JackScagnetti1
412324
12622
986
This needs to be reposted
Mar 28, 2017 8:08 PM
JackScagnetti1
412324
12622
986
This needs to be reposted
judeseamus1972
He beat his ass in those debates.
whalethen
Look at total US debt and deficits by administration. They ballooned under Obama and Joe. He's just a career politician like all others.
stagg572
If only he had gotten a chance to fix it.
PatrickJIIIMcGuigan
Ryan is a sh*tty little college Republican worm.
DarkLynx13
For a man who I never heard of and I was afraid he was going to be like quayle was. This man has touched the hearts of many with his words.
Mcknizzle
That didn't cause the Great Recession and the democrats have added as much to the debt as the republicans have.
Rascalkingx
Paul "FuckBoii" Ryan
RickHalcyon
"Imma point at 'em"
snarflex
Is he generally pro-limited govt or was this a one-off thing? I don't really follow him, but that seems out of character for a Dem.
Mmmmmk
So much finger-pointing in Politics.
notme222
This makes as much sense as Trump blaming Obama's golf. Just more evidence, in politics any accusation about someone you dislike is valid.
elmitos
Riiight...
readysetchaos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFz6nXUmLdY&list=PL5FD6017428B5855C
readysetchaos
Audiobook explaining how the government created the great depression. Same fundamentals are behinds every other economic recession as well.
Beefkins
Let's not forget the guy that predicted it like a fucking prophet and got called crazy for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfascZSTU4o
ambiencenever
They should have used this clip inThe Big Short.
jminfante007
Weird that Obama spent close to $10 trillion in eight years. Almost more than all previous presidents combined.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
"More than all previous presidents combined"? That's not even CLOSE to reality. The US Govt spends ~4 trillion a year.
jminfante007
This is what I meant when I said liberals don't know what fiscal policy is. I talked about debt, not budget.
99problemsbutmycataint1
Shhhhh.. Obama is God here...
jminfante007
Leftists don't know much about good fiscal policy.
Crockpotseal
Too lazy to look, did Biden vote against Afghanistan? That would have been bold post-9/11
Sekai
He voted to go to war in Iraq in 2003 also
OutlawAggie
No, he voted to go to war
Crockpotseal
Hmm seems odd he'd be critical of them in that context. Maybe he argued they should raise taxes as they went to war
d06h0201
Three letters..... L-I-E-S!
NotYetNotYetNow
I don't know if you meant it as a joke or can't count till four - at this point I am afraid to ask
d06h0201
Joe Bidens famous line... its about a 3 lettered word J-O-B-S
NotYetNotYetNow
Ah, now I got it - i wasn't aware about that. Thanks
CatchyUsername123
Except none of those are reasons for the great Recession, they have nothing to do with it
IMakeStuff100
Sorry, but yes they did.
CatchyUsername123
Explain how any of those effected housing prices, I will give you a clue it didnt. The government backing loans to people who shouldnt
CatchyUsername123
have them did more damage
Froman816
Yet Obama added $7.917 trillion to the national debt.
smaug777000
The wars had very little to do with the housing bubble, the push for affordable housing, that you supported, had everything to do with it.
Johnbarelykorn
Let us not forget a Social Security account, filled with government IOUs.
SteveD31415
All your wealth is IOU's. Your investments are promises to give you money, if they decide to. Your bank account is bits in a computer.
thegreatfrenchcheeses
short-sighted view. Incorrect!
BestUsernameICouldThinkOf
The great recession came from the real estate bubble bursting. Not any of the things he mentioned.
sirbartonslady
I'm fairly certain that the Great Recession came from a LOT of factors, not one single factor. The housing one is just the biggest pimple.
srosenow98
Uh, the law that repealed Glass-Steagall that Clinton signed was primarily backed by Republicans and named after the three Rs that wrote it.
iLoveSkiing
So the banks was doing something funky speculating and selling loans and when it failed the goverment gave them more money instead of jail
CatchyUsername123
All this did was make Biden look like he has no idea what he is talking about
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
golly gee
JackScagnetti1
you think any of those things he mentioned helped? 2.4 trillion just for the 2 wars would really be nice right now
notme222
It's perfectly reasonable to be against the debt. Decidedly less so to blame the housing market on it.
