merlinJumper
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https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jul/27/why-we-need-a-right-not-to-be-manipulated
Jul 28, 2025 2:15 AM
merlinJumper
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https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jul/27/why-we-need-a-right-not-to-be-manipulated
MidnaDS
I just found out about recency bias, and I'd have to say that out of all the biases, it's my favourite.
Allrighty
Imagine an economy built around fulfilling people's needs instead of lining capitalists' pockets
Bonesy84
What’s the opposite of a right?
Because I think people shouldn’t have the right to be to be ignorant and believe false things.
I know it gets messy on how to do this. But even if someone mostly keeps these beliefs to themselves it still means they vote like that. You can’t force someone to be educated though…well you can but that’s scary in its own way where only one narrative is accepted. I dunno. Fuck Fox News and such for spreading ignorance
SlippeyPetey2000
Saving this to read it later
clonedeeznuts
We are in a time where the rich rob the poor out in the open and the poor gets in trouble for it
RealityInflicted
The sad fact is that "manipulation" is at the very core of the modern democratic system. All politics is opinion work or propaganda. The swaying of the masses, in ever which way or by anyone is manipulation. And I don't really see any way of that ever changing unless the system itself is changed. Unfortunately that change cannot happen within the current system or ideologies – the cause of, and the result of, that change is wittgensteinian: something that we do not know and thus can't talk about
wannasee
The right has always been manipulated in thinking their superiority comes from being bootstrappers, when they are nepotistic, bootlickers
NotThePoint
How you fight back is by not blindly going along with it. Stop merely doing what feels good and start thinking about the consequences of your actions. Stop buying/using "smart" devices and social media platforms exist to spy on you for the express purpose of manipulating you. Your own choices are your best form of protection but you won't take responsibility for them because you want your cake and to eat it too.
Bigblackdick69
So what you're saying is that corporations play with our emotions just like that toxic ex we all have? https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1aGVnNHhybHpoNHhkZnRzMTdoMXB1dW51YjRuY2tzYzJpb3duZDV3YyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/26gR1p0Ip6YbzcwFy/200w.webp
the3th
a decent education is a good start to being less prone to manipulation via advertising, but then again it also makes you less prone to political manipulation as well. i wonder why our education systems, at least here in the USA, have been under attack for a while? (i don't actually wonder.)
TheAnswerWasAlwaysMoreLube
They fear academic freedom because it creates a fact-based alternative to their official narrative.
reichstein
Saying "in its worst forms, manipulation is theft" is missing the actual worst of it by a catastrophically wide margin. I'd argue that convincing large swaths of the public to believe irrational bigoted lies and anti scientific nonsense is FAR worse than simple theft, and is extremely dangerous to pretty much our entire planet.
fastlaserjockey
This is an extremely good example of one of those things that's good in theory, but essentially impossible to implement without inadvertently enabling either worse fascism than you were trying to avoid or massive corruption and graft. I'd put poll tests and good parenting in the same basket.
CrimeThinker
Better education plays a huge role, just teach people mind control, how it's used in capitalism, and how to practice it on oneself.
OperatorWay
Elizabeth Holmes (of Theranos) was convicted of defrauding investors but she was acquitted of defrauding patients.
Apparently, fooling around with rich people's money was a crime, but fooling around with people's lives was not.
merlinJumper
Ya, try to manipulate a bank or a supermarket, or any other institution, while being poor
lightfoot2
Libertarians believed that the purpose of Govt is to protect against force and fraud. We have a Govt now that promotes force and fraud. Sigh......
KalypsoKirin
Real Libertarians are the Zapatistas in Mexico. Americans coopted the ideology to prevent it's spread. The purpose of American libertarians is to make less insane Libertarians look bad.
doctorId
Libertarians are just conservatives that don't want to get in trouble for smoking weed
ImgurIsOutOfUsernames
Libertarians are ignorant house cats. Bringing them up in a conversation serves only to completely undermine whatever point you are trying to make.
lightfoot2
Yeah it's sad. I liked the concepts in the late 1980's, but since then they have been taken over by so many classes of wingnuts that it's pretty much hopeless. Kind of like the RP today, but I will concede that the modern concept is more like a combo of Mad Max and NAMBLA than the "gov exists to protect citizens from force and fraud" cadre.
