minPD0309
139596
5439
71
Why not both
Oct 31, 2019 7:37 AM
minPD0309
139596
5439
71
Iamatinylittlebanana
AgSpiral
The company is hiring for their bottom positions, I.e, entry-level. They are not placing supervisors, managers, execs, etc.
Valtrith
Uggghhhhhhhhh that shit sucks
Zigor22
Entry level means entry level for that company, not entry level across all jobs.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
Or they want to look like they're hiring for advertisement and tax purposes but make the job so unobtainable and unwanted no one gets hired.
MamaJeaux
Sometimes, a college degree counts as 3-5 years experience. As for “entry level”, gotta start somewhere.
NellyWelly
So how about Para-professional? I mean... we really don't have to use one word for everything.... there are lots of words.
flyingskejaquita
It also means they they don’t have a culture of growth.
Pretzelsfromthemall
Counterargument: A pot of top companies promote from within, and have high hiring standards. So an "entry-level" role is a good oppty.
Phantomhives
I’ve been applying to jobs for the past month and that’s exactly what they’re doing and SUPER frustrating
Smidge204
Why not both?
Gravitysucks
Why not Zoidberg
Minnakht
If your brain is being eaten by worms it may not have the capacity to think of ways to take advantage of people.
Iresemblethatremark
Or maybe that's all the capacity it'll have left?
FrankTheThunderbird
doodoobailey
HR managers....
v
Apollo31
Dealing with this right now. Have also seen 8 yrs experience required for an entry level.
astroarcher13
apply anyway and see what happens. It's like over priced apartments. to weed out low economic class peoples & credit checks. to limit risk
IFoundOutThatYouCanHave63CharactersOntheUsernameHowCoolIsThat
Entry Level Position : Masters Degree of relevant field, minimum 3+ years.
electronicbovine
Lol, my friend just applied to an internship for $10/hour and they're asking why he's applying without a bachelor's degree.
cryptumsaga
What field? For engineers internships are always for students working towards bachelors.
BatLadyRielle
DragoWhooves
bet it's an unpaid internship as well
Pixel8yt
There's also the this is an entry into our company or entry into the track at our company. I think each company uses entry different
NellyWelly
So refer to it as something else. "Entry level" means entry into this feild. How about "para-professional"? Or "first time hire"?
pancakmix
Dear person who has never applied for a job. That is the ideal candidate, they know they will never find that.
sergeantapone
Thank goodness we have the freedom to choose whether or not to apply for a particular job!
Osyriss
BigTiddyGothLover
uppishduck
Someone turn it into an upvote!
Numb3rThr33
Richardson!
v
WTT24
Please remind me what this is from. I can't remember, but I remember laughing at this! Hot Rod?
WatchWell
Yarp
Dyslexicbirch
It's (A) most are assholes trying to save money
GTR16
Or the hiring manager has someone internally they want and HR is forcing it to be posted anyway..
stevema
you don't really promote people to entry level positions
GTR16
I hired a sr accountant for a trading analyst position on my trading desk.. it is the entry level for my group..
nero4ty2
warehouse worker to office, server to manager, there are plenty of position considered "entry level" that are a promotion
astroarcher13
how is a manager an entry level position??? wouldn't manager/ supervisor level be required for the same level? how can a noob be manager?
nero4ty2
that one is pretty specific to restaurants, many companies hire straight out of college for managers, no exp needed, manager is considered >
glitterwank
Are there zero fair paying jobs out there for you guys?
secretoaster
Jobs with no benefits and no future pay "fair"
celerity65
Worked w/ a manager who did this. I asked him why and he said “well, they probably did an internship in college (that’s 3-6 months, max) 1/
U1849KA
But, one would not read, "professional experience" and think "college internship," usually, surely?
celerity65
and they’re going to exaggerate their experience anyway so I just increased it.” It was such a dumb plan and he was confused why no 2/
celerity65
Recent college grads were applying to it. ♂️
FlexGunship
Incorrect friend. Hiring manager here: if you're going to join my team as an engineer I expect you to have several years of experience 1/?
FlexGunship
"But how? I just graduated!" Okay, but did you have an internship (paid or unpaid?) or a work study program? What about projects? 2/?
