nobody follows their holy book exactly at this point

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

Because they're following examples set by Mohamed who raped pillaged and enslaved the middle east in his time and massively set then back.

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 11

And that was quite violent. I don't remember the word for it but it's the concept that his teachings were more important later.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

And Westboro Baptist Church work on Sundays.

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 4

they're just ignored jerks. The don't behead or boil people in tar

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

Malaeus Maleficarum. Spanish Inquisition. Crusades.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Later passages trumpf Early passages. So the later in the quran is, the More right it is.

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 4

Well, actually, they really haven't. It's absolutely trivial to find instructions to carry out military evangelism.

9 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

Except there is in fact a passage dictating to protect Christians and allow them to worship and they haven't done that. Also the passages>

9 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 5

9 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 5

9 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 5

Ahhh no, only if they pay a special tax, accept that they cannot build churches, be visible, etc etc. In practice, most competing religions

9 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 7

In Islam, if you kill infidels or die killing infidels you are forgiven of your violations. All religions have some funny absolution clause.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

The faith contridicing itself isn't the problem it's that the stuff Mohammed said later in his life is what he wanted them to follow.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

Like most religions, it's got a lot of contradictory statements in there. Pretty hard to follow all of the tenets exactly.

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 3

Well in that respect it seems to me it's hard to claim any method of following a religion is "genuine". I suppose at most you could say>

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Hence why no religion is great :D

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

They use abrogation to remove contradictions, which gives you what you currently see.

9 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 2

The way they do it is the "logical" way: If there is a contradiction, the passage that comes later in the chronology is the vald passage.

9 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

And due to the chronology of the koran, all the conquest, rape, pillaging, jihad etc related passages happen later in the chronology.

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 2

I respond by saying: if you only look at the early passages, you might be right. However consider the later passages, and the Islamically

9 years ago | Likes 68 Dislikes 8

It's kind of funny because the peaceful passages were apparently before the Jews and Christians refused to convert. The violent ones after.

9 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 2

essential principle of "Abrogation". The final word of Islam is militaristic and intolerant, and specifically overrides any gentler passages

9 years ago | Likes 70 Dislikes 6

Good on you, unfortunately not many people know that the Qur'an isn't in chronological order.

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

Ha +1

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

@hamsto24 is completelty correct. Apart from the 1st chapter, all the rest are ordered by length (! seriously !). There is no sequence to

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Easy. Everyone violates their religion.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

Not atheists

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Religion expects everyone to violate itself. That's kind of the point.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Even the most religious Christians have to violate several passages of the Bible because of contradictory information.

9 years ago | Likes 87 Dislikes 22

One of the core beliefs of theologically educated Christians is the fact that the Bible doesn't contradict itself, so...

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 3

My core belief is what you believe is false because what I believe that is true and I believe you're wrong.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Or just accept that not every out-of-context sentence you randomly pull from the Bible is a commandment.

9 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 4

Every person has a different interpretation/context they think is correct. Doesn't help to say a single person's is correct because famous.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

There's a clear hierarchy though. "Love your neighbor" is second only to "Love God," so if obeying another commandment causes you to 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

violate that you're doing it wrong. 2/2

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

This is true. if you follow a religion, odds are you are going to violate the rules of it. I think the point @OP is trying to make though1/?

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

is that in Christianity, they can be forgiven without an issue if they want. but Islam hasn't modernized enough to allow for that.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

Exactly so how can it be called "genuine"?

9 years ago | Likes 25 Dislikes 11

Because that's what faith is. They believe that their interpretation of God out of the 5000 other religions is the inky right way of underst

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Understanding*

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I think in this context "genuine" should be replaced by "original"

9 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 4

Even then it'd be a difficult argument to make. Maybe at the most we can take the passages where Mohamed speaks directly and compare>

9 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 7

9 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 7

Technically we're not even supposed to go to the bathroom.

9 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

I understood that reference.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Do you have any real examples or are you just regurgitating popular opinion?

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 7

Shellfish. Mixed fabrics. Stoning children for talking back to their parents. Finding the examples is not the hard part.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

There's several examples in the bible of commandments to kill others and yet doesn't "thou shalt not kill" sound familiar?

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

well, not literal commandments, but "you shall do this" things.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Thou shalt not kill is a commandment. But it's old testament so i don't know why people still use the 10 commandments

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Like what?