CrumpetsWithHoneyAreCrumpetsWithBeeVomit
I don't know that I've EVER heard that Libertarians want the Govt to protect against FRAUD! Wouldn't that require, now think for a minute, something like a Department of Fraud which is MORE GOVERNMENT and the very antitheses of Libertarianism? Would not the L response to fraud be "Work it out yourself/the MARKET will work out it"? Asking for a friend.
lightfoot2
Absolutely. Fraud is an imbalance of power being taken advantage of and thus wrong from a (admittedly 1980's) Lib point of view. All contracts should be clear, understood, and such. If you don't have this, then you basically are arguing for "might makes right" which is not a government, but is a Lord Humongous style wasteland thing. Which doesn't last long.
lightfoot2
Contrast my comment below to the current party in power which appears to PROMOTE force and fraud against their citizens. That's pretty much the opposite and is nothing more than a Govt run by looters, grifters, and child molesters. Which.... yeah that is what we got now....
Asadsadsadclown
Libertarians also have trouble with the age of consent. It's best not to quote them when talking about what people should and shouldn't do.
lightfoot2
That bird don't hunt dude. If we look at it from the force/fraud angle obviously a kid is at a massive power disadvantage to an adult through no fault of their own. Thus it would be total and clear force/fraud to bang a kid and you're in pedo jail. Only way around this is to claim kids are "property" not people at which point you're arguing with slavers, and a straw man is born. So.... it's best not to try to paint things with a big ole brush out of ignorance. Hope this helps.
doctorId
Yeah, if we just explain to pedophiles who want to lower age of consent the logical reasons why that's wrong, I'm sure they'll turn right around on it.
lightfoot2
No you put them in jail or brand pedo-fucker on their foreheads. No one I knows is interested in lowering the age of consent.....
Asadsadsadclown
https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-candidate-proposes-referendum-age-consent-1749981 Huh...">">https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-candidate-proposes-referendum-age-consent-1749981 Huh.... https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/03/michigan-consent-law-tom-bagwell/85364338/ hmmmmm....
Samja192
They'd have to be real clear about their wording...literally all advertising is an attempt at manipulation
LaffertyDanie1
Came down to say "selling" anything is manipulation, any negotiation comes down to manipulation at some level, where and how to draw the line especially on a legal basis is no simple question
Mendalburg
We need a right to not be advertised at.
Goldensands
So, here's a thought, maybe fking regulate it? If it's all manipulation. Maybe we could live in a world where filth isn't something we normalise and apologies for? Please?
Samja192
Advertising is regulated...
Badprenup
In the US it's barely regulated. Basically boils down to "Don't outright lie about the product, and if you do lie then put a tiny, easily missed disclaimer that says you are lying"
Goldensands
This says a lot about you dude. The current state of advertisement is your idea of regulated. Sure. I shudder to think what unregulated advertisement would be to you, should We start paying to get advertised to?
Samja192
Lol just because it could use more regulation doesn't change the fact that it is regulated.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Almost like all advertising, as it currently exists, is a huge problem that needs fixing.
doctorId
Watching clips from Mad Men on youtube is comedy gold cause you can be playing a scene where people are talking about what a genius Don is for being so good at the subtle art of advertising, only to have the scene interrupted by a midroll ad made up of nonsensical AI slop.
Samja192
Not arguing with that point. I'm just saying they need to really clearly define at what point "good advertising" becomes "illegal manipulation", and explicitly states what constitutes illegal manipulation. So often laws like this use wording that's too vague and can be interpreted in many different ways or ignored based on that vagueness
TheDoctorCrankenstein
I mean, laws are intentionally written with vaguery to allow for interpretation by the judge to make allowances for individual circumstances. That's kinda a feature of the system, not a bug. It's just an intrinsic flaw of the system that what makes it fair is also what allows it to be corrupted.
Personally, there is no such thing as "good advertising". We don't need companies shoving their products down our throats at every waking minute with intrusive ads.
Samja192
I don't disagree with you that the way ads are served these days is... Pervasive. And needs to be reigned in. But at the same time, in many ways it's a necessary evil. We wouldn't have Imgur for example if they couldn't serve ads. Or we'd have to pay a subscription which I personally wouldn't.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Or we could endeavor to change our economic system? That's always an option too instead of simply settling for "necessary evils" and allowing this bullshit to persist.