WildYucatanMan
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Roman Legions fight against Germanic tribes in the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest. A battle that would change history.
By the year 9 A.D. Rome had been an empire for 36 years and was seeking to expand it's territory. North of its borders along the river Rhine was Germania, a territory rich in resources & populated by "barbarians". Rome sees this territory on its northeast border as a natural extension to their expanding empire and sends three legions, composed of around 20,000 men, under the command of General Varus to conquer it. It would end up becoming a military campaign so disastrous it was said to have driven Emperor Caesar Augustus insane for none of the three legions would ever make it back to Rome alive.
The Northeast Border of the Roman Empire with the River Rhine as its border.
"By the beginning of the Christian Era, Rome’s sway extended from Spain to Asia Minor, and from the North Sea to the Sahara. The imperial navy had turned the Mediterranean into a Roman lake, and everywhere around the rim of the empire, Rome’s defeated enemies feared her legions—or so it seemed to optimistic Romans. “Germania” (the name referred originally to a particular tribe along the Rhine), meanwhile, did not exist as a nation at all. Various Teutonic tribes lay scattered across a vast wilderness that reached from present-day Holland to Poland. The Romans knew little of this densely forested territory governed by fiercely independent chieftains. They would pay dearly for their ignorance." - Smithsonian Magazine
A Roman bust of Arminius
His Germanic name is lost to history. What is known is that at a young age, the son of a noble Germanic tribesmen was kidnapped by the Romans. He was given the latin name "Arminius" and trained to be a Roman Legionaire. He was so good at being a soldier that eventually he was promoted to an Officer in the Roman Army and given Roman Citizenship. Arminius was someone special to the Roman army. It was customary that whenever the Romans would conquer a new territory, it was invaluable to have someone on their side who already knew the land, people, and language. When General Varus, commander of the three legions sent to invade Germania would begin his campaign he brought Arminius with him. However Arminius would never stop identifying himself as Germanic and would end up betraying Varus. It would be the biggest betrayal of a Roman since Brutus assassinated Caesar only 53 years earlier.
"General Varus, 55, was linked by marriage to the imperial family and had served as Emperor Augustus’ representative in the province of Syria (which included modern Lebanon and Israel), where he had quelled ethnic disturbances. To Augustus, he must have seemed just the man to bring Roman civilization to the barbarous” tribes of Germany." - Smithsonian Magazine
The Roman column marches into the Teutoburg Forest
Although the Romans hadn't conquered Germania they had a few small outposts in the region where they attempted to establish a colony. However the seasons were changing and they were headed back into Roman territory to winter there. That was when Arminius decided to spring his trap. He told General Varus that a rebellion was taking place in Northern Germania. Eager to establish Roman rule, Varus took the bait and marched his three legions into the vast Teutoburg Forest. The forest was unknown to them. It was a dark, foreign, and densely wooded place, not like the open ground in which the Roman military was good at fighting in. Worse was the weather. Storms began pouring rain causing their trail to become muddy and difficult. Because of the difficulty of the terrain, the soldiers marched in a column (estimated to be between 5-8 miles long,) in order to travel through the forest. However unknown to General Varus, Arminius had already secretly gathered the various tribes of Germania and unified them to launch an assault on the Romans, the very army he was supposedly serving.
The Germanic Tribesmen assault the Roman Column
As the miles long column marched, the Germanic tribesmen began to harasses the tail of the column continually killing the Romans a small contingent at a time. As soon as they would kill plenty of them the tribesmen would disappear into the forest again where the Romans couldn't chase them. Because the tribesmen would only attack a portion of the column at a time, this led to disarray and chaos as their hit and run tactics rendered the superior Roman numbers and style of fighting useless. The front of the column had no idea what was happening when the back of the column was being attacked, the officers ahead of the line couldn't pass orders to portions that were coming under attack, the dense woods and the stretched out column meant they couldn't effectively fight in formation. The long snake that was the Roman column was being cut apart piece by piece. With the legions in disarray the calvary decided to abandon their post. However when they attempted to escape they found themselves surrounded by hordes of tribesmen who cut them all down.
" with no room to maneuver, exhausted after days of hit-and-run attacks, unnerved, they were at a crippling disadvantage.”" - Smithsonian Mag
The Germanic tribes ambush the Romans, cutting of their escape.
The traditional infantry fighting style of the Legions proved ineffective against the guerrilla fighting style of the tribesmen.
