ADegenFromUpcountry
128096
3037
63
Apr 28, 2023 5:54 PM
ADegenFromUpcountry
128096
3037
63
HUGHgReaction
They also have a fully funded retirement plan. Not like the under funded plans of the US or Canada. Their retirement is secure where ours, which we have paid into, is not
ThioSuxTube
* high taxes and people willing to pay them because it means a better educated, happier & supported populace.
ctriis87
People who live in countries with strong social and economical safety nets (e.g. Norway++) have on average much more freedom than people who live in countries with weak social and economical safety nets (e.g. USA++).
novilicious
They also have the most suicides by proportion. The more ya know!
BigStacksThrowItOnThemBigFatTatties
Please keep in mind the oil export money and the lack of a trillion dollar a year military empire that plays world police.
Magnetar66
Norway isn't happy because it has oil wealth. It's happy because it was a strong democracy before it found oil. https://youtu.be/9Wq2S1b-HCs
CobainsSarcoma
but I've been repeatedly assured that the only way a society can be truly happy is by having zero accountability for the ridiculously wealthy and unrestricted access to military grade firearms
darthstormer
PulpyOJ
Who would’ve thought that not having to worry about basic needs like healthcare and education, among other things, makes you happier?
ADegenFromUpcountry
I’m pretty sure some guy called Maslow studied this a while back
kmon2346
Butt stuff.
GutstobeGnK
It's all the metal music.
Snaltras
Mountains, fish and lusekoftor.
Northover1
I wouldn't mind living there😍
BitYerBumHard
Not to mention a secular world view.
alwaysupvotecats
Oil. The secret is having billions of dollars worth of oill
Toetpep
It isn't about oil. Norway and most countries in the top 10, use any form of profitable economy and invest a large portion of that back into society, instead of giving it all to a select small group of people. Due to history and learning from it, a society prospers when everyone gets a share.
tarvuz
Unless you're a traumatized refugee child from Mariupol who gets sent to a remote village without a therapist.
bonnieyes1000cats
But that WEATHER. :-(
FancyPayne
It's funny my family emigrated to US from Norway generations ago. I wish my daughter and I could go back
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
What's the ratio of wages to pizza parties in the workplace?
sherlockhooves
Funny how that works, right.
MrKomisiripala
America is not in the business of making it’s citizens “happy”. It’s a corporation pretending to be a country doing the barest minimum for its citizens while making them feel good about a having gigantic military. A fact which gets waved around like the only functioning dick at a eunuch convention any time any shortcomings of the country relative to other nations is pointed out.
soyunfrikinburrito
😂🤣 “ Eunuch’s Convention “ Good one 👍
GuitaristDom
The US has a lot of people with Stockholm Syndrome too. They have a psychological bond with the country that has caused them harm, and they'll defend it to their dying breath (although I imagine a dying breath is probably an itemised charge with a deductable that will bankrupt your relatives?).
TripleDane
"waved around like the only functioning dick at a eunuch convention any time any shortcomings of the country relative to other nations is pointed out." AMEN
Lampmonster
And the right voting base gobble that shit up. "Well we can't have healthcare because we have to protect the world! Ingrates!"
xCommonCentz
This is one of the best worded analogies I've seen. Funny too, but more frustrating and sad.
yoshtan4
Honestly, the happiest country in the world seems like a pretty low bar reading about how unhappy much of the world is. Glad to hear they raise the bar though.
andreyhimself
We're 7th actually.
VodkaReindeer
Yeah, as a Finn I take umbrage.
lleuth63
Also it turns out high taxes lead to a happy population provided 1: they're spent well and 2: the people can still live afterwards. Because, ya know, it's a government's job to fix shit and that's what the taxes are for
GuggelPlayer
Norway is fucking expensive place. Sure you make 5000 a month but living will cost you 4500
McAwesomeguy
Not really,most middle class jobs pays around 18 to 23 ish dollas an hour, we pay high taxes but we also get free school kindergardens healthcare and 3 to 6 weeks payed vacation. Norway isnt perfect, we got issues same as everyone else but its not too bad i think :)
GuggelPlayer
Norway is amazing, worked there when I was younger, and we have same here in finland 😄 but it is hella expensive
thatguyfromny
I think they're just high AF on rakfisk but it could be the smalahove.
geonerd
You only get high if you eat the eye.
