jdk1
586153
2771
41
I stopped paying my taxes, and was rewarded by the fat-cat socialist government with free housing, food and clothes. Met some great friends along the way, too. Didn't cost me a cent, and I'm set for the next three years!
Cages are for prisoners waiting for medical appointments, counselling, or permanent cells.
Monkey in a cage
Affray
I bet half of those people are in there for downloading music.
CYAL8TR
Kill those on death row to free up space. Release those who were convicted of non violent crimes. Everyone else goes into a work program.
Kilau
Medical appointments? My tax money pays for prisoners to have healthcare but not for free people to see a doctor?
pandaslikebamboo
I doubt prison healthcare is the best but still, what you pointed out does make your system sound even stupider.
TheGhostofRepostPast
"We have guided missiles, and misguided men." -Martin Luther King Jr.
genvieve
The sad fact is the so called "war on drugs" makes up a lot of this population.
AFWolf2012
Maybe they ought to stop committing crimes? Maybe?
whyteraven74
Maybe we should stop increasing punishments for no reason.
AFWolf2012
That would require the justice system to actually work.
youaregoingtohavesomenewclothes
NO TOUCHING
veryimgurwow
Always money in the banana stand!
squip
Fucking legalize drugs already for crying out loud. This is ruining lives and enriching prison corporations who shouldn't even exist.
MapleHeartCheeseSoul
The US has the largest prison population in the world. Even my fairly conservative father is disgusted with this.
Paphlagon
Blame the three strikes bullshit
w3irdseed
for those that think these are about violence... no mostly drug charges.
NotTheHero
This is what happens when the system makes poverty a crime.
ChewableJim
If poverty is a crime, there are millions of poor people out there who haven't been arrested for it yet.
Imawarlock
Seriously?
kittenskittenskittens
Fix education, health care systems, and invest in youth. For a start.
CoyoteSabre
So do you have a plan for that? Has this plan ever been tested? What was the result of the testing?
whyteraven74
Has the plan been tested? Ever heard of Germany, France, Norway, Holland, Belgium?
CoyoteSabre
I've heard of those places, yes. "Germany" is not a plan.
HuMaNTrIpOd
Found the white guy.
nohasslecastle
Yeah you didn't really have to look to hard, there's plenty of them.
Engineer666
Moral of the story: Don't go to prison.
Janewaygottheminivanstarship
13th amendment slavery is legal for those incarcerated
57x28mm
I live in California. You wouldn't believe the shit I've seen JUST to get someone arrested. Sirens blaring all over the place at night too.
mtotwuoc
*Don't get caught
CaptainJackSbarro
You know what strikes me the most? How normal all these people look....
Nomanorus
We spend more money on prisons then we do education. Just let that sink in for a moment.
NatKingCobra
Correlation or causation?
batmanisntgay
To be fair, when we try funding education often times people don't read the entirety of a bill. This last bill relating to it said, (1/2)
batmanisntgay
"This funding may be used for other uses as needed" or something along those lines. I love it when people are stupid and don't read. (2/2)
TheMinstrelKnight
Because they're not educated.
sjjh
How much do you spend marketing junk food?
Ochocero
Oh, it sunk in the moment you used "then" instead of "than."
Nomanorus
Perhaps if we invested more in education, I wouldn't have made such an error.
KanKan669
Irony or typo? Imgur may never know.
DontBotherWithThisComment
Thank you for noticing.
thatsjustlikemyopinionman
Maybe neither? First fund prisons, then ,later, education...
fastdriver0
When will people realize just making them sit there and learn new crime skills is not working. Work them hard, make them afraid to come bak
ThatsMySecretCapImAlwaysHorny
Well either keep them inside, or let them out feet first. Problem solved.
gimmemoartearightnow
Harsh treatment in prison doesn't cut the rate of recidivism but rather increases it.
proxster
Or punish them for what they have done?
mamajunes3rdchin
holy over-simplification.
woozle
That doesn't work. Sorry to burst your vindictive bubble.
Polizei
This doesn't take into account the dead-end settings/situations most of them came from and will return to once released.
willow536
what ever happened to chain gangs?
SexOnFire
or isolate all of them, sit in a room with a bathroom and shower till you time is up, no tv if your good or going out on the yard.
SexOnFire
your*
flyingeddies
It's too expensive. We don't have enough rooms. We just need a few less laws. Damn, I bet we made 1000 new laws today.
MrsShogun111
the people realize this, it's just the govt wants to give the prisoners a hug and a gold star crimes done.
whyteraven74
the last thing these men need is to be treated more inhumanely than they're already being treated.