September 11th, 9 A.D. Rome loses full 1/10 of its army to Germanic Tribesmen.
When General Varus saw that there was no way they would ever make it out of the forest alive, and realizing that Arminius had betrayed him, he fell on his sword and killed himself. The rest of the Roman officers would follow suit. With no one to lead them the Romans were helpless. Caught between hills and bogs, caught between the forest and the tribesmen, what was left of the Roman Army was trapped with nowhere to go. It was a massacre. When it was all over the Germanic tribes had completely wiped out all three legions, around a full 1/10th of the Empire's army!
"More than 10 percent of the entire imperial army had been wiped out—the myth of its invincibility shattered. In the wake of the debacle, Roman bases in Germany were hastily abandoned. Emperor Augustus, dreading that Arminius would march on Rome, expelled all Germans and Gauls from the city and put security forces on alert against insurrections." - Smithsonian Magazine
A Roman solider staked to a tree.
Those who managed to survive the massacre would be treated to a worse fate. The remaining Roman captives were ritually tortured and executed by the tribesmen. Some were skinned alive, others burned alive, others decapitated, and others crucified to the trees.
"A Garden of Bones"
"Six years would pass before a Roman army would return to the battle site. The scene the soldiers found was horrific. Heaped across the field at Kalkriese lay the whitening bones of dead men and animals, amid fragments of their shattered weapons. In nearby groves they found “barbarous altars” upon which the Germans had sacrificed the legionnaires who surrendered. Human heads were nailed everywhere to trees. In grief and anger, the aptly named Germanicus, the Roman general leading the expedition, ordered his men to bury the remains, in the words of Tacitus, “not a soldier knowing whether he was interring the relics of a relative or a stranger, but looking on all as kinsfolk and of their own blood, while their wrath rose higher than ever against the foe.” - Smithsonian Magine
A 1909 painting depicting Arminius leading the German Tribes against the Romans.
The Roman defeat at the Teutoburg Forest was a loss so severe that Rome never again tried to invade or conquer Germania. Germania would forever remain independent and free from Rome and their cultural influence. The devastating loss of three complete legions would haunt the psyche of Rome. How could the might of the Empire be defeated by barbarians?
"It was a defeat so catastrophic that it threatened the survival of Rome itself and halted the empire’s conquest of Germany. “This was a battle that changed the course of history,” says Peter S. Wells, a specialist in Iron Age European archaeology at the University of Minnesota and the author of The Battle That Stopped Rome. “It was one of the most devastating defeats ever suffered by the Roman Army, and its consequences were the most far-reaching. The battle led to the creation of a militarized frontier in the middle of Europe that endured for 400 years, and it created a boundary between Germanic and Latin cultures that lasted 2,000 years...The historian Suetonius, writing a century after the battle, asserted that the defeat “nearly wrecked the empire.” Roman writers, says Wells, “were baffled by the disaster.” Though they blamed the hapless Varus, or the treachery of Arminius, or the wild landscape, in reality, says Wells, “the local societies were much more complex than the Romans thought. They were an informed, dynamic, rapidly changing people, who practiced complex farming, fought in organized military units, and communicated with each other across very great distances.” - Smithsonian Magazine
A statue of Arminius erected in his honor as the "Unifier of Germany" points his sword towards France.
"Arminius, without doubt Germania's liberator, who challenged the Roman people not in its beginnings like other kings and leaders, but in the peak of its empire; in battles with changing success, undefeated in the war." - Roman Historian
"Arminius was hailed as the first national hero of Germany. “The myth of Arminius,” says Benario, “helped give Germans their first sense that there had been a German people that transcended the hundreds of small duchies that filled the political landscape of the time...By 1875, as German militarism surged, Hermann, (The Modern Name Germans gave to Arminius) had been embraced as the nation’s paramount historical symbol; a titanic copper statue of the ancient warrior, crowned with a winged helmet and brandishing his sword menacingly toward France, was erected on a mountaintop 20 miles south of Kalkriese, near Detmold, where many scholars then believed the battle took place. At 87 feet high, and mounted on an 88-foot stone base, it was the largest statue in the world until the Statue of Liberty was dedicated in 1886. Not surprisingly, the monument became a popular destination for Nazi pilgrimages during the 1930s." - Smithsonian Magazine
"Had Rome not been defeated, says historian Herbert W. Benario, emeritus professor of classics at Emory University, a very different Europe would have emerged. “Almost all of modern Germany as well as much of the present-day CzechRepublic would have come under Roman rule. All Europe west of the Elbe might well have remained Roman Catholic; Germans would be speaking a Romance language; the Thirty Years’ War might never have occurred, and the long, bitter conflict between the French and the Germans might never have taken place.” - Smithsonian Magazine
A Panoramic View of the Statue of Arminius in a German Forest
Thoraxe123
Absolutelybarbaric.jpg
WaitingonCoffee
Thank you for making sure we never forget.
levieuxquicrisesarace
and where was biggus...