GuestChrist
Y'all better stop being gross! I gagged reading that lol
ADegenFromUpcountry
Does rakfisk smell anything like surstromming
ADegenFromUpcountry
?
geonerd
Yes, but not *quite* as bad.
beoluves
My dad read that report and all he could say is "propaganda, there's different ways to measure happiness". He's a die hard capitalist and truly believes that "bigger number equals better person".
Kingdomonsterdeath
Good news for him! The USA is launching itself towards the triple digits faster and faster! #100 has a 1 in it right? Can't go wrong with that.
Frenchgeek
Which is why the US is moving away from being #1? Too small a number?
LitchLitch
Unless ol dad is completely supported by his passive investments he aint a capitalist, he's just a pathetic capitalist simp.
Rookie8286
That’s an odd economic theory.
LitchLitch
no, its simple grammar, applying the actual definition of words
Rookie8286
Trading labor for wages is one of the foundations of Capitalism, along with competitive markets, capital accumulation, etc. etc. Suggesting you can’t be a “capitalist”without being independently wealthy is ridiculous.
LitchLitch
if you are trading labor for wage then you are by definition do not have enough capital to be a capitalist, you may be trying to make yourself one, you may abjectly simp to them, but you are not a capitalist, pro-capitalism sure, but no more a capitalist that you could be a worker if you dont work
Rookie8286
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
kiwiflavored
There is currently no way to measure happiness at all that would hold up to scientific scrutiny, but we do have a ton of other metrics such as life expectancy, average wealth and standard of living, education quality etc. to show that the US has fallen behind Norway and many other countries.
nw2656hbsg24
HDI is generally considered the best related metric. US is 21st globally & continues to fall in rankings😕 https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/human-development-index#/indicies/HDI
RalphH
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-happiness-doctor/201705/measuring-happiness-how-can-we-measure-it
kiwiflavored
I know psychologists claim we can measure happiness, but we really can't. We can ask people, but people lie. Housewives lied in the bad old days because they had been raised to be all smiles and pretense, and now it looks like women used to be happier in the 1950s which is of course total BS.
kiwiflavored
We don't even have a unit in which to measure happiness. "How happy are you on a scale of 1 to 10" is a completely meaningless question. 1 to 10 what? Gallons? Is 10 a heroin trip or a quiet evening with a good book? Real science measures phenomena under controlled conditions and creates reproducible, falsifiable results expressed in internationally comparable units. Very little in the field of psychology meets this standard. Most of its research is simply bad science.
LitchLitch
Asking them if theyre happy seems to be a relevant metric.
kiwiflavored
People lie. Housewives in the past lied in happiness surveys because they had been indoctrinated to not be a nag or a negative Nancy. Smile, keep your chin up, always pretend to be happy to keep your man happy. If it gets too much, have some tonic wine or cooking sherry and start day drinking. That's why we have studies claiming women used to be happier in the past, which is of course nonsense.
LitchLitch
People lie at a predictable rate. Self-report is much more reliable than people who are not familiar with the science think. Even in the worst days of the 1940s and 50s women still reported being unhappy, just at a lower rate than they actually were. Well phrased question can eliminate a great deal of that.
kiwiflavored
I'm reluctant to call it a science. There's a reason for the qualifier "soft". Look at the failure of polls to accurately predict election outcomes. A proper scientific approach would at the very least involve an EEG. Ideally neurotransmitter imaging, but most people would likely lose their happy thoughts during multiple PET scans after being pumped full of radiotracers. Until we can take quick and stress-free comprehensive brain snapshots, we can't measure emotional states in a meaningful way.