MrsShogun111
I never said they needed to be but a slap on the wrist for their crimes is baloney. But our justice system is broken in many ways.
NickHW
Have you learned nothing from history? Harsher conditions don't do anything to prevent crime. You prevent it by improving social standards.
fastdriver0
I worked in a Military prison for 4 yrs. Its very rough and regimented. We only had a 3% return rate because people feared returning
NickHW
I really don't have enough details about your example to make any specific counterpoint.
whyteraven74
Military prisons have low return rates because upon leaving prison most are out of the military.
UnlikelyMotivation
This is what happens when you privatize a prison system.
Elroydb
They aren't in California. Read some history of how the Cali prison system went from a model system to this all in the name of "safety"
EndiSky
Not sure if that says Read or Read... that sentence has different meanings depending on that one word!
Elroydb
You know what I mean :( Cali had a great system that worked and was very inexpensive then....things happened
MeanwhileBackOnEarth
No it it isn't. The what you get when you have an insanely influential prison guard union.
cinnamonbun
Holy shit, are you serious? Prisons in the US are in private sector?
whyteraven74
Many of them are, depends on the state.
AustralianHandstandChamp
prisons in the US are not privatized.
GKW212
What are you talking about? Prisons are not privatized in the US.
UnlikelyMotivation
Yes, they are.
GKW212
See my response to squip above. Thanks.
squip
LOL dude, yes many of them are, and to the total detriment of US society.
UnlikelyMotivation
Are these not supposed to be rehabilitation centers? Is that not the premise of a prison? Makes me wonder how many of these guys become 1
WillCorrectInaccuraciesForFood
In 'Murica, a lot of people don't see it that way. The thinking has to change before the system can change; what we have now is not working
AhoyThereCapitan
Nope. Prisons are for punishment. Always have been
CoyoteSabre
The rehabilitation rate is almost zero percent. Prison is a punishment and it keeps criminals from committing crimes while they are there.
Imawarlock
Prisons are NOT rehabilitation centers. They are where convicted criminals go to keep them from committing more crimes.
whyteraven74
Part of making sure they don't commit more crimes is making sure they have something else to do when they get out.
Imawarlock
Or, they could just stop committing crimes.
whyteraven74
When they can't get a job and can't get a place to live or food to eat, good luck with that.
UnlikelyMotivation
worse criminals after their stay. 2
HolliePocket
Mixing violent offenders with nonviolent offenders works great too! (lotsa sarcasm)
GeneCode
Prisons are not rehabilitation center. They are punishment center.
whyteraven74
I see you've missed out on a century plus of history.
ChewableJim
No, the point of a prison is to keep law-breakers away from the innocent. If they want to rehabilitate, that's on them.
StiabhnaD
Hey ChewableJim, Póg Mo Thóin, motherfucker. http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html
ChewableJim
So your response is to show me a picture of the swanky prison that that mass-murderer was sent to, and call me a motherfucker? Okay...
aguyuno
Uh, no.
UnlikelyMotivation
Not to create an argument, but what is the point of keeping them away from the 'innocent' if they've committed a victim-less crime?
whyteraven74
And another one who has no idea of history.
nomminnate
It depends on what your goals are. Lots of people (justifiably?) want vengeance for crime. Thing is, that's a bad way to stop future crime.
AnarchistAbe
I'd love to see the figures on what crimes they're in for, and how many of them REALLY need to be locked up.
HighFivesAlot
We need a pie chart.
AnarchistAbe
[2]minimum sentencing, and instituting fines (decriminalization) over jail time. Oh, the glory of the privately owned prison sector :\
blindralfie
California's three strike law has created this mess
Imjustsupposedtolook
drug dealer, drug dealer, tax evasion, drug user, drug user, unpaid parking fines, mentally ill, drug dealer, this is gonna take some time!
AnarchistAbe
I'm willing to wager a very large number is from minor drug-related charges...that could easily be dealt with by doing away with mandatory
sandibebop
My husband's in prison for 3 years as a level 1 sex offender for "soliciting a prostitute" online. He was just chatting up a girl.
sandibebop
Note: He did that online crap about a month before our wedding, he came home from Iraq with severe ptsd he self medicated with alcohol.