TakWriterOfWorlds
Ten trillion by 2020, so, yeah.
SurfHill
Except the areas around military bases and defense plants were not effected as bad as others, so....
BestUsernameICouldThinkOf
It certainly would help the budget not paying interest on that debt, but it's irrelevant to the cause of the great recession.
AGracefulCombover
Not actually totally true. He's ignoring the housing programs of the 90s which encouraged selling subprime mortgages.
ArcaneConjecture
I gotta call "bullshit" every time is see this. Nobody has yet been able to link these mythical programs that encouraged subprime lending.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
It was not encouraged. It was POSSIBLE because the banks lobbied for it, then wanted to blame somebody else for their recklessness.
Maanee
Lmao, recklessness. They knew what they were doing. They were making money.
jgardner3611
The thing Trump is rolling back regulations on and encouraging again?
commodore69
You got a source for this? Is this really happening? It wouldn't even surprise me at this point.
plainoldfool
Also didn't help when Bill Clinton rolled back Glass-Steagall. There are a lot of dirty hands all over in (1)
JohnFloorwalker
Glas Stegall had little to nothing you do with the housing crisis.
plainoldfool
regards to the housing bubble/subprime mess.
suchislife101
I like Biden, but he was a complete ass in this debate.
Manisaning
Really? What happened? I know nothing about politics XD sorry
suchislife101
He basically patronized Ryan throughout the whole debate. Laughed during all of his answers. Just had a smug air about him. 1/2
suchislife101
I like Biden, but this was not one of his better moments. He really came across as an asshole.
Manisaning
yeah I guess so, well i have no side in politics anyway> For me, ignorance is bliss.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
It can seem patronizing trying to explain reality to a guy like Ryan who was painfully clueless and dishonest.
region12sec
So I did a bit of digging - between 1987 and 2015 when Repbs controlled congress our Debt went up by 5% avg per year. With Dems in control
region12sec
the number goes up to about 11%. When you factor out the recession years and the inevitable spend to get us out, we are at about 9% for Dems
region12sec
and still 5% for reps. We are also at 5% when houses are split over that time period.
myingling
Thanks for the actual digging. The truth: both parties have been financially irresponsible for ~100 years.
region12sec
idk if I'd deem is as financially irresponsible. The objetice of a government isn't to make money. It's to provide for it's people. If they
region12sec
can do that in a sustainable way without overburdening the economy, then debt isn't always a bad thing.
PeacefulWarfare
So much more factors into this. We could break it down into voting patterns based off of legislation presenting by each party, but time...
region12sec
Yeah of course. This is just one piece of a very complex puzzle. I just found it interesting so I shared.
marylanddd
also it would be worth looking into GDP changes, and how the debt:GDP ratios have changed under each party
Atalung
Um, 2008 was caused by over speculation of mortgage debt coupled with a lack of enforcement of existing regulations, not government debt
OhNoNotThatGuyQuickEverybodyHide
Government debt didn't cause it, but it sure didn't help the recovery.
spicepoet
It wasn't just 2008, but a number of factors from 2002 onwards. I do not disagree though.
dadudemon
Nobody cares about the truth, everybody's riden Biden.
DidItForScience
I think it was caused by all of these things mentioned.
Atalung
With a general economic slowdown caused foreclosures to skyrocket which killed the bonds causing the shorts to kick in which by then 4/5
Atalung
Shorts on the bonds grew super high. Eventually the bubble burst and house prices fell, leaving homeowners underwater, this coupled 3/4
Atalung
Customers and gave them AAA ratings. A few people found out and shorted the bonds, more people found out and as such the number of 2/3
Atalung
Their debts, this caused huge market turmoil and caused the crash. 6/6
Atalung
Were about 20 times the value of the bonds themselves, Lehman brothers alone held something like 50 trillion in obligations against 5/6
Atalung
Nah, basically mortgage bonds were packed with a few good mortgages and a bunch of bad ones, then ratings agencies defrauded 1/2
DidItForScience
And now I realize I meant Collateralized Debit Obligation.