9 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 4

There is an answer for that. However you have to understand "context". It appears you dont.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 3

Bible has many weird rules this is just one of them. I don't remember context anymore since i haven't read bible in almost 10 years.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Wear mixed fabrics or eat certain foods in certain days. This is just what I've picked up from the religious side of my family hope it helps

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 3

There is an answer for that. However you have to understand "context". It appears you dont.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 5

Yeah that's fair, like I said it's just bits my family have spoke about, I'm non practising so not my thing, just thought it might help

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

You won't get an answer. It's a knee jerk response.

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 9

Stuff like what you can and can't eat, and can and can't wear. I can't really go more specific bc idk, but I think it's bad to *

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

1) A lot of Old Testament stuff is cultural laws for a specific group of people, not universal laws for a religion.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Former Christian here. That's not how it goes in the bible. NT overruled OT so the clothes, food, etc rules don't really apply.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Regardless, idiotic rules but that's religion for you.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Fair enough, cheers, hoped to educate got educated myself call that a win

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

So can I just ask, if NT overruled OT, why is homosexuality even still an issue? The NT doesn't, or scantly mentions it at all.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

2) Sort of like how there are dress restrictions and the like in the US Army, but they don't apply to America's population overall.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Thank you! I get tired of trying to explain this to folks that dont come for the lesson.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Thank you.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

the faith contradicts itself with great regularity, just like any other imperfect work of man.

9 years ago | Likes 358 Dislikes 88

There are no contradictions in the faith, when they have violated the passages they have not claimed that it is allowed by the faith

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 8

For example executing people by burning them is not allowed by the religion and ISIS have not claimed that it is allowed they just avoid it.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 6

So essentially you're admitting that this is a circular argument.

9 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 7

*facepalm* confirmation bias much? OP is making many points not just the singular. It's an extremely complex and nuanced situation obviously

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

like the part about stoning none virgins in the bible?

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

In other words your whole rant is nonsense and there's not such thing as "genuine" Islam.

9 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 15

Correct. ISIS practices a version of islam supported by the text, but calling it more genuine than many other interpretations is nonsense.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

Then it seems to me you cannot actually call any method of following a religion genuine. At best you could say it's X% accurate.

9 years ago | Likes 123 Dislikes 43

That's because every religion is man made. Even the regions before christianity and islam were man made.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

it's almost as if the divine message they claim to bring is bullshit

9 years ago | Likes 138 Dislikes 56

No god or kings. Only men.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

edgyyyy

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 6

MAN, I really like you.

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 10

Are you Ricky Gervais?

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Never heard anyone accuse any religion of that ever

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 4

Now you're just invalidating everything you've said. You aren't using very analytical language here, so your argument just falls to shit.

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 4

That makes no sense....

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You seem to be going out of your way to miss the point.

9 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 23

You're missing the point too. He's saying that every religion fails to follow their law as well as every set if laws have hypocricies

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Not claiming it to be but then it would be just as fallacious to call it genuine as if it matches the original format. It can't by nature.

9 years ago | Likes 33 Dislikes 30

You made little to no sense with this comment. Try once more

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 18

what he's saying is they haven't modernized, bottom line. they are still doing it as it was done 1400 years ago

9 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

thats so convoluted.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 4

You've just destroyed everything about your post with that response. Good job.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

We should let women write the bible, koran, and other story books. :)

9 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 21

AM I being downvoted for saying women should write religious texts, or for calling them "story books"? Either way it's pretty funny.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

damn man that'd only make em even harder to follow /s

9 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 9

wait for it.... Haha

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

But... they're already written...

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Basically the world would be a more peaceful place in religion just disappeared.

9 years ago | Likes 28 Dislikes 26

Yeah, it's not like there's ever been a violent, warmongering society that denounced religion as the "opiate of the masses" or anything.

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 3

If you're referencing WW2, those country leaders used the title of God on themselves to brainwash their citizens etc. Easy dictatorship.

9 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Hail Zorp!

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

In most cases, religion acts as a social bond. The more social bonds a person has, the less likely they're to take part in criminal activity

9 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 3

Travis Hirschi - Social Bond Theory

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

No. People will find other ways to create inside and outside groups. If not religion, then sports. If not sports, Pokemon.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Or how about we eradicate all religions except Hinduism an Buddhism cuz it seems like those are the most peaceful lol

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I went to high school with a caldwell.... you from Missouri?

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Nope lol

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Although I do believe religion generally causes violence, I also believe without religion, man would find new reasons to kill each other 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 1

2/2 Look throughout history, we've killed each other in mass numbers for a whole host of different reasons. Even now we are doing the same.

9 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

Yes, without a doubt we use other reasons to kill each other. But religion gives an easy and "fast" way to brainwash a large population.

9 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 5