AnarchistAbe
Damn...that's really fucked up....Especially since I don't believe prostitution should be a crime. I'm sorry for your troubles :\
sandibebop
(just wanted people to be aware I didn't marry a guy in prison, together for 2 years and then married a year before prison)
HighFivesAlot
http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenus/sections/crim_justice/8_cj_whatcrimes.aspx?catid=3
HighFivesAlot
Yea, it seems that if drug crimes were handled differently (and possibly more effectively) outside of prisons, it would do well.
kmccre3
So what I am seeing is that MILLIONS could be saved by not having all of the drug offenders in there, and maybe we could open more schools
AnarchistAbe
AWESOME! Thanks for that!
trickshot41V
or how many of them are serving life sentences instead of the death penalty. two sides to everything.
nagini
My thoughts exactly. Every punishment must be severe so that there can be order. Little scared of myself for really believing that.
whyteraven74
No, there's no need for severe punishments for most. And punishments don't help with order.
myaccountnameisfourletterslong
Lifers are not in this kind of housing, they don't mix well with the short timers.
AnarchistAbe
As a strong advocate for the death penalty, those figures also intrigue me.
trickshot41V
to me life sentences don't make sense. yea its horrible to die but its justice.
AnarchistAbe
[2] However, if a confession is given, or you have been identified as guilt by 3 or more credible witnesses, I think it should be curtains.
AnarchistAbe
The problem is that some people have been found innocent after x number of years on death row. I don't want innocent people to die either.
AnarchistAbe
[3] DISCLAIMER: confession or credible witnesses for a crime deserving of death. Murder, Rape, Falsifying rape, pedophilia, or repeat
P4MBROS3
I agree with much of what you've said but you can't put too much stock into confessions or eyewitness testimony in regards to the death 1/?
AnarchistAbe
[4] violent offenses.
trickshot41V
yea thats true, and i don't mean that the death penalty should be taken lightly at all...
trickshot41V
also jail should be a place that people are more afraid of
B4Ctom1
(Releases all the drug related inmates) *crickets*
kyliemac
You're telling me prisoners get terrible accomodation? Ludicrous
CoyoteSabre
Prison is unpleasant? Astounding!
ToastyPotato
It should be ludicrous, since a huge chunk of those prisoners will come out WORSE than when they went in, and all at taxpayer expense.
SomeChickOnImgurWhoLovesBacon
It causes strain on both social and environmental resources. It causes extremely violent situations which leads to criminals never being 1/2
SomeChickOnImgurWhoLovesBacon
rehabilitated. Also spread of disease. So yeah, ludicrous.
Folamh3
Not in Norway.
Coolnerd89
To quote a wonderful actor, "QUIT BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE!"
Imawarlock
This ^
whyteraven74
Perhaps we should stop making more laws and making the punishments more severe just because we can.
miasanmia
REHABILITATE, DON'T INCARCERATE.
whoisyourdaddy
How?
miasanmia
What do you mean "how"? Look at the countries that prioritize rehabilitation over just punishment, follow their designs, get their results.
codyownz
Why not both? Prison is supposed to be a punishment more than anything.
aguyuno
Because we DON'T do both.
Imawarlock
You can take the man out of the ghetto, but he will just create a new ghetto where ever you put him.
wineandcats
while i agree with that most of the time, i think child molesters and rapists should be jailed for life.
thatonechickwiththethingthatonetimeatthatoneplacewiththestuff
This. There are people who are just broken and cannot be fixed.
NotACanadian
EXTERMINATE, DON'T REHABILITATE
wineandcats
make pot legal. how many will be set free?
ishouldvejoinedimgursooner
88% of most jails are there for marijuana or marijuana related crimes
wineandcats
i like your stats
HowardtheDuckthe1986filmnotthecomicbook
Well, as american prisons are run for profit and rich folks would lose money, pot will still be illegal.
AnarchistAbe
THANK GOD! Another person who gets it. Privatized prisons have way more impact than most people believe, and not always in a good way.
HowardtheDuckthe1986filmnotthecomicbook
I'm romanian. I know american system prisons from the news but more importantly documentaries. It is a disgrace for a country as the US
AnarchistAbe
I can't disagree. It's a broken system, perpetuated by the select few who benefit from it.
ameliasophia
and murder and rape too then how many will be set free? oh no wait that's not the point of a jail :/
Folamh3
Murder harms people. Smoking a joint harms no one except (in theory) the person who smokes it.
ameliasophia
or their child that they might be pregnant with
Folamh3
Yes, and that's awful. But we don't put people in prison for drinking alcohol while pregnant.
ameliasophia
so if people already are making mistakes with alcohol why should we legalise something else damaging they can make mistakes with?
youaregoingtohavesomenewclothes
yes those are the same. murder/rape... and pot. definitely the same.
ameliasophia
obviously not the same I was just making a point that we shouldn't legalise something just for the sake of lessening those arrested.