FlexGunship
What about a related job in-between years of college? Maybe you serviced toasters and it gave you great hands-on experience! 3/??
FlexGunship
When I ask for a couple years of experience, I want to know that you know how to show up on time... You have experience working 4/?
FlexGunship
as part of a team of diverse people. And that you know how to interact with your boss. Further, it's a challenge to YOU to explain why 5/?
FlexGunship
I should pick you over other candidates. "I have extensive gardening experience"... Fine, how does that apply here? If you have an 6/??
srslysterling
Entry Level can just mean "not management". It doesn't have to be someone's first job
DigitalGuru42
But it does mean no experience. Education into the field yes, but no experience necessary. "Entry level" means into the field.
mangogangsta
Well that some shitty word smithing if i do say so meself
Dom1716
That’s what I see all day for our engineering roles. They need a new term imo, but 99% of the time it means not a lead or managing.
kk4c
Exactly, my company considers E1 and E2 entry level. Takes 7 years to be an “experienced” E3
RNeao
Apply anyways, fuck it
Krausladen
waste of resume paper
nero4ty2
paper?
ButtTrumpett
Don’t kill me but, internships, summer jobs for minimum wage, volunteer work, freelancing... I had three years experience when I graduated
cancerriddenlung
The problem is employers who don't consider school experience as experience...at all.
ButtTrumpett
I worked full time for 3 of the 4 years in college at two seperate as firms. Did freelance the other 1, won awards in high school for FBLA
ButtTrumpett
At the state and national level. Got a job 11 days after graduation. Gotta hustle school isn’t what gets you jobs, you gotta do it
cancerriddenlung
So here is my problem...why go to school if it doesn't get you a job? What you did is not something I am opposed to...do what you did and
cancerriddenlung
get a very good to great job out of school. But...I think if someone got mostly A's in college...pursuiing a useful degree...they should get
MantisTobogganPilotMD
i haven't been unemployed since the week I turned 14 years old, & put myself through uni. companies want people who know how to work
cancerriddenlung
That doesn't make you smart though. You can work hard as fuck to open a door and eventually succeed...but you're a chump if you do it by
cancerriddenlung
pulling on a door you were supposed to push.
ChrisMorray
I'm with you there. I would understand 1 year of experience required, but that's because I got that during my studies.
gprogri
They're trying to find the best candidate. The reality is they will most likely hire someone with a lot less experience. Always apply.
SwampWampa
Lots of company's look for someone with co-ops or internships but they don't count that as real experience for salary until after grad.
HootSloot
At my company 1 summer of internship within counts as 1 year experience.
StarSpangledAwesome
You lucky bastard... I'm happy for you though!
ishkaga
I was told my 3 years of co-op are completely meaningless by an employer.
SwampWampa
Same! When I accepted a co-op the hiring manager told me they treat you as associate level and you will have the same workload as a new 1/2
ishkaga
I was told "since you had an ulterior motive (school credits) we don't count it as work experience". As if people go to work in the first
ishkaga
Place out of the goodness of their hearts instead of to earn a paycheque. I was a full time employee in every way but payment.
SwampWampa
Employee. Once I was graduating they said that co-op in the same group as the job wasn't the same. Fortune 500 company (in the top 80)
cancerriddenlung
I hope you told them to shove their mickey mouse logic far up their ass.
ChrisKnauf
You know they add those as natural barriers to discourage the many from applying yes?
alf666
You say that, but I have received emails within 5 fucking minutes of applying for a job that I met all of the requirements of, 1/2
alf666
except for meeting the 3-5 years of job experience. "Dear applicant, we are pursuing other choices for this position, blah blah blah." 2/3
alf666
A person didn't even fucking look at my resume or application, the fucking job application system 3/4
alf666
insta-rejected me for not checking a single box on their checklist.
GoblinOfPoliticalSuccubus
You sound like a cunt. They dodged a bullet imo.
alf666
No, I'm frustrated after 4 months of unemployment after taking classes to brush up on the exact skills that these jobs need.
ChrisKnauf
I work in HR, what career path/education do you have?
alf666
I just finished a class in Data Analytics. I'm looking for a position as a Software Developer/Engineer, using C#/Java/Python/SQL/Javascript.
alf666
I also have a Bachelor's in Computer Science from a 4-year university. Currently in the Midwest USA. Not ready to move at this time though.