Zixtank
Norwegian here. We lost that throne to Finland a while ago.
Toetpep
If I do a quick search, wtf happened? Norway used to be way above NL, now we're ahead and it hasn't gotten any better here in the past 10 years or so at least.
TheAccursedHamster
Both seem absolutely lovely
PodolKev
It's because of the great butter crisis isn't it ?
jaakkopaakkonen
Finnish guy here. I think it's because finnish people always aim for fairness, try to seek the best in people and try to treat everyone with respect no matter their history. Also Norway is LOOSER! How does the second place feel like LOOSEEEERRRR!
jaakkopaakkonen
I did lie about the first part also. We are actually not that good a people.
CgnCalling
He Loo He Serrrr
MrsPunkTum
Kind of annoying that this isn't top comment
ADegenFromUpcountry
Why does that annoy you?
omniblastomni
Probably American.
MrsPunkTum
No, I'm Norwegian.
MrsPunkTum
Because saying Norway is the happiest country now simply isn't true. There are a lot of suicides in Norway too, especially men. Not that I've compared it to Finland.
ElusiveThing
Yes. Finland's been on the throne for six years now.
Lexgeddon
They should stop bringing their phone in there.
CgnCalling
Constipated?
DeanSledgehammer
Don't worry, Finland just elected a capitalist right wing government. We won't be #1 in few years.
9zf2v2cvws3
Lmao, Finland ”capitalist right wing government” = left of US Democrats.
Comet260
For fuck's sake.....
MrsPunkTum
That's sad.
KapteeniHai
A lot of misguided anger and ignorance made it possible.
Comet260
Let me guess, demonizing brown people?
KapteeniHai
That and anti green sentiment growing
KyleButNotThatKyle
You guys must just be miserable as second happiest country now.
BurningVeryImportantThings
like why even try anymore
dohcohv
Being one of the wealthiest oil-rich countries probably helps. It also helps that their government doesn't horde it like the Saudis do. Saudi Arabia produces 265,000 barrels per day per million people while Norway produces 324,000 barrels per day per million people. Even Texas or Alaska isn't as oil-rich as Norway where 1/5th of the GDP comes from Oil.
IrishWhisky24
Weird that a single state isn't as "oil rich" as an entire nation. Truly impressive
LitchLitch
The saudi "hording" really is a lot more about keeping petroleum prices high than anything. In a warped sort of way they are being generous to the other opec countries by taking the hit from not producing as much oil as they could.
Praethius
Wealth helps but oil has little to do with it. Other oil wealthy countries cant guarantee citizen happiness and other scandanavian, non-oil countries have similar models. The key is the socialised private services, strong safety nets, key protections against money in govt etc
pandemicmodedad
Saudi hordes it to keep the price high. Norway doesn't let the rich control their country. That's their secret.
mzamurman
America is oil rich so...
Mansooratyale
Iraq has oil too...oh, never mind
Strategicgnomer
Don't think where the money comes from matters. Americans make more per Capita, they don't seem very happy. Pretty sure wealth isn't the solution.
purrzipurz
It also helps that there arent so many annoying people.
laserfork
Being oil-rich helps but isn't a guarantee. Here in Canada our oil-rich province of Alberta was in a similar situation to Norway after their oil discovery, and also created a sovereign wealth fund like Norway. But Alberta's politics are very conservative by Canadian standards, and years of right-wing rule squandered the vast majority of their oil wealth. Norway's heritage fund has ~$1.3 trillion in it, for example. Alberta's has $18 billion and is shrinking.
CitizenPrime
Norwegians don't get shit
SarcasticComment
having a culture that isn't a glorification of pure greed does wonders. USA is an oligarchy with window dressing. Congressmen are rapidly multimillionaires despite an under 200k annual salary.
Gatorjon
They also have a large portion of their national defense subsidized.