DidItForScience
I am very familiar with the Credit Default Swap / Credit Default Option debacle. And yes that was a huge part of causing the recession.
SurfHill
Joe is my favorite Dem, but he was being seriously disingenuous knocking the Rx Benefit.
Stratego89
Rx benefit wouldn't need to be a discussion if we could just get single-payer health care already...
Stratego89
Rx benefit wouldn't need to be a discussion if we could just get single-payer health care already...
etagete
He's knocking the cost not benefit. Because it was not offset. Which is why he said it was on the credit card.
ChronologicalMyopia
I think the idea is you can't have two wars, a huge tax cut on the wealthy, AAAAAAND an Rx benefit and not go deeper into debt
GasBandit
The federal debt didn't cause the great recession, is the point.
Aelfinn
Well back in the 2012 election the "national debt" was one of those debated issues
Butane9000
As it was in 08 when Barack Obama said it was unpatriotic and then massively increased it by his administrations policies.
Aelfinn
The national debt massively increased because of quantitative easing, but if we're really getting into it the nat. debt. isn't a very 1/2
Aelfinn
2/2 big issue until it gets far ahead of 100% of GDP which is where it is now. Quantitative easing, btw, is what got us out of the recession
whothehellareyouanyway
JOE 2020
TheAngryBang
Fuckkkkk no
Codespace
Campaign slogan - "Biden my time"
flamingflamingo
Biden was actually my first choice in 2008 before he dropped out of the primaries. I wish he hadn't been Obama's VP, not much he can do.
whothehellareyouanyway
Mine too. I wanted Biden/Obama in 2008 so we could set up an Obama/Whoever after that.
ENCHANTMEN
LET'S GO WITH JOE
CorgiCircus
Unfortunately his time has passed it will be Kamala Harris 2020
MittensPlease
I've been saying this for months haha
LimerickGoblin
Yeh, because if this year has taught us anything - it's that presidential candidates are super easy to predict. /s
frogbog
HRC was
Leithreas
That's what people said in 2008, too.
KaneVel
Who?
FloodingWaters
JOE 2016.
DungeonMaster69
You roll 1.
iamthisguy247
We have to go back!!
XenomorphZZ
Back to the past!
whothehellareyouanyway
I did vote for Joe in 2016. But... it didn't work out.
Nathanfake
nevertheless +1
PeregrinTook13
Was this before or after he laughed at Ryan for saying that Russia was dangerous?
KharnApproves
Ryan doesn't seem too concerned with Russia right now.
SomeCrazyNerd
The situation changed with Russia.
SillyZombie
No it didnt, Barack just had no clue about eastern european relations as well as russia's affect on the SE
wasserhund
How so?
TraitorousTrump3
Billion dollar corruption in the current administration, which mostly wasn't in politics before a year ago.
FoeOfFauxPho
They invaded part of the Ukraine after Ukraine's democratically elected leader was ousted in a violent revolution that included Neo nazis
FoeOfFauxPho
and American support.
SomeCrazyNerd
They invaded the Ukraine. There was no reason to be dramatically concerned before they acted in that way. That when the UN and Obama acted.
369ItsAlwaysAGoodTime
This
sinte
gets support from russians, and somehow russians are the baddies. Fuck right off with that shit. The entire west of ukraine should just
BooksandBiceps
There was plenty of reasons. Just because they did yet *another* bad thing didn't suddenly make them risky.
ColonelColon
I dunno the facts of the Russian situation, but I feel like its similar to NK. Until they actually do something no one thinks they will.
sinte
to the pro-russian region of the country that wants nothing to do with west-sided ukrainians (they've always been anti donbass)
SocialMediaMakesUsLessSocial
They also invaded US politics in the form of the Republican party. Self-fulfilling prophecy much?
sinte
join poland since they're basically polish anyway and hate russians like they do, and let donbass go back to the land it was at before 80s
sinte
Oh fuck off, you know nothing of my country. A west-supported coup that had no legal right is somehow angelized, while russia's support
SomeCrazyNerd
They had a referendum under armed watch. Russia undemocratically took control. West's actions have not been perfect but Russia broke UN rule
BooksandBiceps
See: South Ossentia, Georgia, consistent nuclear threats, etc.