StephanieHanSola
Hahahahahahahahaaa
igotbannedfortryingtofaceswapmytesticle
GIVE ME BACK MY LEGIONS
Snowchill
Three years after this, the Germanic tribes killed Arminius themselves in anger over the continuous revenge attacks of the Romans.
IreadtomuchDresdenFiles
Thanks for the information. But isn't the long bitter conflict between France and German rooted in the heritage of Charles the Great?
ZeOberon
And his three sons; yes!
C0mtraya
I don't understand how the romans could be defeated, they had advanced tactics and technology:
Vangallus
ThePigeons
twinkle twinkle little star, I can see your repost bar
Sacurason
When people tell me that history is boring, I explain this battle and its repercussions. It usually works.
WildYucatanMan
grebnets
I go to college in New Ulm, MN, where theres literally a 100 ft. statue of Arminius right across the street. 1st time seeing this on imgur!
WildYucatanMan
sauce?
grebnets
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Heights_Monument
ScottSterlingAWallThatCanFeelPain
As a Historian I can say well done OP
WildYucatanMan
Thanks ;) I'm an enthusiast so I love sharing this
TywinStannister
TIL France is straight up.
Frozenpasties
Hmm? I don't think the Gauls had anything to do with this.
odamanda
Also on September 11th, the Chilian democracy was overthrown by a coup backed up by the US, inaugurating 16 years of a bloody dictature.
lifeisaburrito
Back when men were men. And women were men. And children were men.
justahumanbeing
Thats almost not figurative 12 boys were swinging swords. Make ya think what pussies weve became
kayfelix
and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
canadianreserve
And torturing people made you a "hero".
Gaarwaronja
"EZ PZ LEMN SQZZY" the barbarians said to Varus and he fell on his sword
boobcat
It was customary for Chiefs to give their eldest sons to Romans as insurance against rebellion but they were raised as Nobles. Not kidnpped
WildYucatanMan
Although that is true, according to my research Arminius didn't go willingly
Flyndaran
Children and women for that matter weren't really "human" and didn't have many rights. So it becomes a semantic modern view thing.
Ekajra
If you to see an Arminius statue but can't make it to Germany, there's a similar one in New Ulm, MN.
KharnApproves
Is that sword also pointed at France?
JBRINXSY
I'm from there... Statue is nice.. Check out the brewery too..
Rohlk
I was there yesterday for Hermannfest. http://hermannmonument.com
fulminatrix
Oh, thanks for that. My best friend lives in MN and I love big statues so I'll probably go have a look when next I road trip that way.
Ekajra
Yep, Herman the German Monument in New Ulm. On top of a hill in the middle of a town instead of a forest, so a bit easier to get to.
NonKonformingKobold
ktmaye
northcarolinaisbeststate
There actually is no proof of it being 9/11. Or in September for that matter. It could be 9/9 9/24 or even 10/19
WildYucatanMan
:)
InformalProof
Also historically critical was the 1638 Ottoman Siege of Vienna, which was defeated on Sept 11, preventing the spread of Islam in W. Europe
MyRegularAcctIsntAnonymousEnough
let's all have croissants!!
MostIndeedlySo
Gates of Vienna! Did the Ottomans try the same shit twice or do I remember it wrong?
chinablue
I've always considered the naval battle of The Spanish Armada Of 1588 to be the most important to history.
InformalProof
Each has its own impact, yea the sinking of the Armada prevented Spain rule in Eng but the course of history wasn't changed too much
chinablue
North and South America felt a heavy impact from it.
InformalProof
See Wars of Spanish Succession and Spanish colonization of America, Spanish influence limited in Europe but economically self sufficient
theshoeminator
Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
theshoeminator
"You remind me of my cousin's cat. Killed that too!"
TheMCJarhead
Can't wait to count out your coins.
CreamAndShit
Can't wait to gut one of Ulfric's boys.
