ATorsoOnATrampoline
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Feb 19, 2019 7:28 PM
ATorsoOnATrampoline
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etsahoTaker
The bible stands better against textual criticism than any other ancient document and even Shakespeare's work, its undisputed, research it
deepman
That is actually not true. The old testament is kept the same as it was written the first time. No changes even in one character.
IWannaShowYouThis
This is blatantly false at multiple points.
IWannaShowYouThis
First he's misrepresenting soooo much, then later he conflates a couple things, but it's all misrepresentation. Try Daniel B Wallace.
Poopaloupe
except that's wrong. There are websites that track all the different translations and shit like that.
Munchman347
How is it wrong? Was it never edited? Never translated, never had parts (Gnostics) removed or altered? 'Tracking' is not 'validation'...
IFkWthmysckson
I didn't know he had a degree in Christian studies, or theology.
C141Clay
WilliamBologna
I'm shocked that a drug-addled dickbag comedian got this serious scholarly topic wrong.
whatwhatwhonow
A comedian isn't 100% factually accurate?! Holy FUCKING shit, someone get the goddamn president on the phone, this guy just cracked the case
clownfarts
I loved David Cross in Mr. Show but his stand up is too fucking preachy and full of moral grandstanding. Its lame. He ain't shit without Bob
SuperBlues64
David Cross has no idea what he is talking about. In this instance anyway.
whatwhatwhonow
A comedian isn't 100% factually accurate?! Holy FUCKING shit, someone get the goddamn president on the phone, this guy just cracked the case
SuperBlues64
“It wasn’t easy Mr. President, but I spotted his straw manning from a few fields away!”
Gantzz321
another Christian FAKE NEWS claim,
v
pianoNoodleTraveler
Not all were dictations of oral stories. The letters of Paul were him giving the audience guidance, although examples given were in the past
madjackwastaken
Even w/ Paul theres parts with him seemingly inventing words that we're still not sure the meaning off and have had a range of translations
Doumdidoum
Exegesis specialists are not even sure Paul wrote most of the epistles.
flavivsaetivs
Yeah most historians agree Paul only wrote like, maybe 3 of them or something. Been a while since I've read up on the topic.
doubtingdisciple
7 with consensus of genuine Paul. 2 are maybe. 4 are most likely not.
flavivsaetivs
Thanks
w1k2
Which ones are which?
doubtingdisciple
7 - Rom. 1&2 Cor. Phil. Gal. 1 Thess. Philemon; 2 - Col. 2 Thess. 4 - Eph. 1&2 Tim. Titus.
LuckyMan9
David Cross was a "fuck the system" youth who grew up to do voices in M&M commercials.
whatwhatwhonow
And?
LuckyMan9
And what?
Munchman347
And?...
BigBenThisHeresRubberDuck
By this logic, Julius Caesar, of whom there are only 12 historical manuscripts written hundreds of years later, may not have existed.
Menathradon87
Tesseract09
There's a little more than 12... There's also primary sources from the time, as well as his own writings.
tacticalattackterriers
Really? I would think that Ptolemaic Egyptian texts would also exist from that time, given the political relationship, even if Roman...
tacticalattackterriers
...records were purged.
deadlyvenom354
The bible the best selling piece of fiction ever written
AaronGodgers
*wobbles fedora and grabs neckbeard*
GGCrono
flyingmonsters
Wow I'm surprised imgur is arguing against this guy, normally it's always pro-atheist
pidgeonpower
David Cross brings a valid argument about the bible which I feel is true. It has been translated too many times to be 100% accurate.
iwenttousersubandalligotwasthislousyusername
It seems to be more pro-fact than pro-christian. They argue that evidence shows texts are close to the originals, not that they're factual
Menathradon87
And no Christian can prove it with certainty, that is the whole purpose behind the idea of faith. Faith must first acknowledge doubt
pronoun
Most atheist arguments on imgur consist of vague platitudes like "religion bad," which isn't really relevant to historical biblical origin.
Menathradon87
But the premise of this post is not to claim the existence or lack thereof of God, but rather discredit something that actually does have a
Menathradon87
decent amount of historical research (secular and non-secular) to support accuracy. In other words, most are arguing against the method.
DrR5
Hebrew isn’t a dead language..
chaseathompson
This is not merely a gross exaggeration, but is wholly inaccurate and filled with factual errors.
Munchman347
Eloquent description of any religious text...
whatwhatwhonow
A comedian isn't 100% factually accurate?! Holy FUCKING shit, someone get the goddamn president on the phone, this guy just cracked the case
chaseathompson
Wow. That's a lot of anger for one comment. You okay, bro?
whatwhatwhonow
A comedian made a joke that didn't have cited sources, you're damn right I'm angry!!!
SuperBlues64
This comment is a repost from the same post. Just Like the Q source of the gospels.
Crokkodrill8
Actually, ancient copies of the bible found among dead sea scrolls are surprisingly close to the same sections found in the modern bible.
Crokkodrill8
And some of these books are quite ancient. Scribes were extremely accurate
OrenNeuman
One thing though: I'm Israeli and modern Hebrew is so close to ancient biblical hebrew that i can read the bible without any help
FractalPrism
but can you figure out that its mythical bullshit or do you need a rational person to point out all the insanity?
OrenNeuman
Oh i'm 100% Atheist. But still love to read the bible for its literary and philosophical value
FractalPrism
there are some lies in that reply of yours.
OrenNeuman
What lies?
ConfuMeister
Maybe this post is about the King James Bible, the New Testament. It isn't talking about the Jewish lore.
arachnoides
No difference in this case. The translation back ibto to Hebrew is the final step as was the translation to the KJV.