Vadderung
But those are small countries and not anywhere near Europe so they don't count. ;) P
SomeCrazyNerd
None of those were on the same level though. Obviously, otherwise there wouldn't have been dozens of governments changing their positions.
MidiArbite
They supplied forces to a counter-coup.
TheZade
Mr Greespan probably had more to do with that debt than Mr Bush did.
FatForYou
That's Mr President Mr Bush to you.
dajustifier
Certainly played his part though OIF will cost $7,000,000,000,000 if we done today & the Bush admin did a lot more than that.
rrlyrae
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/greenspan-comic-tom-tomorrow-salon.png
spicepoet
Agree. Janet Yellen needs to get a national hug.
Irongient
Nah, it was them fuckin republicans
GGNbatv
Did he have more to do with the debt, or rather with reducing regulations which lead to financial institutions and banks running amok?
override367
don't forget paulson, he waited until well after the dominoes started falling before he took action because THE MARKEEETTTT
eyebelieveanything
https://youtu.be/WJaW32ZTyKE
ChasePoppins
Ummm, not even close. I assume your talking about Tarp vs 2 wars and the wealthy tax cut.
thisiskissel
How much did the wars cost? US$3 trillion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War
DVSBSTrD
Mr. Bush had as little to do with anything because he was a clueless dick puppet of the Republican establishment.
[deleted]
[deleted]
thebeardo
I highly doubt that
PMMEURBEASTMASTER
Greenspan repeatedly reported a strong economy and pushed for continuing consumerism without ever sounding the alarm on the bubble
PretentiousMaaaaaaannnn
Google Minsky moment. Minsky argued that irresponsible financing was a byproduct of a strong economy. The details and predictions are neat
S3ns
For a second I got all excited that someone else read stuff by Marvin Minsky but nooo.
MrTay
Like may and mac causing a artificial market for the sub prime mortgages.
Yeroptok
Monetary policy was one factor but lack of regulation around loans is arguably bigger. Compare Canada in 2008 and thats the difference.
MushySnugs
bush was a puppet
Skizzlesnap
It was definitely due to Greenspan. Griftopia sites definitive proof of that.
DVSBSTrD
"Let the market correct itself. Now who wants to see me magically create more money for the fed?"
WardSharlow
Creating more money is normal. Lowering rates to near zero and creating fake "wealth" is what got us into trouble.
focusundrunkes
Yea, sometimes I feel my parents lived way beyond their means but hoped for the best. I haven't abandoned them though. I could but I won't.
pursuant2me
This is a political discussion, shame on you for making a logical statement!
ThereisanOPineveryNOPE
He's not pointing at bush that's Paul Ryan. That's why he says 'vote' the prez doesn't vote he signs and decides.
daveisamonster
Shh we must keep blaming the politicians so the people don't realize it's the entire system that's at fault
xrufus7x
Aren't politicians responsible for that system though? Seems like the buck would stop with the people writing the laws that allow the system
daveisamonster
The politicians follow the rules or they get shot
GuyThatHatesUsernames
Doubtful. Bush inherited a budget surplus, started two wars and cut taxes. Responsibility falls to him.
wiilyc22
Check your financial history, it didn't help but the bubble started with Reagan, Clinton had a huge impact, and it burst in 08.
GuyThatHatesUsernames
You're conflating markets going up and down with the fact that bush's policies were fiscally disastrous for deficits and debt
wiilyc22
No deregulation, with repeal of glass steagal and everyone deserves a home, sprinkle in gov, bank and homeowner irresponsibility.
wiilyc22
So did JP Morgan, bill Clinton, and every bank, and homeowner as well.
midsongnipplerub
Stop blaming poor people for what rich people did. The homeowner's were told that they were "investing" in real estate.
GasBandit
Barney Frank, screaming racism every time somebody said "hey maybe we shouldn't legislate the indigent into homeownership."
aguacatedeldiablo
That's not what happened. Read "The Big Short". This was essentially the tail end of the savings and loan crisis from the 80s.