WaitingForCoffee
3-5 years experience in software that was released in April
pyronyzen
Swift?
EuclidianCoitus
Easy, those people have no idea about the actual programming language so just say you have experience and they won't know the difference
Sylventhe
Falkh12
next year
Myrectumhousesasmallindonesianfamily
I saw a posting around 2015 that wanted 20 years of Python 3 experience... Python 3.0 was released in 2008
WaitingForCoffee
Wait... 20 years?
HeadFullOfEmpty
Its because the people that write the ad have no fucking idea and havent asked the hiring manager the right questions.
FcukNoodleBeast
A friend once called a company out on this at his interview. He said all that happened is there was a stony silence and he wasn’t asked back
MermaidBiologist
I respect him for calling out BS
nicholasagream
I’d call it successful
MikeTran
When Swift was new some company wanted someone with 3 or 4 years experience
derpdevguy
Maybe they specifically asked for Chris Lattner? At least he would’ve been applicable ??
yoshtan4
I remember he called out a posting that was asking for 10 year when he had started work on it 8 years prior.
tinyCabbage
It's because it's hr that's hiring, not the dev team themselves, hr ask them a bunch of? And made the job description on what they thought
ElPietroLoco
I once saw "HTML5 or higher"
Izgood
They were talking about drugs
StarkRG
Future-proofing the ad.
ButtTrumpett
Html5 is just like canvas and a few accessibility tags that are rarely used except in large budget projects to skirt ADA. Prove me wrong
myUsernameWasAlreadyTakenAndIHaveAcceptedMyFate
Yea real projects use atleast HTML8
WaitingForCoffee
It's like the discussions earlier this year when GOP lawmakers were trying to get 6G in the US
StarkRG
6G? Damnit, let's go for 7G!
NeverSplitTheParty
Jeez, going all the way to 7G without even unlocking G^2. I expected more, America.
CantEvenLurkRight
How do you expect them to have G^2 if they can't even find the first one?
OmenJones
"You are have worms eat your brain." Listen, this is not how you make a case for higher pay.
electronicbovine
Do you have worms eat your brain?
evilcarp
You pick the fattest richest person in management and eat them. Then you ask for a raise. No raise and you repeat.
PteradactylStevens
They put that there to scare away the unconfident. If it’s an entry level job just apply, if you meet all the other prerequisites.
SteveNotSteve
Yes. Strong applicants figure out where they want to work and apply there. Weak applicants whine about job requirements on social media.
NellyWelly
That's stupid. Confidence is no measurement or a workers talent. Often it just means arrogance.
cancerriddenlung
It's easy to be arrogant when one remains ignorant.
SteveNotSteve
No one wants to work with weak, insecure people. Confidence is important.
NellyWelly
I know some less than confident people who are amazing at their jobs. They get by on talent and have no need for fluff.
Zombraina
People also don't want to work with cocky assholes either but they've got confidence so it's okay right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
PteradactylStevens
If they call you for an interview you meet the requirements, the interview is to see if they like you.
Asikar
Mostly things like this mean that the company isn't really looking to hire someone. They are probably promoting someone else(1/2)
TheVermonster
They might also be just collecting resumes. My wife's company has made positions for people that were "too experienced".
Xavieous
I've hired myself, and I've hired others. When hiring myself, I put a description exactly for me, but have to let it sit for a bit before
Xavieous
I got 'hired'. When hiring others, we put 'must haves' like bachelor's degrees, healthcare experience. Then put the preferred areas like
Xavieous
3-5 years of experience in the field since it is a complex job even though it is technically entry level and takes 6 months to train a newb.
Jemolk
If it is a more complex job than an average entry level job, then it should pay higher than average entry level salary.
MacClay
Sometimes they do that as a way to lie about the pay. "You don't have 5 years experience? We'll still hire you, but for $8k less" etc.