ChewableJim
The point is, we don't just legalize things so that we can make room in our prisons, that's absurd.
Coolnerd89
Trick question: None of them, they've already been convicted.
whyteraven74
You could always pardon those who were previously convicted if the legal status of pot was changed.
Coolnerd89
Yeah, you could. That involves a lot of work that the courthouse would not want to go through.
AnarchistAbe
I've seen figures as high as (nationwide) 80% of prisoners being locked up for small, drug-related charges.
wineandcats
i believe it. less work to prove their guilty.
AnarchistAbe
But, combine that with our mandatory minimums, and you've got this bullshit happening. Instead of jailing these individuals for minor
AnarchistAbe
[4] why are we clinging to Reagan's failed 'War on Drugs'? Public perception has flipped, and marijuana doesn't NEED to be criminal anymore
AnarchistAbe
[3] free. Think of it as a speeding ticket for possession, instead of jail time. It's obvious that people aren't going to stop smoking, so
AnarchistAbe
[2] marijuana related offenses; we should decriminalize it. It would still be illegal, but instead of jail time, you'd pay a fine and be set
DaShanghaiKid
Murica, 5% of the world's population, holds 25% of the world's prison population.
LocutusOfBored
"Land of the Free"
witchbaby
horrifying.
bookbinder
Better police?
Folamh3
Freedom!
esqyr
thats the price of total freedom
spin81
Apparently, fully one percent of Americans are either in prison or jail. That number just boggles my mind.
Acephalous
We're the best at something!
yazwho
More fun facts curtsey of QI! Worth a watch! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI
HouseBaratheon
$$$$
Ralchire
And 50% of the world's firearm population. Don't you just love the good ol' USA?
Elroydb
But somehow not 50% of the world's firearm homicides. 88 guns per 100 people and our gun murder rate is just a tick above europe's
Ralchire
What if, guys, and, well, this is just a guess but... WHAT IF FIREARM OWNERSHIP REDUCES CRIME RATE?
MrBananaBeak
Because the majority of those firearm owners commit 0 crimes with said firearms.
avberdy
That same statistic could be used to show how successful their policing system is...
NickHW
Or how much of a failure our social system is in preventing 'criminal' behavior. You wouldn't think they'd let violent offenders out
NickHW
like that? Those people there are probably in prison for victimless crimes.
EldieV
Actually it's more like 50%. More jailed people than Russia and China.
FuzzyX
The US War on Drugs is a total social failure boosting high prisoner rates and a vast social underclass.
whereswaldonow
as someone from the UK where its nigh on impossible to give someone a life sentence for even serious crimes... count your blessings
darkangle2000now
This is why they can't hear you over the sound of their freedom...
sadstory
solution: Be like china and just execute more people
Bouran
First murica comment i ever upvoted.
TheBurl
there's big money in locking people up
Donelto
Not since Rome have we seen such numbers.
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
You serious?
RadishIsAMeat
US prison labor allows the US to remain competitive in industry, it is a huge financial boost.
LearningOnImgur
Plus it would cost less to send them to college every year they're in than to keep them in prison. Go figure.
craz3d
word. we need to spend way less on these losers. give them two meals a day + some water and call it quits. no ac or heat.
wrincewind
or, perhaps, not have them in prison for as long? i'd bet a lot of these shmoes don't deserve to be banged up in the first place.
craz3d
some of them, yeah (eg pot users). violent criminals = WhoTF cares?
wrincewind
i'd rather have them not be banged up with a thousand other criminals, all of them sharing tips and tricks. :I
notasrelevant
Anyone who still realizes they are humans and could be rehabilitated and return to society as contributing members.
Glumerlink
False: this is likely a for-profit prison. So these inmates are probably earning the state money which is why there's overcrowding
Housemaster
Which in a sense is kind of worse... almost like a modern-day slave trade.
Glumerlink
Almost? It is exactly that. It's the reason why people go to prison so easily in this country, because the state makes money off of them.
shartsicle
A "for-profit prison" is one that is owned and operated by a private company. The state PAYS the private company for each prisoner it houses
shartsicle
I don't think "for-profit prison" means what you think it means
ImNewGoEasyOnMe
Thank you! I was like "wut?" to Housemaster's comment, and it has more points!
alexanderthegreater
that statistic is in no way indicative of whether the people in prison deserve imprisonment or not
Supuhfuzz
Thank you
Crowbahr
Nor does it reflect how often other nations just kill/mutilate their citizens instead.
darkangle2000now
It does however underline a fundamental problem. And nothing is being done to fix the issue, just to deal with the symptoms.
whyteraven74
A great many don't. And 30 years ago many of them wouldn't be imprisoned, just fined and sent on their way.