ConstantlySearchingForMyDadOnImgur
Yeah who would of thought that corporations and regular people would have so much effect on a free market economy
eroso
I'll just leave this related, magnificent and insightful documentary here: https://vimeo.com/groups/96331/videos/80799353 Enjoy
rabaal
Let's also not forget that lending companies were sued in supreme court to lower the lending requirements, which lead to the crisis...
christopheeerrr
Hit the brakes, champ. Not every home owner was dumb enough to get a loan on something they couldn't afford. Some did their homework.
wiilyc22
No, and I do few bad for people that lost jobs etc. Wife and I got appr for 250k, didn't make sense so we took what we could afford if 1
wiilyc22
One of us lost a job, so we ended up taking 145k. I lost my job, but we kept our house. It's never just black and white but a lot of 2
wiilyc22
People just didn't ask how or why. They took the money. Which was irresponsible, so some of the blame lies with them.
TraitorousTrump3
Actually Congress who funded/reimbursed their fuck ups.
override367
Republican controlled congress for most of that time, and this was before Republicans invented the notion of requiring 60 on every bill
override367
I mean you can say Bush had nothing to do with the wars and tax cuts but that's a load of shit that only Trump would stand behind
flaccidhope
Bill Clinton had a budget surplus, no?
Rudywasoffside
He raided Social Security to do so
xrufus7x
I don't care what side of the isle you are on, this should be illegal.
Rudywasoffside
Especially considering SS operates at a deficit now. I love seeing the FICA contributions on my paycheck that I'll never get back.
wiilyc22
He also repealed the glass steagal act, and pulled the everyone deserves to own a home. He isn't solely responsible, but he had a hand in it
flaccidhope
And I'm reading a little more, Clinton did run a budget surplus towards the end but overall still added to the national debt.
override367
Clinton didn't invent the American dream of everyone owning a home
wiilyc22
No he just helped people believe that they could afford it, when they couldn't.
flaccidhope
I agrizzle. He bought into the Republicans' economic nonsense (on the basis that people didn't care for Democrat economics thrice in a row).
plainoldfool
He bought into neoliberalism and got in bed with Wall Street and the banking industry. I've read he and Gingrich were looking to putting (1)
wiilyc22
You can make this partisan if you like. Failures from Reagan all the way to bush to include the banks and homeowners. Greed caused this
WorldsSmallestMegaDick
Woah now, lets not blame every homeowner just the homeowners who ya know couldn't afford to own a home.
doodlemcgruder
Yeah every PMI payment I make is partially due to the people who walked away from their mortgages. And by partially I mean mostly.
plainoldfool
You are paying PMI because you didn't put down 20%. I was paying PMI well before the subprime mess.
Skizzlesnap
NINJA loans. No income, no job application.
wiilyc22
I blame the ones that didn't know or care to know that they couldn't afford their home. They share some responsibility.
MadDrDrillBit
thats called redlining and bill c would not allow it under the community reinvestment act.
kkus
I would think redlining is not even looking at applications for a certain neighborhood? Not the same as looking at income etc and deciding?
Skizzlesnap
But but the bank said I qualified for $600k so I thought the bank knew best. (Sarc)
aFadingMemory
There were greedy borrowers but there were also lenders that convinced good honest people they would ok, that it was a smart thing to do.
wiilyc22
Right, I heard basically that over and over. People that were resp, but lost jobs or such I do feel bad for.
AlltheAnswers
Single, young teacher making less than $40k w/ sizable student loans when I bought my first home. Bank pre-approved $200k. Only spent $30k.
onefootout
Homeowners that were lead into loans they couldn't afford by jackweasles making a ton off of them.
IUpvoteBoxes
the banks lobbied against having to make those loans, but congress under Clinton passed it anyways. This led to the "predatory" loans (1)
wiilyc22
Indeed. They were definitely a problem. A lot of shit went on and it took about 20-30 years to come to a head, which most don't understand.
