thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
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Morning!
After America gained their independence the British did NOT blame their defeat on the intervention of the French.
They claimed it was because of events to do with the Dutch that cost them the colonies.
Indeed the Dutch involvement in the war is often overlooked. And it shouldn’t be. The Dutch lost a LOT in supporting the Americans. Pound for pound they sacrificed way more than the French ever did. And they made the war for American independence a global conflict, causing fighting in four continents.
But why DID they get involved? And why did some British at the time say the Dutch caused them to lose the war in America?
Take a break from savouring that fresh cup of freedom you just brewed, and if you got 25 minutes, remember your true allies.
Happy 4th of July America- now allow a Brit tell the tale of your teams MVP.
TL;DR: the Dutch were way more important than the French during the war of independence! Proof? Below.
MOST VIRAL EDIT: Happy Birthday America. Thanks for the front page. Enjoy yourselves.
The allies of Britain?
The Dutch during the lead up to the American Revolution were very much allies of Britain. Back in 1688 the British Parliament again toppled a king who had refused to obey them. This time there wasn’t a civil war- rather a coup.
The King, James II, fled, and Parliament establishes his daughter, Mary, as Queen alongside her husband, the Dutch born and raised William of Orange, now designated William III of England (that’s him above)
From this point onwards Britain and the Dutch became much closer.
Time passes and the crown passes to Anne, the last of the Stuart’s, and when she passes the crown goes to a German family, the House of Hannover, and Britain gets four kings in a row, all called George.
Throughout this time, the Netherlands is important for Britain- The Netherlands after all sits directly opposite the Thames and London. As had been seen the last time few times the two nations went to war- the Dutch could potentially sail straight up the Thames and attack the political heart of Britain very easily.
So Britain needed the Nertherlands compliant.
The Rise and decline of the Netherlands.
The Netherlands had once been one of Europe’s emerging superpowers- an influx of Protestant refugees from Hapsburg lands had given it a highly skilled work force; the Dutch East India Company (VOC) had become one of Europe’s most dynamic companies (including having exclusive trade deals with Japan) and things were going good.
But time had passed; the Dutch were no longer the feared force they once were and were now seen as junior partners in any kind of deal with Britain.
Or so the British thought.
Going into the era of the American war of independence, the Netherlands was run by the figure of the stadtholder, and the stadtholderian regime was firmly pro-British (it helped that the Stadtholder at the time, William V (above) was the grandson of George III).
Politics being what it was, the opposition to the government took a more French supporting position. But ultimately these things didn’t matter. The Netherlands had shown over the last few years that they were neutral.
They stayed out of wars.
This is why the once ferocious Dutch fleet was in a weakened state.
The Rebellion of the 13 colonies
When the rebellion started, the government of Britain decided to employ European mercenary forces to put down the uprising. They used German troops from Brunswick-Lüneburg and Hessian and sought to recall an auxiliary force that was in use by the Dutch at the time from Britain- the Scots Brigade.
The hope was these guys could supplement the meagreness of British forces in the region.
However, the colonial cause gained a lot of sympathy (in Britain as well as in the Netherlands) but in the Netherlands those who sympathised with the colonists found a champion in the form of a group of Dutch called The Patriots.
They thought what the colonists were doing was a great example of what they should do against William V (the stadholder) and a combination of sympathy for Rebellion, opposition to William V and the desire to remain neutral and trade with everyone meant that the Netherlands refused to lend the Scots Brigade and stayed out of it.
The Incident With The Flag
In November 1776 however the Dutch found themselves involved in the rebellion anyway due to a diplomatic incident that is often overlooked.
The Dutch colony of St. Eustatius in the Caribbean was owned by the Dutch West India Company and was well known for trading to all. Americans could come here and sell indigo and tobacco and buy tea, to smuggle back into the colonies contravening British mercantile regulations.
That November, the American warship Andrew Doria sailed into the harbour of the island. In accordance with the international rules of maritime etiquette, the captain, Robinson, lowered the new red and white striped flag of the continental congress and greeted the Dutch fort by firing a 13-gun salute.
The stockade overlooking the port, Fort Oranje, replied (under the direct orders of then then governor, Johannes de Graaff), with an 11-gun salute.
This was a formal recognition of the flag that had been lowered in respect. De Graaff had in effect recognized the rebellious American states in the name of the Dutch Republic.