ChemJen
This country is broken. :( And it's getting worse.
MrBatman
WE LIVE IN A FIRST WORLD COUNTRY WHERE WE HAVE ALOT OF CRIME! I HOPE WE WERE SOMALIA SO WE CAN LIVE IT SHIT, BUT ATLEAST IT AINT BROKEN! WOO
brfatal
For 99% of those folks, it's the people that are broken, not the system. We have a society that glorified and promotes crime.
Crowbahr
I think it's worth noting that much of the world doesn't imprison people, it just kills or mutilates them instead...
SpeakingAsTheDevilsAdvocate
I take issue with the use of the word 'much'...
Crowbahr
Compared to the % that imprisons? Much.
DrGonzo87
So what? Nearly every western country does a better job in imprisoning people than the US.
jackbos
We actually enforce our laws. That means people go to prison a lot. What we need are fewer laws.
manicdevery
here here
v8xx
So why do so many people break your laws? You only fight symptoms, not what's causing it.
Imawarlock
I'm not in jail.. I have never been in jail. SO MANY LAWS!
gegh
Source?
batarnak
Those numbers are too nice and round.
Engineer666
http://www.aclu.org/safe-communities-fair-sentences/prison-crisis
gegh
Wow... And something tells me that the crime rates are not proportionally low, cause that would be the only logical reason.
Morebunnies
lol I think it's also a lyric in a System of a Down song
gegh
So that's what he's saying, haven't paid attention to the lyrics but I'm pretty sure I know which song you mean
marshallowfist
As a american, I don't doubt this. We put people in jail for everything.
masterscompanion
you beat me by 53 min I was about to say the same thing It's sad
RxPro
except using chloroform to murder your own child. that is allowed
mikecws91
It's more that we've got much, much longer sentences than other developed countries.
londog1
1) When I was 12 I was sued and brought to court for putting play-dough in locks so people would leave me alone and let me calm down.
londog1
I was sentenced to 30 hours of community service.
marshallowfist
sued? where were you exactly?
londog1
A day-treatment facility for those who are released from mental hospitals. Not the most stable childhood.
runbarirun
This is ridiculous. In my 20 years of life I have somehow managed to not be put in prison. It is not hard to follow the law.
whyteraven74
It's not about following the law, it's about how we keep making punishments more and more severe with no justification.
runbarirun
It is about the law. Making a punishment more severe has nothing to do with whether what you did was illegal or not.
marshallowfist
In my 20 years of life, I've never been to jail either. Doesn't mean that the court system is a tad bit ridiculous.
runbarirun
I assume you meant, "Doesn't mean that the court system ISN'T a tad bit ridiculous"? Just clarifying...
marshallowfist
Yes *isn't
ShamrockFury
Maybe people should stop committing crimes.
Janewaygottheminivanstarship
13th amendment slavery is legal for those incarcerated
MisterPants
Maybe they should stop locking people away for minor offences in the name of being 'tough on crime'. The three strikes laws are very wrong.
ShamrockFury
The 3 strikes for non violent crimes is bullshit, violent crimes though, it's a good thing. People know the risk of minor crimes though.
MisterPants
Violent crimes, yes. But going to prison for life for being caught with a joint is completely wrong, and should be declared unconstitutional
ShamrockFury
I completely agree. I'm not against pot use But if I got arrested for carrying it, I wouldn't act surprised.
MisterPants
True. Just saying the punishment in California far outweighs the crime, in general, and it's bankrupting the state, and ruining lives.
samsonsimson
Maybe legislators need to stop manufacturing crimes that doesn't harm anything but their delicate sensibilities.
creatingusernamesgivesmeanxiety
I said this and was instantly downvoted and harassed. When did people start liking you more than me?
ShamrockFury
I've been downvoted and upvoted at least 50 times. I even had a crack addict downvote all my comments.
creatingusernamesgivesmeanxiety
Them damn crack addicts. I can't really talk, though. I'm just lucky imgur isn't illegal.
ShamrockFury
Workin the corners to get your Imgur fix
creatingusernamesgivesmeanxiety
Please, I'm way too classy for that. I'm an escort.
shartfearer
Maybe prisons shouldn't be privatized so they hope to fill them up for money.