Madmooch
Was just watching a video about UAE and all their abandoned mega projects. Wasted oil money
Praethius
Theres a whole industry around fleecing crown princes for their absurd wealth via unachievable architecure and city planning projects. Im all for the redistribution of wealth from an idiot to many others - it would just be nice if it then helped people, which it really doesnt
dohcohv
Norway didn't start pulling ahead until the OPEC oil embargo when prices jumped and countries were desperate
backrideup9
Thousands of what?
autodidacticcortex
Yes.
trippingthelightfantastic
The U.S. is the largest oil producer on the planet. The difference is Norway uses the revenue for their people.
[deleted]
[deleted]
trippingthelightfantastic
A nice change from lining oil execs pockets.
dohcohv
Total goss barrels per year, yes. Per person it's not. The US would have to produce ten times as much oil as it currently does.
Eyeetsass
That's all well, and fine. Let's discuss how they make use of their oil profits? I'd bet dollars to donuts they research renewable energy, and invest in their children. Oil isn't inherently evil. If you use the profit to stifle renewable sources, and maintain your course, you're evil. Not the oil.
Tankmoose
Yeah, as of this moment oil is critically important to our infrastructure. The more I learn about it the more disheartened I get that any meaningful change will happen when it needs to.
Tankmoose
Our=USA. I'm high and also American so I can't see through a global lens
Carl99
It's pretty important globally, but i wouldn't worry, the US will change too, Europe is pushing on banning new ICE private vehicles in the next 10 years or so. Once that happens you'll see a big shift as ICE's stop being produced. keeping production going with Europe out of the picture just won;t be economically feasible. Same applies to a lot of other areas. Even if the US tries to lag economics will push them along anyway,
Eyeetsass
This is very optimistic, and I love it.
Tankmoose
I like this as well. I don't understand about 50% of it but you seem to know what you're talking about xD
Varenvel
your saying like america is poor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita america is in same wealth as norway , go preach fake news somewhere else , you can start from "stop spreading misinformation" , id speak less harsh but so many americans here are far with that thumb up their ass with that"agenda "america is poor or cant afford X" your 8th richest country GDP (PPP) per capita , like jezus. if norway can and could afford it , so can you
Upinthecold
Try removing top 5 wealthiest, and check again
Varenvel
if this comment angers you good , use that anger , let it feel you , then make goverment work for you and kick rich people/corporation in nuts , they are stealing that wealth from you , all benefits , free healthcare , not me.
idrinkcheapbeer
Lol. I will save a spot in Valhalla for you, you legendary internet warrior!!
GroteB
Ok. Now try typing it in a correct way, if you can.
Varenvel
im dyslectic , im aware most of my writing is off , and not native english speaker so doing my best i can , most of time , its worse when i tired(its 23:22 here so)
FillGoodguy
GDP is A. not really precise at all. 2. A shit measurement of wealth.
riplikash
That's an argument without a point. The US is incredibly wealthy by pretty much ANY meaningful economic metric you choose to measure by.
madelinewuntch
You have one that is better?
Varenvel
how about icome per household? america is first , GDP globally? also first , my country is 40-60 on most lists , ex 3rd world country , and we got free/affordable healthcare , unions , free materinial leave , sick days , vacations , etc etc
Varenvel
*paid maternal leave , i tried to rewrite it but igur ate 2 comments by giving error
Azkle
The problem with that is average anything in America is a bad indicator of how things actually are. Like some households have enough income to be at least a small country and that really throws off the average. I know people who make in a month what I make a week and I'm still poor enough to qualify for food stamps.
Varenvel
do they make minimal wage? or its one of these another "live of tips so we can hire you without minimal wage" who is illegal in rest of the world , my original post still stands becouse i know , and it wont be better if Americans wont finaly do something about it. voting is what "got you here where you are now" , time to protest and grind nation to a halt.
riplikash
They're talking about the countries ability to provide services like healthcare, education, and public transportation. They're not saying individual Americans are wealthy.