The British lost the plot. Sure De Graaff has acted on his own and not with Dutch approval, but that did little to calm them. And while it was the French who first formally recognised the new American nation, it was the Dutch who first ever treated the colonies as a nation.
Over the next few years as well St. Eustatius became way more important to the colonists as it became where they could purchase military supplies for their armed insurrection from willing French and Dutch merchants.
De Graaf (below) kept his job.
The war escalates.
While the colonists faced an all or nothing struggle for survival, for Britain the rebellion was a minor matter. Until the French got involved in 1778. This escalated things. It meant that the battlefield was now no longer just 13 colonies.
They immediately tried to tap the Netherlands to come in on their side. It failed. The Dutch refused to be bullied- they would remain neutral. And would trade with all.
Money to be made from the French as well as the Americans...
The thing was France was not as strong as it had been. Their navy especially was weak compared to the Royal Navy and they needed to rebuild it back up. But the Royal Navy blockaded French ports and they could not get the specialist supplies they needed.
Enter the Dutch. Not only were they happy to supply the French with whatever they needed, they had an additional weapon. A loop hole in their many treaties with Britain meant that the exact goods the French needed (canvas, tar, ropes, basically ‘ships stores’) were allowed to be traded by the Dutch with anyone.
So they made money trading that with the French. Until the British went ‘wait... wut?’ And unilaterally closed the loophole. And thus could seize Dutch ships trading with the French.
This caused the Dutch people to kinda get seriously mad. The opposition demanded William V form convoys to protect Dutch ships. This was a HUGE escalation. Under maritime law a convoy could NOT be inspected by anyone else, as this would be seen as an act of war.
The stadholder managed to resist the move for a while but in 1779 he finally had to agree to the demands and the first Dutch convoy to escort goods from the Netherlands to France was formed under the command of rear-admiral Van Bylandt.
What followed was a disaster.
National humiliation and Russian Dreams
The convoy made its way down the English Channel where it was met by naval squadron of the Royal Navy under the command of one Commodore Fielding.
Fielding demanded the Dutch allow the British inspect the merchantmen they were escorting. Van Bylandt refused. The British opened fire. And then?
Van Bylandt struck his colours (surrendered). The entire convoy was taken into Portsmouth and the whole thing was an utterly humiliating moment for the Netherlands.
Furious, the Dutch sought to respond.
Meanwhile over in Russia, Tsarina Catherine the Great (above) has sought to make her nation neutral in the growing war about America. She formed the League of Armed Neutrality; an alliance of nations who were insisting on the right to trade with all sides in the conflict.
Denmark-Norway, Portugal, Sweden, the Ottoman Empire, Austria and Prussia all joined. The League of Armed Neutrality became one of those things more important on paper than in reality. The French and the American colonists all swore blind it was an example of the world standing up to the British, but all those nations combined still couldn’t match the naval power of the Royal Navy.
Still, on paper an attack on one was an attack on all, and since Britain gained a LOT (read most) of their naval supplies from Russia/the Baltic, they also had zero reason to ever mess with it.
The only reason it even became a thing- the Dutch wanted to join and indeed were going to join. So the British decided to prevent them from doing so and in December 1780 declared war on the Dutch.
Secret dealings
The British made it clear, however, the war with the Netherlands was NOT about them trading with the French but about their deals with the rebellious colonists.
The American privateer John Paul Jones had been given shelter by the Dutch in 1779; and American diplomat Henry Laurens (above) had been sent by Congress to the Netherlands to negotiate a treaty with them- the secret treaty negotiated by Dutch bankers and an American agent was used by the British, along with that whole flag saluting business, as the excuse to go to war.
What had started as 13 colonies rebelling against a tax cut, how now become a global conflict and the Dutch now found themselves alongside the French, the Spanish and a small Muslim nation in India called Mysore, all fighting over the American colonists!
The GLOBAL war of American independence had began.
The British quickly sought to contain the Dutch and the scale of operations against them erupted in four continents over the next two years.
Firstly, the British had to stop the Dutch fleet from joining up with the French. Thus the Royal Navy blockaded the Netherlands and the Dutch has no real ability to break it. This led to over 500 Dutch ships were taken out of service (300 locked up in ports and over 200 captured by the British, netting them millions in prizes).