Skizzlesnap
Hence why credit default swaps became a thing.
onefootout
Correct.
wiilyc22
Predatory loans yes, at what point do people take responsibility for their financial decisions. If they didn't, then that is on them.
randomdrifter54
Problem is if you use enough accounting buzzwords and seem like you know what you're talking about most people would not know they can't.
wiilyc22
But that lies with responsibility. If you don't know, seeking someone who does. Trusting someone who makes money off a deal is a wrong start
IUpvoteBoxes
which the banks understandably wanted nothing to do with, as they were shit, and they didn't want them in the first place.
EXiSTENCEthreshold
So they sold it. The ones that ended up having them last fell. It's like the chair game and music stopped playing in 2008.
IUpvoteBoxes
Hahaha. Not quite but thats a good one, haven't heard it before. Had more to do with underestimating risk levels of the relative payouts
onefootout
That's not the case friend, they made mad bank on reselling subprime mortgage loans, which is the prob.
IUpvoteBoxes
(1) They didn't want to make loans to high risk individuals. so they sold them off in bulk packages to companies for, yes, profit.
IUpvoteBoxes
(3) calculations useless. Payout rates and numbers were far lower than expected, so companies that bought these things couldn't repay short
IUpvoteBoxes
(2) however they underestimated the rate of people defaulting, which because of the structure of how they sold them (tranches), made risk
IUpvoteBoxes
(4) term loans, which raised interest rates and then it cascaded endlessly into the madness that was the subprime mortgage crisis. Thats
IUpvoteBoxes
(5) why its referred to as "SUBprime", I'm simplifying of course, but this could take hours of discussion to explain in full.
MdM9990
Great Recession came from retarded credit standards to fool people into thinking they had the American dream
Doog111
It came from Obama adding $10 Trillion to the $11 Trillion balance those cards had on them when he started.
possiblymanbearpig
Keep believing what Bill O'Fuckstick tells you and it'll happen again.
AllMyPlantsAreDreaming
The Great Recession came from everyone EVERYONE ignoring like 13 failure gates
stillchucktesta
From the Clinton administration that removed a reg that allowed banks to gamble with your money
AbeFromanSausageKingOfChicago
And deregulation which is apparently in style again
idonotthinkitownswhatyouthinkitowns
There's no need for hurtful language like that.
swinglinered
Combined with repeals of related regs. so that unwise borrowing could be profited from.
mellowdrama
Which lead to the American nightmare.
Dogalicious
'Everything seems worse when you remember it' - Homer Simpson
getthismanabeer
Thanks, Bill.
alchemist23
And Goldman-Sachs had nothing to do in it? Bullshit. That's blaming the victim
unpopularopinionlord
This.. it also came from a housing bubble and the 2nd wave of dot com businesses failing. Biden has a point but there's a lot more to it.
linanc7
Would be surprised if you could get a ninja mortgage anymore
voldead
The American dream is alive and real. In fact it is in many countries around the world except in United States now.
SurfHill
Also, while Bernie Madoff's scam didn't have much of a direct impact, just 10-65 Billion lost, it greatly impacted confidence in markets.
dangerousDoc
And fucked up bankers/gov agencies not doing their job and putting things at their proper value because they get money from it in the end
dangerousDoc
Most of which I'll tell you came from democratically ran leaderships taking money on the side to keep lax standards
Pundamentalist
"The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin
pdxenburg
No, or was caused by a credit freeze when the financial markets tired itself into a knot over default credit swaps.
TheFastpaws
I've never had the dream. Nor do I believe my government ever wants me to experience it. I'm certain they like me being poor with uni.
boopitybapity
Credit default swap
awkwardmoment
"You must make 1/3 of your loans to sub median income households regardless of housing market." Policy so stupid it made the ACA look good.
ArcaneConjecture
That's misleading. If a borrower is poor, you don't HAVE to make a subprime loan. You just loan him less money...and the loan is sound.
awkwardmoment
Nope. You are neglecting constraints.
pdxenburg
Source? Banks couldn't write those loans fast enough. That want the bigger problem
awkwardmoment
pg. 500, Table 5. https://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-reports/fcic_final_report_wallison_dissent.pdf
ArcaneConjecture
He's talking about Fannie and Freddie. They were required to loan to working-class people. Still doesn't excuse AIG and Countrywide, though.