ADegenFromUpcountry
Anybody who’s interested in learning more about the Norwegian oil fund should visit https://www.nbim.no/
ricpaul
Glad the Dutch have also invested the 500 billion $ from our natural gas supply in such a fund. Oh wait... we didn't... we spend it all...
EasyPeezy2019
Nothing stopping us from starting such a thing today. Sure it will take a while to get up to speed but we can still follow their example. Is this in scope of any of the political parties that you know of? Almost time to vote again.
Eyeetsass
This is even better than what I imagined they were doing with it. It's so difficult to sit here, and watch America sink in spite of shining examples of responsible fiscal action benefitting the whole population. Makes the flag I have lived under for 41 years seem like a symbol of systemic oppression. Not the glory that was explained to me in school.
jskskj8888
Yeah I learned young it was all shit. And when I would talk about the TRUE Chistopher Columbus people thought I was weird. Live in rural America so....
fowly
Sleepingpanda1260
unamailer
What happens when the oil runs out?
andreyhimself
We go back to lax and potatoes.
giordanom
They lose some small percentage of their revenue. Unlike many countries, they are actively working to ensure that the oil running out is not a massive blow. It used to be more than 60% of their GDP. Now it's 20%. The goal is that by the time the oil runs out, it won't be missed.
[deleted]
[deleted]
jeeps005
Wrong country
Hemelsblauw
They also have dams and most of their power comes from that. 70% of their energy is already renewable. Sauce: https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/norway You have to scroll down a bit.
swedeonamoose
Apperently Sweden and Norway even co run some dams in the far north
LitchLitch
They the same thing other scandanavian countries without massive oil reserves do, only with the cash from the oil sales invested in the countries infrastructure and economy.
jeeps005
Listen to the podcast economics explained about norway's economy
TacoPoweredHelicopter
They have been extremely active in taking that money and investing in projects for the future.
evildadunit
The world already ran out of oil once. adventurous men mearly hunted the source to extinction - they'll figger sumpin' out
EricPisch
They will still have 1.3 trill $ in investments
sverebom
Then they become like every other first-world country except the US: All of above with renewables instead of fossile fuel.
Thesaya
They are investing the money carefully, making their best to have it last forever.
unamailer
Excellent. All the best.
Thesaya
Fucking bastards. Easy to stay all high standards when you find oil. Sweden used to be better than them, you know, before we ran out of money to keep it at the same level and the blue's got the power...
Thesaya
(this is sibling rivalry, btw, nothing serious. We're just a tiny bit bitter over here. XD)
Override9636
Also, instead of letting oil companies run the government, they invest in public transit, and are probably one of the most bikeable countries in the world. It's less expensive than 100% automotive infrastructure and creates a far better quality of life.
Sydonis12
Maybe big cities, but Norway as a whole is actually a bit subpar for European standards, they have a very low density of population, so cars make sense there, though 80% of new car purchases are electric so they have that going for them
SpikesGuns
Haven't been to Norway specifically, but Europe really has their mass transit game together
Soufange
I specifically like the towns where they're nothing but waterways. Boats and hoes!!
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
The alt-rights take on this immediately goes into how white they are and their lack of diversity are the sources of all good in Scandinavia. I know this because I've seen my dad's corner of YouTube in my efforts to gently guide him away from it.
SaintSleepyWeasel
To be fair, not having systematic racism would be a huge step forward in dealing with a country's problems. Or you know, not having a history of fucking over minorities and forcing them into areas that are not supposed to have that any people.
ThisIsYourLifeNow
piperdude
I just got back from a working trip to Norway, and most of the people I interacted with weren’t born in Norway.
oifaen
Why work when we can pay foreigners to do it ;)
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Clearly none of them are aware of the Pakistani-language television networks in Norway...
JacaByte
Can't expect the alt-right to share the truth ever amiright?
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Yes, I am aware that Urdu is the main language of Pakistan. Don't know why I brain farted on that. :P
elcee50
I've seen that several times, shit about "those countries are homogeneous" and that somehow makes it easier to get done? Like what?