With that done, the British focused on protecting the colonies MOST valuable to them. No, not the 13 American ones, but the cash cow colonies in the Caribbean. These generated more profit than the 13 colonies ever did and the Dutch presence in the region was to close for comfort.
In 1781 the British invaded, attacked and took the Dutch colonies of St. Eustatius, Saba, Saint Martin, Bernice, Essequibo and Demerara. And they confiscated and looted EVERYTHING that wasn’t nailed down.
St. Eustatius especially was flattened, and the loss of revenues was staggering. The Dutch didn’t lose all their colonies- Curaçao was considered too tough TO attack, and the French were later able to take Essequibo and Demerara back, but this was a serious loss for the Dutch.
There is a sting in the tale about the fall of St. Eustatius however... (see below)
Meanwhile the British went after the Dutch in Africa- where Dutch forts were stationed to provide safe cover for their ships. Four out of five Dutch forts were taken without much struggle (one, Fort Elmina, managed to hold out- basically the ONLY Dutch victory in the war) and the British swept the board there.
The British also went after them in Asia- the Dutch lost Trincomalee in Ceylon, and the fortress/trading post in Sumatra, Padang (again which netted the British a fortune- in this case half a million florins).
While French/Dutch and British forces waged war across the Indian Ocean, the Dutch East India Company and the British East India Company found themselves in armed conflict, with the EIC trouncing the VIC across Java.
All in all, the Dutch were utterly, roundly, defeated.
What they DID do, alongside France and Spain, and Mysore, was internationalise the conflict, forcing the British to focus across several continents and it could be argued that the Dutch while losing in the North Sea, forced the British to push the Royal Navy to breaking point, which allowed American privateers operate against a weakened foe and prevented the British from sending powerful naval assets to the North American waters.
The sting in the tale: the most important battle of the American War of Independence: the fall of St. Eustatius
Alright, there is a sting in the tale. And it’s a beast.
So there was a theory that came out during the war of independence that is worth treating as it kinda changes everything we think we know about how the Americans won.
The theory goes as follows:
In 1781 the war was far from over. The Americans were still fighting, but the British were not inclined to throw in the towel.
The rebellious Americans were still having issues with getting military equipment and their main source was arms runners breaking the British blockade, sailing down to St. Eustatius. The British had LONG wanted to close down the island port.
This was what the war with the Dutch allowed them do.
The operation was placed under the joint command of Admiral George Rodney (above) and General John Vaughn. They struck quickly and decisively. Their goal was to destroy the islands role as a hub for the rebellion, and to target the islands commercial interests and merchant especially.
In February 1781 they fell upon the island, making quick work of the defences. Admiral Rodney then systematically seized all goods he could find and destroyed many local merchants- especially the islands large Jewish community.
Rodney had a problem- when they captured the island, the goods on the island and in the ships at anchor, were vast. Around $3 million worth of goods in contemporary money (roughly US$56 million in today’s money). This was staggering.
Rodney and Vaughn immediately focused on making sure they catalogued the entire haul. They could expect a sizeable chunk of the proceedings (to be sent back to Britain) and obviously wanted to make sure they had a full record.
According to Rodney’s second in command, Rear-Admiral Samuel Hood (above) the time they spent doing this meant they neglected the rest of the Caribbean campaign. And this was important.
A French fleet under Admiral De Grasse was on its way to the French colony of Martinique and Hood felt that his forces combined with Rodney’s could have intercepted it. As it was not only was he unable to engage the French, he watched with horror as the French changed direction and headed north up the American coast.
Hood quickly went off in pursuit. Why was he alarmed at this?
While Rodney’s forces were engaged in the wholesale looting of St. Eustatius, General Cornwallis and his army of British regulars had been forced to retreat out of the Carolinas, to the small port of Yorktown, Virginia.
Cornwallis required resupply and reinforcement. Hood’s desperate demands for Rodney to supply his heavier ships was ignored as his commander sent his most powerful ships to escort the booty.
Rodney himself, citing ill health, set sail for England, leaving Hood with weaker forces. Hood set of north, and combined forces with Admiral Graves who was in New York, having failed to intercept a convoy from France to Boston. Both men knew De Grasse and his fleet (supplemented by other French forces) could cause problems for Cornwallis, and so set sail to prevent this.