ShamrockFury
Folsum Prison, brought to you by Maxi Pads
NotAPervert
maybe there shouldn't be be a ridiculous amount of arbitrary crimes that ruin peoples lives on a jury decided basis.
ShamrockFury
Not arguing what should be a crime and what shouldn't. Even if its a stupid law, it's still illegal to commit a crime.
rascalqueen
I don't know how people don't understand this. "Waaahhhh but it's just poooottt!" As ridiculous as the law is, it's STILL THE LAW.
NotTheHero
Who decided to make what against the law though?
whyteraven74
Unjust law are unjust, saying "Tough shit it's the law" helps no one.
ChewableJim
Arguing for personal responsibility? Pfft, that's just crazy talk. It's the system, man!
whyteraven74
how about personal responsibility for those that make the laws and run the prisons? They cause these situations.
mouschi
So tired of that mentality in this country.
sevenofninetertiaryadjunctofunimatrixzeroone
As a crack addict, let me just go grab some quick rehab that I can afford and make it through it with my not imaginary support system.
sevenofninetertiaryadjunctofunimatrixzeroone
You guys do realize I'm not actually addicted to crack right?
ShamrockFury
Impossible to know for sure, addicts are excellent liars.
ChewableJim
And yet millions of addicts before you have managed to get clean, often under worse circumstances. But please, continue to pass the buck.
whyteraven74
And millions haven't. Perhaps we should just make rehab available to all and stop arresting addicts.
ShamrockFury
Stop smoking crack.
sevenofninetertiaryadjunctofunimatrixzeroone
Ohhhhh is that how you stop smoking crack? I've been doing it wrong this whole time.
sevenofninetertiaryadjunctofunimatrixzeroone
I... am pretty shocked that people think it's that easy to just stop doing a highly physically addictive drug. Way to compassion, guys.
veryimgurwow
lol right?
OzaiR2k
Smoking crack is illegal in the first place. You don't get a free 30 day trial.
NotTheHero
Why is it illegal though? Really? It only harms the person using it unless it us criminalised.
Kraix
Yes.
ShamrockFury
Yes. Stop it.
ReductiMat
Privatized prisons are making a few people a lot of money.
killerkadoogan
this shit is ridiculous.. I like how some politicians say they are the best thing for the state, then the state pays them to house criminals
NickHW
When you think about it, working in a 9-5 office corporate job is a lot like a privatized prison of the mind and 'soul'.
girthyafterbirth
the root of that conspiracy about violent rap music from the 80's and 90's, encouraging violence and more people sent to those prisons $$
sexaroni
Seen that theory, but I'm skeptical.
Crowbahr
Yeah, but this is one wrong look away from a massive, devastating prison riot.
NickHW
They're probably non-violent drug offenders. Or victimless crimes.
Crowbahr
Doesn't actually matter much. They're in prison, and according to that Stanford experiment they'll be conforming to the archetype expected.
marylanddd
they also create weird incentives for the owners to make everything ilegal
Elroydb
which a government seeking to expand its power is more than happy to oblige
ishouldvejoinedimgursooner
In America right now it is considered more profitable for you to pen a prison than to strike oil
mrcalifornian
yep, and with that money they lobby the fuck out of congress to pass stricter laws, especially for drugs. drug laws are silly and outdated
sexaroni
They aren't technically "private", since the government gets lots of benefits from it. Strictly private prisons would yield better results.
fencerman
I'm actually kind of curious... what do you even mean by "strictly private"? As in, enforcing privately-owned legal systems by private cops?
sexaroni
basic accountability would be enough to solve many issues and sustain itself ethically.
sexaroni
Basically. Government regulation always resorts in coercion and monopolies. A purely private system, regulated by consumers, insurance and 1
fencerman
That doesn't answer my question at all. I asked what a "strictly private" PRISON system would look like. How does that even work? Show me.
sexaroni
It would look like any other system: owners that operate it with the regulation of insurance companies that may insure it and/or investors 1
sexaroni
that have their own money at stake with the prison. Regulation isn't difficult, it doesn't need government to happen, you know that, right?
sexaroni
Go ahead downvote me. You all obviously don't understand the restrictions of a free-market.
Elroydb
Don't try to explain free market capitalism to the people here. Most people aren't awake
sexaroni
Here, here. +1 for you, sir.
AnarchistAbe
There was a scandal a few weeks back about a judge SELLING kids to prisons, but sure, I'm downvoting because private prisons work SO WELL.