Thornaxe
Sadly, it seems to be easier for people to empathize with the less fortunate when the less fortunate look like they do. Apparently its easier to say “that could have been me”
elcee50
No, I understand the argument, I was asking incredulously because it only works if you ignore all the places that are less" "homogeneous" than the USA and get shit like universal healthcare done anyway.
Thornaxe
the other guy did a much better job of explaining it than I did. As for other multicultural democracies, as I understand it Britain is the only other big one with USA levels of multiculturalism. And they’re having a lot of alt-right issues right now too. Lot of racist horseshit going on there.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
Why has anyone ever advocated for an ethnostate? Put yourself in a bigots shoes thinking this one through: "I'm more comfortable around white people, so everyone will get along better if they're all white! Everyone will work together better if there's no lazy minorities around! No welfare queens stealing my tax dollars! No BLM making a fuss about rights, even though they have more rights than me!" ...and so on.
ADegenFromUpcountry
Worked out so well in the Balkans /s
ZeroLogain
It's a lot harder to drive social wedges when everyone looks the same, talks the same language and mostly believes the same. It's also a lot easier to create empathy between people when all the above is true. This makes it drastically more difficult to divide and exploit the population and create false social divides. Can't blame immigrants when there aren't any, and when the criminals are all relatable.
mechanicalchaos
The US version of capitalism functions on social wedges. They need a culprit for the miserableness caused by an endless growth model that requires exploitation to function. It'd be HARDER but given time the only way to not be ostracized would be to be a silent worker who gives their entire life over for nothing. We know this because it's already the direction the US has repeatedly tried to go, same race/religion/language or not.
elcee50
It was a rhetorical "what?" because it's a bullshit excuse against universal healthcare: plenty of countries that are less homogeneous than the USA have implemented it (universal healthcare is not just a western European thing).
ZeroLogain
I thought it was sincere on why a homogeneous population could have less roadblocks towards social progress, my bad.
Bonemamma
16.8% of Norways population are Immigrants, for the usa its 13.7%. Norway has 2 official languages
ZeroLogain
Visible minorities of Norway - less than 8%. US approx 36%. That's the gap I'm referencing.
CAAFlo
Mate, you ever look into Irish history? They killed each other for decades over praying a tiny bit differently. Hate will always find a way if you give it space to breed.
ZeroLogain
Ya, thats the "mostly believes" part. There's always ways to play people against each other, homogeneous population makes it harder to drive home is the only point I'm making.
ADegenFromUpcountry
A lot harder? Not really. Pitch the poor against the rich. Catholics against Protestants. Straight against gay. Straight against trans. Christians against women. Pro-life against pro-choice. Shit I could do this all week
ZeroLogain
Poor against rich is the one they're using the rest to avoid happening. And you're right, but the less obvious the gaps the harder and more work it is to make it take hold and maintain. The more obvious the divisions the easier. It's harder to make someone hate another when they can more easily relate, and a homogeneous population has that. That's the only point I'm making.
LokilairTTV
I get your argument, it's not that it's impossible to pit people against one a other if they all look the same, it's just one less divisive tactice the powers that be can utilize to distract the working class.
[deleted]
[deleted]
andreyhimself
Because we NEED people. We don't have enough ppl to do our stuffz.
JeSuisIvre
I took a month-long road trip through Norway. There's literally only like 5 people living there
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
Cool, didn't know that. Something to say back to my dad next time he wants to throw debate-hands.
ozmethod
This is probably not the win you're looking for - Norway's immigration is overwhelmingly from neighboring countries, with mostly Caucasian populations. In fact, this may actually point to an unconscious bias of you and RuneL, where you saw 'immigration' and assumed something about the people.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
I assumed they were white immigrants, it's northern freaking Europe. The argument to beat is "America is the place where everyone everywhere wants to live because we're the best at everything, the shining city on the hill, with the best life ahead of anyone that comes here." Any little statistic helps. ...No it doesn't, I'll never convince my stubborn dad of anything no matter how right I am.