Zarkai
The Battle of Vienna is another important battle that took place on the 11th of September. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna
Ghosthunter100
I was looking for a comment about this.
Zarkai
It's generally considered to be the battle that stopped the Ottoman Empire's expansion into Europe.
MadAtreides
little known fact: the romans retaliated, destroyed 6 tribes and received Arminius head after he fled from the romans for 3 years
AugustusCaesarXIII
Good.
JohnFisher89
I was about to say if i was in charge i would have launched a massacre on a scale never seen before whatever happened to eye for a eye ....
Flyndaran
ANY leader of ANY army in history would escalate killing, not decide it wasn't worth more bloodshed. That's not how we killer apes think.
MadAtreides
The tribes were the marsi, bructeri, tubanti, usipeti, chatti and cherusci.
scrim4
The Marsi were an Italic people, Romans. The other tribes are all known to have existed until at least early Medieval times. Further, I've..
MadAtreides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsi_(Germanic)
scrim4
So you were right about the Marsii then. The rest you made up, or at the very least were naive about what you read.
scrim4
... never heard of any source claiming that Arminius' head was delivered to the Romans; Many of those involved in his death were anti-Roman.
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
Eh, Arminius still controlled his tribe after Germanicus expedition ended. He was then betrayed and killed though. Didn't hear about the 1
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
2 head thing. Where was that written? I'm interested in more sources on the Germanic/Roman wars.
manimatr0n
You need to read up on the Migration Era then.
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
I have read a lot on the Migration Era, I have a paper published on how much migration actually occurred. Fascinating era.
manimatr0n
What's the paper? GIMME GIMME
MadAtreides
Tacitus, annales book 2,88. Adgandestrius promised the romans to poison and send Arminius head, Tiberius refused but the head was later sent
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
Thank you, it's been years since I read Tacitus, might be time for a reread.
EmanNiemThcin
His germanic name might just have been Armin, that is still a german name today and Armin/Ermin is old germanic for "great/enormous".
Premed
So you're thinking he was maybe Ermin the German ;)
EmanNiemThcin
Sadly that does not rhyme in german, but +1 anyway ^^
Premed
It rhymes when I use my ridiculous Irish / movie style over the top German accent ( still not as bad as Hank the Yank)
YamatoIouko
And here I thought "Armin" meant annoying blonde little shit.
Salkinus
Hey im not little :c
YamatoIouko
Who sounds like a majestic fucking eagle.
HooperAintchaWatchin
DO YOU SING?!
YamatoIouko
Wha...what?
HooperAintchaWatchin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaZLJba27c8
RetroPhantom
Caesar did 9/11.
malfunctionm1ke
Varus did 9/11
W4RNVRCHNGS
It's not even funny. People died. It was only 15 years ago. Stop making these ducking jokes especially ON 911 it's just makes you sound dumb
RetroPhantom
about a Roman event.
RetroPhantom
Sir/ma'am, please calm down. 'Tis only a joke. Also, it was 15 years ago. That feels like long enough to wait until I can make a joke 1/2
W4RNVRCHNGS
Wow your a fucking dick.
RetroPhantom
Well I sincerely disagree, sir/ma'am, but I don't think you're any less entitled to your opinion.
WildYucatanMan
Knives can't melt the Emperors flesh
BigisDickis
He's got a point
VitaminJay
MFW The Caesar Reptiloid Conspiracy is brought up again:
:D
iNarrateYourReply
Roman army was decimated in the truest sense of the word.
BayazTheBenevolent
[laughs in latin]
WildYucatanMan
manimatr0n
A legion was. Then they brought the hate.
warick
Meanwhile, the Saxons were beginning to hate.
manimatr0n
Saxons were still about 200 years out
supraman2turbo
I see what you did there
fulminatrix
Yes! It bothers me when people say "decimated" when they mean a huge percentage was slaughtered. It's one-tenth and one-tenth only.
ChrisG0140
http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/09/does-decimate-mean-destroy-one-tenth/ tldr: using the original meanings of words is dumb
fulminatrix
I don't think it's dumb in all cases, but in this case I did have the incorrect information and apologize for that.
ChrisG0140
No worries I usually can't relate a polite conversation in 120 characters+a link. But yeah really cool to admit a lack of knowledge :)
WildYucatanMan
How come no one has pointed out yet that 9/11/9 was LITERALLY an inside job?
Jenselina
they're all in on it
Seleyon
Barbaric tribes can't melt Roman columns.