BronzeLeaguePro
Or they want H1B visas. Why hire Americans when an Indian can be abused more for lower wages?
xj4low
Doesn't matter. After entering your work history and uploading your resume, you get to take their 1+ hr BS online test and never hear back.
dustpuma1
What I recommend doing. If there is no direct contact for you to call the company and ask for the hiring manager. If they don't know ask for
dustpuma1
HR and they can get you the information or atleast send a message with your info to the hiring manager. Helps more and shows initiative.
freakdiablo
That may actually be it. I switched departments a few years back. My new manager had to file a hiring request with HR, then moved me 1/2
freakdiablo
in to the position. Wouldn't surprise me if that request made it to the company career site at some point. 2/2
stevema
you don't really promote people to "entry level" positions
CheekiBreekiOverlord
you're promoted to customer
Psymon100
Maybe interns, or non-professional to professional post a particular education
boatymcboatfaceplant
You do, if it's a vastly different area. Example: an operator moving into an entry level lab assistant position. Still an internal step up.
Contracepted
No you promote them *from* entry level positions. In theory.
gablestout
It's a headcount/budget thing. HR can change the role at "hiring", but you can assume if you see a listing like this they will hire internal
BhawbTheMagnificent
They aren't. It is only listed entry level because that will keep them from getting qualified applicants for a job they've already filled.
Nightcaste
It's not an entry level position if it requires experience.
ministryofpeace
no, but few people with the experience will go for the advertised band, then they can say no candidates met the selection criteria
Asikar
Hireing the intern?
HootSloot
Intern with 3-5 years experience?
stevema
that's more "Hiring" rather than "Promoting" though, more akin to freelancer moving on staff rather than staff moving up
godskook
Sure, but that's purely a semantic quibble.
Asikar
that they already have on staff, but HR requires them to post all open jobs for outside hires.
mirrelle
I'm currently applying for my own job for similar reasons.
BelowAverage355
Also it's a very common form of corporate espionage. They fish for people that hate their job and milk them for info in the interview.
GentlemanBart
I had a job allocated to me, my manager had to interview at least 3 people internally...
iputnutinnutella
This fucking happened to me recently. What a let down.
lyralyon
Thank you! Came here to say that.
shathorei
Yes, but then it wouldn't be entry level
aVeryRabidDog
Nah, not all the time. My first job I had 0 experience for, applied anyway when req. was 2-5 years in the field, got the job anyway.
aVeryRabidDog
2-5 yrs exp. in website coding, java, html, etc... The job was literally to copy and paste text into a wordpress site.
Raz5772
This. I was coming here to say this. Thanks for saving me time :)
mississippilessly318
I hate this because it wastes job seekers’ time
GTR16
Yes! I totally agree as I have had to do similar things when hiring internally.
DaveTheScientist
I applied for a job like that yesterday. Specially tailored to me, but had to be publicly posted.
Rulweylan
That's how I got my current job.
kingkongkeom
Yep, just add that one requirement that only fits the one you want to hire...done all the time
WhereIsWillByers
This. It's amazing how people just immediately bitch about things without actually thinking about them.
jajk0
Found the HR person.
WhereIsWillByers
Oil and gas, but close!
AmachiHitsugi
You can't blame them. They're trying to find jobs. It's frustrating to see that for a job seeker.
WhereIsWillByers
I understand it's frustrating, but it's as simple as they have to.
Atramors671
Honestly, what's amazing is your response. I know that it's a legal requirement, but it really shouldn't be. It not only wastes the 1/
Atramors671
Job seekers time, but also HRs and the hiring managers time. /2
WhereIsWillByers
Well, you just said it; it's a legal requirement. Blame the gov not the company.
iputnutinnutella
They waste everyone's time like that. Making plans for employment when they just want someone from inside.
WhereIsWillByers
Because it's legally required..
iputnutinnutella
Yeah I get that, it still feels shitty.
otiumCatulli
I think this is a legal requirement sometimes, eg if they want to keep someone on a visa, they have to prove they can't hire a citizen
igoslow
this is exactly what i’ve seen
arkemiffo
Afaik, it's also usual to post these publicly in magazines no one looking for that job would ever think of reading.
otiumCatulli
Another legal reason is that it restricts nepotism if you publish an ad which anyone can apply for, rather than hidden word of mouth jobs
Iresemblethatremark
In theory, anyway.
barnwolf
Probably works sometimes. Where they just get someone else applying who is just really good.
otiumCatulli
Yeah, and it's expensive to advertise a job actually, it's why small businesses don't do it a lot, they take what who they can.