The resulting campaign is known as the Battle of Chesapeake and while I could bore you with the practicalities of ship to ship communications, manoeuvring before battle, the state of the ships etc all we need know was the British and the French fought an inconclusive battle that ended with the French dominating Chesapeake’s bay, Cornwallis being cut off from the sea and the loyalists in New York being thrown into chaos.
It was, according to Hood, Rodney’s fault the British were unable bring enough forces to bear against the French. And it was Hood, who later in the time after Yorktown went on to capture the victorious French Admiral De Grasse, who claimed that it was Rodney’s actions in St. Eustatius that enabled Washington gain his victory at Yorktown.
(This debate went on for years back in Britain; Rodney survived because he had the right political connections and also helped defeat a French-Spanish invasion of Jamaica that took place after Yorktown). As the war dragged on for two more years so the incident became overlooked but it’s worth the mention).
Peace
Peace came in stages. With the utter defeat of the joint Spanish-French forces at the Battle of Gibraltar (which stands as the largest battle in the American war of independence) both Spain and France were able to use the American colonists victory as a face saving way to make peace.
They leapt at the chance to do so, leaving the Dutch having to suddenly negotiate a peace treaty with Britain on their own.
When the dust settled and lands were handed back, the Dutch formally became the second nation to establish ties and recognise the United States of America.
France, being France, took the ‘lions share’ of the glory in helping America but the Dutch, it could be argued, were much more useful allies.
Certainly the British at the time thought so.
Not only did they suffer more for their support of the American colonies, they were also the first country to help finance the new nation (given that France had been before and showed after, a total basket case economically).
This role as the nation who helped finance the new Republic only lasted a few years however. The much richer British, especially the financiers in the City of London, many of whom had been supportive of the rebellion, soon took over this role and went back to being the principle creditors of the United States.
But it doesn’t matter.
The Dutch has been there for the Americans.
The story is worth telling.
Lies, damn lies and arguments:
I must admit the sin of simplification. But barebones that is what went down.
My apologies to any Dutch readers/historians. This is extremely British/American focused. Also my apologies to any French readers... I am indeed very sorry you are French (Grins)
Some Americans don’t realise the sheer global extent of the war their rebellion kicked off; with fighting as far away as Indonesia, the African Coast, Ceylon, Europe, Southern India, and the Caribbean.
But it was a global campaign, and a savage one at that.
Other posts I’ve done about the era:
The Man who Accidentally Created America:
The story of how one Scottish banker caused the economic crisis that caused the American War of Independence:
https://imgur.com/gallery/qw0XY
The time Florida went to war with Georgia (an amazing tale of the era of British America):
https://imgur.com/gallery/GQY5Y8Y
A full list of my posts on various and sundry subjects:
https://imgur.com/gallery/GQY5Y8Y
Sources (web)
A FASCINATING source right here; how the Jewish population of the Dutch colonies were able to swing the war on behalf of the Revolution. It exposes Admiral Rodney as a full blown anti-Semite in his actions in St Eustatius.
http://jewishmag.com/80mag/usa3/usa3.htm
An interesting website exploring US-Dutch Relations around the time:
https://geheugen.delpher.nl/en/geheugen/pages/collectie/Atlantic+World/De+betrekkingen+tussen+Nederland+en+Amerika
Books:
Navies and Armies: the Anglo-Dutch relationship in War and Peace 1688-1988 edited by G. J. A. Raven and N. A. M. Rodger;
The Command of the Ocean : a Naval History of Britain, Volume 2, 1649–1815 by N. A. M. Rodger
Alittledistantshiningstar
It’s a long read but well worth it, thanks for another fantastic in-depth post. Illuminates some of the less well known facts. 1+ friend
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
N000dle
Crap. I'm Dutch and only finding out now we've helped establish the USA. We're sorry!
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Muunk
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
SmellySloth
This was such a cool read! I had no idea. I'm also definitely going to look up more about Mysore.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Yeah, little Muslim nation in India. Much overlooked.
LaoBeifong
Awesome post! ???????????
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Glad you enjoyed
DoughnutJimmy
Hmm.....might explain tihs... https://imgur.com/qFWGMw3
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Totally.
Gianttesticlemonster
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
splungedude
Graag gedaan jongens!
BellsTheorem
But it was a Prussian that made America fabulous!