AnarchistAbe
[2] Obviously I just don't understand how business works. Poor me and my feeble brain, not able to grasp the concept of private prisons.
sexaroni
You really don't, because you're blaming crime on a market system, and not corrupt people. Bad things won't stop happening with regulation.
Elroydb
You should know better than to make a straw man argument rather than answer his
squip
No they wouldn't. The motive of profit mandates said corporation maximizes profits. To do so, you need more inmates. QED.
TiedToTheTestingofWills
Businesses don't write laws. Governments do. Governments are controllable by businesses, but that's the nature of government, not business.
squip
Not really. Lobbyists write almost all the laws, and they are very much in line with what those with the most money want.
TiedToTheTestingofWills
Either way, that's the realm of governance. If government exists and the rules are in place, and you lose if you don't play by them...
TiedToTheTestingofWills
Profit just means efficiency. If you can use the government to create more profit for you, then you've created something worth destroying.
squip
well beyond that which is needed. Oversight on expenditures can only go so far in business, just like government. People waste. Period.
squip
That's a myth. Profit just means that. Making money. It doesn't necessarily mean efficiency. Business people are constantly spending (1)
TiedToTheTestingofWills
Look at it from the other side. If you get the job done with nothing left over for yourself, you weren't very efficient.
TiedToTheTestingofWills
The idea is to get more out than what you put in. When you have the government do that for you, you aren't working. You're taxing.
Elroydb
The prison system is to have people serve their debt to society then be able to re-join it after that debt is paid. Tie the profit motive 1
Elroydb
with reducing repeat offenders and see what happens
sexaroni
The liability of a free-market private prison would be excruciatingly strict. The accountability is solely on the people running the prison.
squip
rehabilitation and reintegration. The profit motive, just like in healthcare, is self-destructive to the common good.
squip
motivator, and their actions bear this out. Prisons should be trying to be as empty as possible, focusing on lower recidivism and better (2)
squip
In practice, private prisons lobby for more crimes and stiffer penalties, so they have more captive customers. That is their prime (1)
sexaroni
I don't think you're seeing the point. The only way that a private prison can profit from more criminals is if they manipulate laws, with 1
Elroydb
They find allies in public prison workers unions. Where do you think the "3 strikes and you're out" came from?
sexaroni
the help of politicians making more laws. That is fundamentally impossible in a strict free market, which has no dealings with government.
EulerIsCrazy
Those long sentences for carrying marijuana are doing a lot of good, I see.
scuba7jb
Here is the solution: 1 week prison sentence, finished off with this: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ab_1172940415
booke
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons // You dont even flinch // All our taxes paying for your wars // Against the new non-rich
missflipwheezy
WOO! It's legal in Seattle!!
necron99
Washington
moshroom
CoyoteSabre
There are VERY few people in prison for "carrying marijuana" unless they were carrying a truckload of it to sell. Urban myth.
croy89
Not prison, but look at the county jails and it's through the roof here!
CoyoteSabre
Where is "here?" What percentage are in jail for nothing more than possession of personal amounts of marijuana?
zakmckracken
http://imgur.com/zAMkNCV
AngelRick
Prisons are privately owned, they get more money for more inmates usually. Such beautiful capitalism.
HeyFolks
That's something I never quite understood. They'll obviously never try to rehabilitate an inmate then ?
YouAreNotMySupervisor
I'm actually pretty sure that's not the way it works...
ECwithTwoUnderlines
It does, 'cause 'MURICA!
YouAreNotMySupervisor
Only some prisons are private. Even so, they are federally or state regulated.
ECwithTwoUnderlines
Which doesn't make this whole private prison thing any better....
MySecondAccount
Some prisons are for-profit, and they're growing fast
youtah
Very few are
YouAreNotMySupervisor
It's my understanding that state/federal still outnumber private prisons. Even so, it's not the prisons that decide the sentence.
ProfessorStephenHawking
50k per year per inmate. And they're allowed to use them for any labour with out pay.
Foaly42
they actually agreed to keep a minimum of inmates there when privatising them
TheChinamanIsNotTheIssue
Yea, those damn private prisons keep arresting and sentencing people.
ShamrockFury
Even though the punishment hardly matches the crime, they still know that it's illegal to carry it.
moshroom
I think laws should always be questioned, especially when they don't make sense anymore. I mean, is that really worth it?
wineandcats
but people shouldnt be in prison for years at a time for that, when they could have room to keep child molesters in jail their entire life.
ShamrockFury
Can't argue with that, I'm just saying they know the risk of carrying marijuana.