DedotadedAmountOfWham
harveybirdmanesquire
You double dippin sonovabitch you
JoshuaMcarthur
Vll/Xl was a part time job!
rbudrick
Nein,.
WrongUn
one may say they foresaw the......status quo?
Anhabanana
Psh, nice try, and be on a conspiracy theorist blacklist so we'd be the first to go when the oligarchical take over takes effect?
Anhabanana
I mean, ... no ....
EmileLewis
Jesus, that's the best joke I've heard all day. Thank you.
Arminerino
Arminius arminerino armini reporterini inerini. Wake up sheeple Germanic spears can't melt roman shields.
Dsaekca
Arminius did 9/11
PeeHoleSoup
Roman 9/11. Never forget.
MogseyInnit
Nah roman 9/11 was in the summer of 69(ad) when vespasian marched right into rome and slaughtered the praetorians to a man
WrongUn
*Neverus Forgeticii
TimeAndMemeLordOfGallifrey
Praetorian Guard can't melt Barbarian beams
DongSayaDae
Seems Barbarian beams can melt Praetorian Guard though.
Taihennami
*spears
Dusty49
*dreams
Burlaczech
*memes
ThePigeons
TacticalZombie
Isn't it IX/XI/IX?
AbrahamChow
Roman dating does t work like that
AbrahamChow
It would 3 days before the ides of september
Wolfmanwolf
Year one for the Romans was the founding of Roman in the year 750 BC. So really it'd be the year 759 for them
TacticalZombie
I'm learning so much from this
finnforfun
Six six six
codayop
Nifty255
If the Romans had won, it would be.
Martecles
nemisys
Nein eleven
DukeDarkwood
Actually, it's a.d. (ante diem) III Idus Septembris - "the third day before the Ides of September). But, they count inclusively - the Ides
DukeDarkwood
are the 13th that month (only four months see it on the 15th), but they count it, the 12th, and the 11th, getting "third".
sms001
1/2 Nicely written and picced, OP. I remember the Smithsonian article from about 10 years ago(?) - there's also several good documentaries
GuacamoleMoleMolester
"I picc on you" - OP, probably
haHAaaaaaahhh
TIL
ILikeItWhenYouCallMePibblePapa
If anybody is interested in learning more about Rome, I highly recommend The History of Rome podcast by Mike Duncan. Awesome stuff.
Imjeep
.
WildYucatanMan
Also check out the history channel doc "Warriors: Barbarian Massacre" hosted by Green Beret Terry Schappert
qussow
Noted, thanks.
sms001
I caught the very tail end of it once when I still had cable - will hunt it down again, thanks.
tankmemes
Also do Germania: the nation that defeated rome
MrGloo
.
TheAssyrianMafia
.
EmanNiemThcin
Even better: Find an english Version of "Der Sieg über Varus" (Victory against Varus) by german historian H D Stöver, pretty good read.
EmanNiemThcin
It contains discussions with both: retired army generals and leading experts on the ancient germanic tribes.
sms001
Thanks!
CarcharodonCarcharias
Varus, give me back my legions!
peddroelm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5FfqADDqOE
Mithi
„Quintili Vare, legiones redde!“
Bauunion
http://cdn.wallpapersafari.com/23/86/7mGhlz.jpg Here you go, @CarcharodonCarcharias
CarcharodonCarcharias
Thanks bro
Bauunion
Anytime bro
GuacamoleMoleMolester
WhoDidYouExpect
CarcharodonCarcharias
supraman2turbo
Then Germanicus came along and defeated Arminius in battle. Not just beat him, kicked his ass.
Skuldi
There's a difference between uniting tribes and striking at that which was deemed invincible, and fighting an open battle.
fulminatrix
And he recovered 2 out of 3 lost legionary eagles. Had Tiberius been less paranoid, Tacitus said he might have actually conquered Germania.
WildYucatanMan
sauce plz
supraman2turbo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanicus
fulminatrix
In the Annals of Tacitus 2.26 he says victory was regarded as a certainty and Germanicus was called away because of Tiberius' jealousy.
manimatr0n
Ehhhh. The material benefits of expanding beyond the Rhine were negligible at that point.
fulminatrix
Oh, no, I think they did better to not over-expand at that point. Tacitus didn't know what we know now. The tribes admired some elements of1
fulminatrix
Rome and were mostly alright as auxiliaries, but I don't think their kin-first way of thinking would've meshed well overall with SPQR. 2/2