Attaroo
Von Stabbin! :D
MickeyCallahan
Thank you, Dutch, for getting your ass kicked so hard and looted so thoroughly that we didn't have to.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
‘You... you were our punchbag?’ (Grins)
sturzenb5
I love history and I didn't know this. Thanks so much and long live the Dutch!
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
TheFunionKnight
It was James II that fled
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
It was. My typo as I went and confused my Stuart’s. Thank you and corrected.
TheFunionKnight
You don't want to be confusing your Stewart's you won't be able to tell your James the II from your James the VII
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Depends on which side of the border I’m stood on...
TheQuietHunter
The United States owes a lot to our European brothers and sisters.
TheQuietHunter
We had Dutch support, French support, Prussian military aid and officers, and a host of colonists from across Europe.
TheQuietHunter
Nearly every nation and tribe of Europe was in the colonies, and their commitment to each other was incredible.
TheQuietHunter
It is very much the case that we do still love Europe, and I hope that we will continue to be able to rely on each other.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Yep. Oh and don’t forget the contribution by Mysore. Indians man. Always turning up unexpectedly.
TheQuietHunter
Yes. Absolutely. Of course their was support from the Cherokee too. The human family really is beautiful.
Texassizedhardno
NEDERLAND STERK
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Indeed!
makesense
Dutch would have never gotten involved if the French hadn't. And once the British were aware, the Dutch were nervous to even speak to Adams.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
I am unsure. I think the Dutch were split between those who were scared of the British reaction... and those who didn’t give a damn.
dublet
Speaking as a Dutch person, we're like the Earth version of Ferengi. Peace is good for business, war is good for business.
AdamMitchell23
As someone who lives on St Eustatius, it's nice to see it acknowledged. The Fort is still here but now on the verge of falling into the sea.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
It’s a very cool place I’ve always wanted to visit. The closest I got was Nevis.
ShadeEmberi
should get the dutch in, they are good at fighting the sea
dancefoyobees
Sounds like something a Dutchman would say
Attaroo
It's also complete bullshit. France was far, far more instrumental.
dancefoyobees
This guy gets it
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Not Dutch. But hey- at least I’m not being called a stooge for the CIA/CCP this post so that’s cool
BroadFjord
Very interesting read. My perspective is changed. Thanks for sharing!
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Attaroo
If you take out 'they were the greatest allies and REAL heroes' its not bad history. But OP is on crack if he thinks they were more
Attaroo
influential than France. Even the last part of their contribution is how they made it possible for France to be the ones to actually win.
kakivara
I feel like this is just an example of how you can focus on any detail to make it seem major. Not that you're wrong, but I feel like
kakivara
Yorktown deserves more than a footnote in the story of the revolution.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Oh it isn’t a footnote at all. Just peripheral to the focus of this. I mean sure- what’s required is a huge epic tale showing the entire
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Tale, political/military/ economic etc but yanno. The post was long enough as it is.
crankyoldgeezer
I love the Dutch.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
So so many... they crazy cool
crankyoldgeezer
My 3 main reasons: driest sense of humor, their cutting edge engineering & best behaved airline passengers
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
A sense of humour so dry the Sahara seems wet in comparison.
crankyoldgeezer
When British humor seems like slapstick by comparison you know it’s dry.
Septicsh0ck
His anger makes sense now
v
thehumanoidsarecoming
Its an old joke that still gets used. The dutch were slave traders that started off the apartheid, but no one really associates it with em.
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thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Yep. Old wounds.
v
ThePanzerSchreck
Thanks dude, although I'm Dutch I was never thought any of this. Thanks for enlightening me it was a great read.
NotInLimboAnymore
Me neither, and I had historylessons in my last year of high school.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Thank you for your kind words. The history of the Netherlands always surprises me. You guys have some wild times.
ThePanzerSchreck
Yeah it keeps surprising me as well
boatymcboatfaceplant
One of my favorite ones is the raid on the Medway. Dutch troops entering Sheerness paid for their meals and drinks to make a point about 1/2
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Also highly amusing- many of the crew on those Dutch ships were Scots. They had a BALL!!!
boatymcboatfaceplant
being civilized, contrary to what happened when British troops ransacked Terschelling. Way to make a point :) 2/2
Veraatje01
I always remind myself of the tulip mania in the 17th century. We're far from perfect, but lord is our history interesting.