ToastyPotato
Actually, the risks aren't the same for everyone. Nonwhites are a few times more likely to be arrested for Weed possession than whites.
ShamrockFury
Thank. God. No, haha i'm just kidding. Yeah, racial profiling is and always has been a problem.
HolliePocket
When it gets too full they just let non-rehabilitated crackheads and pedophiles out in Wondervalley.
PurpleThomas
Around half of the US prison population is there for often minor drug infractions, such as possession of small quantities of marijuana.
ShamrockFury
I like pot, can't smoke anymore cause of work, so I think it's bullshit too. The fact is, it's still illegal. Carrying it is a risk. 1/2
ShamrockFury
If someone has 2 strikes, then they're dumb for carrying pot. 2/2
PurpleThomas
Civil rights trump unjust laws. You are not dumb for exercising those rights in violation of such laws.
Qtoy
Just so I'm understanding you correctly, and I know I'm likely wrong, but did you just imply that pot is a right?
Qtoy
I'm inclined to agree. I'd like to voice my personal support for you despite mounting pressure from the opposing side.
ShamrockFury
Thanks. I'm pro legalization, btw. I think all the other people are missing the point of my original comment.
Qtoy
Personally, I don't care if marijuana is legal or not, but if it is illegal, why bother messing with it if you know there's consequences.
ShamrockFury
I'd rather it legalized to reduce crime, but yeah, it's illegal, why are people shocked they get arrested for it.
5tev
the morons in charge today would have locked up Thomas Jefferson
jsktrogdor
1/2 Just to make things clear, hemp ≠ marijuana. I'm all for legalization, and I realize hemp is illegal. But it annoys me when people
jsktrogdor
2/2 try to claim that Jefferson & Washington were potheads because they grew industrial hemp.
baskytkase
i mean, he'd still be locked up for growing hemp. might as well smoke the good stuff if you're already taking the risk, don't ya think?
5tev
okay... I didn't claim they were pot heads
jsktrogdor
I know, I'm just saying that preemptively for the idiots who will.
5tev
grow industrial hemp today and see what happens
PurpleThomas
Industrial hemp also has such low levels of THC that you would not become intoxicated from smoking it.
jsktrogdor
It'd give you a headache.
AnarchistAbe
Mandatory minimum sentencing is a sham. Reagan's war on drugs is a joke. Combine them, and this is what you get.
AnarchistAbe
[2] Welcome to the United States, and our private prison sector; where it's more profitable [for a select few] to keep people imprisoned.
Quessan
In my state we have "First offenders status", generally ends up getting your first charge of possession simply probation and fine and (1)
AnarchistAbe
They could just as easily decriminalize it, so it would be the same as a speeding ticket (pay a fine, and go free); but they won't.
Scourge248
They've already made it legal in Colorado and Washington, it'll slowly spread across all the states eventually.
AnarchistAbe
[3] The constitution says that states have authority over laws not governed in the constitution as "federal" issues. However, our
PurpleThomas
It should be pointed out that in the United States, marijuana is still prohibited federally so while you may not be charged under (1)
AnarchistAbe
[4] authoritarian government refuses the states' rights on this issue. They still claim that THEY supercede the states. We as a people need
AnarchistAbe
[6] they WILL back down.
vtburn
If it affects commerce then it is under federal jurisdiction. Since pot is sold it falls under commerce.
AnarchistAbe
[4] to let them know that this is NOT OK, and that we demand an end to the federal prohibition of marijuana. With enough public pressure,
PurpleThomas
state laws, you would still be charged under federal law. Obama has made it clear that pot smokers will still be prosecuted this way. (2)
AnarchistAbe
[2] people still get arrested in Colorado and Washington for distribution. The feds overstep their authority and arrest the big distributors
AnarchistAbe
Probably. At the same time, the federal government still prohibits it, which means it's still illegal.
Quessan
expunged once your probation is over. (2)
AnarchistAbe
That's good. It still doesn't fix the underlying issues, IMO, but it does slim the chances of one's life being ruined over minor pot charges
Quessan
I agree, full legalization and taxation. I'd even argue for allowance of simple possession charges to be re-tried for a chance at dismissal.
AnarchistAbe
I like to push for 'decriminalization'. It's a good middle ground. Once decriminalized, it's still technically illegal, but the charges are
AnarchistAbe
[3] It also lets people get acclimated/used to the new laws, so they can put their fears to rest. Then can come full legalization.
AnarchistAbe
[2] settled with a simple fine, rather than jail time. Essentially, it would just be a "speeding ticket" for possession charges.