Segesta
Much of it started in the 1990s when the federal government leaned on banks to lend to unfit borrowers.
ArcaneConjecture
This is a rightwing fake news lie. Whenever I see it, I ask for a link to this mythical law or regulation. A link is never provided.
ASecondAngryPandaEntersTheScene
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_policies_and_the_subprime_mortgage_crisis#The_Housing_and_Community_Development_Act_of_1992
ArcaneConjecture
The 1992 Act set goals for Fannie and Freddie. There was no requirement for BANKS to make these loans. They did on their own, out of greed.
ArcaneConjecture
The 1992 Act set goals for Fannie and Freddie. There was no requirement for BANKS to make these loans. They did on their own, out of greed.
ASecondAngryPandaEntersTheScene
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html
ArcaneConjecture
Time Magazine is wrong. Please read the Community Reinvestment Act and show exactly where it required banks to make bad loans. (It didn't).
nemofourteen
and the people? they wanted to be fooled
EmilysHair
Here's Margot Robbie in a bubble bath to explain...
LordMoo
Wait is the great recession just the GFC?
ThePitWimp
Which was VERY similar to the Great Depression
afterdinneromelets
Exactly. And we'll probably just do it all over again in the next century.
sexconker
Nooooooope. Comparing 2008 to the great depression is like comparing a child to cancer.
mshoff1
Started by the repeal of the Glass–Steagall legislation in 1999, which removed the restrictions between banks and securities firms.
awkwardmoment
No.
Gallus1985
Who set the bull loose? Hint: not Clinton. Though he holds some of the blame. And more notability, conservative/centrist congressmen.
XaiaX
No it started in the 80s when we made only mortgage debt deductible instead of all consumer debt. So EVERYTHING became mortgage debt.
XaiaX
Since it was tax deductible, people would refinance all sorts of things by piling it into the mortgage, which inflated house prices.
XaiaX
People are sold the lie that housing prices only ever go up, but they're a durable good, not a bond. Without demand, price falls.
XaiaX
People don't want to or can't sell for less than they paid, banks don't want to realize the loss. So you get millions of empty houses.
mpweezy
What's fucked is most people have no clue what you are talking about. Our country is fubar...too many idiots.
isthiswhereiputmyusernameat
"the economy will never be bad again" -an actual adult I work with
HD226868
Some actually said that?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uTsqJVAeo
isthiswhereiputmyusernameat
Yep, and they have a college education
HD226868
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s
bryyy
Oh yeah. Lots I know believe this. Just "too big to fail" cockiness :/
isthiswhereiputmyusernameat
No one knows that recessions happen every 8 ish years or so
Alvatore
"Again" implies it has stopped being bad.
MyLifeisaComplicatedDrinkingGame
Yes. Because dude telling people the world is their oyster is is going elected every time over the dude who says be sensible and work hard.
Tientchik
Watched The Big Short last week. It was really informative about what led to the Great Recession. It's on Netflix now
hurdygurdybear
Awesome movie in its own right too. Great use of zeppelin
forgetfulvegetarian
Great movie long but so worth it
IAmInAGlassCaseOfEmotion
Great movie, and tells of the banking/investing shenanigans. The documentary "money for nothing" tells the rest of the story (hint: the fed)
CoolHandRK
Watch "Too big to fail" as well. See the other side of it. What a shit show all the way around.
snow33
Read the book if you want even better details , the more you know the scarier it gets
undungubungu
What it doesnt tell you is the Federal Reserves role in that, and its lenient policies in the wake of 9/11, that ultimately led to banks 1/2
undungubungu
creating these extremely questionably MBS products. Banks are "just" rational actors, and will create those products if they can. 2/2
undungubungu
questionable*
undungubungu
If you want more info on this, you can watch the docu: "Money for nothing: Inside the federal reserve" 2/3 (Sorry)
LucianKane
Watch 'Inside Job', also on Netflix. It dies a better job at explaining things than 'The Big Short' did, think of it like a companion.