Muunk
After all this, I'm glad we've made amends with the Brits, glad that the Frenchies & Dutch helped us, BUT IM REALLY ANGRY AT THOSE CANADIANS
F234K
Fuck your white House - Canada
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
So sadly that wasn't actually the Canadians. We have accounts of where the British battalions were during that, the Canadian contingent was>
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
nowhere close. They did play a vital part in that fight though, so they've got that going for them.
twentysevendifferentthings
United Empire Loyalists!
Jopler420
hahaha, as a canadian... those damn canucks! pretty sure we haven't lost a war with the US yet tho ?
FallenLion
sorry about that. been to canada many times and looking to ehhh become an expat. love the beauty of the place.
PianoMan2112
Same, but housing prices are insane.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Never underestimate the power of Moose Fuckers! (Grins and flees from his Canadian friends)
Jopler420
hahahahaha
Hurro
Just remember we are the reason the White House is white. It was brown before we burnt it... (or so I've heard)
LordNergal
Could you do us a favor and burn it again? It's got this infestation and we can't seem to be rid of it...
OneFinalEffortIsAllThatRemains
Do you really want to set us off the hook again? Ask the Germans what happens when the trench’s start apologizing
slotheroll
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Blame Canada! It’s a good default... (Grins)
imminentloudness
screw you buddy!
welluhwhatdoyouwantmetosay
Thomas Edison's family were on the wrong side, and fled to Canada. Later, they were on the wrong side of the rebellions, and fled to the US.
Oscill8s
I'm an American with a lot of Dutch ancestry, and I knew about none of this. Thank you for sharing! This was extremely well written :3
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
So glad you enjoyed it :)
hollanderpolder
Y’re welcome. Dear Americans, in our hearts forever. June 6 ‘44
AllTheBestNamesWereTaken
Happy to Help... Or at least my Grandpa was...
Promethianfire
Thank you. My great uncle (much closer to me than any grandparent) was there.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
deputycartman
1/2 I really wish we would teach the actual history behind the independence to elementary school students. "RA RA USA USA GO US oh the...
deputycartman
2/3 French helped us a bit whatever USA USA!" really sucks and does a disservice to the very complicated nature of what happened. Also...
deputycartman
3/3 mentioning that we kept pushing west, taking land, getting into wars, and that was expensive as fuck would be fair..."
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
To give some credit... when we are younger, telling us the complex of geopolitical realities in the 18th century is never gonna work. :)
jup83
And a couple of years later the dutchies were occupied by the french under Napoleon. Game over.
yamatto
of course, because any time you side with france you are clearly in the wrong and the universe will punish you via irony,
Grimmy32
Who ironically likely wouldn't of rose to power if the US could of paid back it's debt to the French.
jup83
Bit you can still hear them all over the world, even if you don't want to.
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
DependingOnTheStreet
A scrum engagement on imgur? Love it! Only made better by the fact that it looks like it’s an English loose head that’s getting eaten alive
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Rugby: the 100 years war is alive and well...
themunneyshot
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OneOfManyBerrys
Just a couple of slave powered nations looking out for each other
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
(Thinks) Technically correct.
khazorath
There are factual errors in this, there were 4 Georges in a row, George V was after William IV, Victoria and Edward VII. 1/5
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
This is true. I will correct. The House of Hanover just come across as a wall of sausage eating Germans and my brain switches off...
khazorath
James II the last Catholic King of England & Scotland (Great Britain formed in 1707) abused the Royal Perogative to circumvent the law 2/5
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
I corrected that. And you forgot his main crime- he annoyed Parliament.
khazorath
This created the perception that James II was planning on restoring Catholicism 3/6
khazorath
The last time it was attempted it was under Mary I, aka Bloody Mary because of her frequent burnings of Protestants 4/6
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Er... settle down son. All the Tudors were bloodythirty and religion was the excuse several used- their main motivation was establishing
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
Control. Which is why Henry VII, Henry VIII, Edward, Mary and Elizabeth all maintained a ruthlessness born of bloody pragmatism.
khazorath
Technically there was no coup, there was a fear of a coup and rebellion and James fled 5/7
khazorath
The English Parliament used this to show that he had in effect abdicated 6/7
thefeckamisigningupwithfacebook
It was a coup. A nice and legal one, backed by Parliament, but it really was. Luckily for those involved? They won.