GrabEmByTheEmbassy
So much this
GrabEmByTheEmbassy
I went to that movie with my mother at a film festival years ago thinking it would be about 9/11 and came out furious. I'm Canadian
Valj
Great movie. Another good one is Too Big to Fail, I think HBO made it.
Swarles
This is one of my favorite movies and the most informative I have seen on the recession.
mBulbe
.
WannaMakeTenBucks
And it hasn't stopped.
GeorgeBushHatesBlackPuppets
The amount of 20 something's with BMW's is crazy, but with clean credit and a job they'll gladly lease you one
MasterNateT
I own a BMW, I'm 28, and it's paid off. But I bought used, and saved up for a hefty down payment. Just saying, it can be done responsibly.
jenniferlawrenceisabear
Its business as usual. And guess what, its going to end the same way it did before only twice as bad.
MasterNateT
Yup. Now we've got student loans and high costs of education and loans being passed out to literally anyone with a heartbeat.
jenniferlawrenceisabear
Its business as usual. And guess what, its going to end the same way it did before only twice as bad.
RetConMan
It sure worked for those people who had the actual American Dream! :) :( :'(
photog
Mortgages are not as bad now but I heard the auto industry is going into the sub prime business.
pragmatao
As shitty as that is, $20k isn't nearly as bad as$200k.
FartingChipmunk
As a State Farm guy that does auto loans, sub prime is huge right in auto. But what happens is every couple months they go through a cycle.
FartingChipmunk
2) they loan a bunch of money to people that shouldn't have it, bites them, they stop for a couple months, then start again.
LetumComplexo
Yah, John Oliver made a great video on the subject.
TheManInsideMebyDrTobiasFunke
Sub prime?
blackcrow993
Complete dogshit.
PhantomGinge
Dogshit.
blackcrow993
I understood that reference. And it's absolutely right.
Chewbaccabra
High interest loans for people with poor credit. Borrowers with bad credit, low income are considered less than prime
TheManInsideMebyDrTobiasFunke
So in order to sell more cars they're giving loans to people who wouldn't typically qualify?
sowitty
i had a friend who was 15k in credit debt and when i expressed concern they told me "that's what adults do"
iwanttomountndewya
Besides student loans I've come to the conclusion that either I choose to be in perpetual debt or just do everything in "cash"
DJSassySam
And now 15k+ in student loan debt is also "what adults do" :(
ragekritz
I'm an adultttt no but it's just student loans. :c
timeconsumer117
Only 15k in student loans?! That's a very conservative figure.
BigDaddysMeatWagon
15k? Please, those are rookie numbers. I got $60k
moosehugger
Student loan debt isn't nearly as bad as credit card debt. Interest on credit cards will fuck you side ways and ask if you want 2nds.
samsonguy920
And credit cards and creditors who buy that debt will not stop trying to collect. They have even pushed to allow credit card debt to >
samsonguy920
> pass to next of kin.
Gallus1985
15k in credit card debt isn't really a huge deal imho. Now if you got 15k in CC debt, a 50k car loan, 300k mortgage and make 30k a year....
xrufus7x
Having debt isn't intrinsically bad. It depends on what they use it for.
reux
This. Debt is not necessarily bad if it's not abused. Even the National Debt. Loans ... Everyone has them.
GKrollin
Issued by the FHA, VA, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac, while Bill Clinton was in office
pdxenburg
Those were easy to bailout, and not what caused the depth of the recession
GKrollin
They literally originated every single home loan that collapsed during the recession. Not most, not 90% of. Every. Single. One.
pdxenburg
Yep. And we paid $200B to bail them out. That was just the surface of what crashed the economy
Gallus1985
The laws and regulations that lead to the Great Recession and our current issues statted with Reagan actually. The bulk of it is on him.
GKrollin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_legislation#Decline_and_repeal
GKrollin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_legislation#Decline_and_repeal
Gallus1985
Gunna give you a thumbs up for knowing that conservatives ideology of deregulation is a horrible thing.
Gallus1985
Yup, Clinton's repeal of glass stegall was a bad thing. But that's just one of many issue, most if which Reagon holds the blame for.
GKrollin
Want to provide some evidence as I have?