Tesseract09
Where do you stand on the Septuagint? It sounds like Hebrew wasn't widely used historically amount news outside of Israel.
OrenNeuman
Septuagint is irrelevant to me, I'm a native speaker of Hebrew, not of ancient greek!
arachnoides
Yes it was translated back into Hebrew recently.
OrenNeuman
Indeed, the New Testament was translated to hebrew, and i very much enjoy the original 1877 translation by Franz Delitzsch.
Captainplanetmotherfucker
What I find interesting is that most of the Chritian bible was written for Judaism (The old testement).
pronoun
Well, Christians think of the Old Testament as more of a moral backstory to the New Testament, which is the main part they focus on.
GeorgePotompkin
I find it interesting that you find that interesting.
Captainplanetmotherfucker
I find interesting that you find interesting that I find it interesting.
GeorgePotompkin
Interesting
v
greencookiemonster
Judiasm == Christianity... the only differing factor is that Judiasm wait for the Messiah, wheras Christianity believes the Messiah is Jesus
FourtytwosQuestion
Not touching this one, no matter what you say, you may offend someone in a way their butt might hurt for centuries ^^
pronoun
No one is worried about offending Christians. It's one of the few identities that's socially acceptable to criticize.
TakWriterOfWorlds
Wow, even saying “not touching this” got you downvoted.
innagaddavidababy
I think the idea is that an omnipotent God is in control of the entire process so the resulting word is as He wills it to be.
SatchMas
GOD WILLS IT!!
Munchman347
Childhood cancer, war, genocide, plagues, famine, He must love the hell out of us...
efemral
Yes, kind of like when I did my high school art project. Random splashes of paint followed by long essays explaining what it all meant.
OuroborosX
Lol.
ragekritz
convenient
Lagomorph3447
Clean up on aisle Earth. Nonbeliever heads exploding, bring a mop.
digdoug78
Religion is bullshit.
mabbo
But that gives the Church free reign to write literally anything they want and say "if God didn't want this, he'd have prevented this!".
WhyCantIHaveADog
Exactly. Isn’t that what papal epistles are?
VultureTX
well that is why muslims claim the Quran is divine and unchangeable .
The701
Kind of like time travel: When you write in things like "infinite power/knowledge/ability," you usually create plot holes. Really big ones.
whatwhatwhonow
Time travel has no plot holes so long as you make closed loops.
The701
It's hard for us to do that in a story; opening up the Pandora's Box of time travel would make many, many more things possible, so the use
The701
of time travel needs to be given extreme limits in the story before plot holes start opening up everywhere.
celestedrake
Yeah, but so is everything. Thus, nothing is particularly special in that regards. And maybe God is okay with conflicting beliefs or (1)
celestedrake
whatever. It would probably be more entertaining.(2)
Menathradon87
O don't think it is for entertainment, rather to allow for legitimate choices.
celestedrake
My own philosophy is based a bit off imagining God as a GM who wants players to have fun, but characters can die, and they can do what (1)
celestedrake
they want to other PC's. It explain the bad things happening to good people, and possible motives for God creating an imperfect world. (2)
Menathradon87
While I can understand the view, Christian (Catholic) Canon would argue God created a perfect world, but the perfection came at a price.
whatwhatwhonow
Then that God is a monster.
Ardranor
Except humans have free will and are not controlled directly by God (unless you're a calvinist)*. At any point anyone with a bit of self
mattituuude
Conveniently, one that is omnipotent could foresee this scenario and put together a visible organization to preserve it for millennia.
Ardranor
Which was apparently not to likening of a certain king wanting a divorce, so he ignored them and made his own version. Which also produced
Ardranor
What is probably the most common version of afformentioned book.
mattituuude
*Among English speaking Protestants. Not among most Christians it doesn't even have all the books.
Ardranor
Interest or a personal favorite apostle could change it up however the like. Say, a king who wants to start his own sect for "reasons"
ShaneEngland
Such as divorce
manstein92
Or start protestantism in order to have your own money maker sect
Ardranor
She should have had a boy. It was her own fault really. /s
whatwhatwhonow
Do we have free will, though? How could you demonstrate it?
cliffjumper83
If we are assuming the bible is correct then we have free will b/c it is a given in the Bible
Akurei00
This... should not have received downvotes.
Menathradon87
Can you demonstrate a formula showing we do not? Within the observable universe is seems we do. No evidence to the latter.
whatwhatwhonow
That's not how the burden of proof works.
Menathradon87
I just used free will to reply. Using all modern methods of science it can be hypothesized I have free will.
whatwhatwhonow
And for a long time it *seemed* like the sun orbited the earth. That didn't make it so.
ohhhDrew
If the universe is truly infinite, then everything that could happen will happen whether on our planet or an alternate one. No freewill
Menathradon87
That proves an unlimited possibility, not that actions are preordained.
cliffjumper83
Apparently there is a theoretical limit to the size of the universe
Menathradon87
It is becoming less theoretical each day.
wasstimmtmitdirnicht
As PhDin philosophy and theology, don’t believe this shit. Read some serious literature and get some knowledge and insights
whatwhatwhonow
I'm so sorry about your wasted degree.
wasstimmtmitdirnicht
Haha thanks. I do have a sold job you know. But alas, hey we‘re on the internet only cool counts
pronoun
You mean a meme of a comedy bit isn't historically accurate? You need to contact the Center of Truth and Integrity in Memes immediately.
wasstimmtmitdirnicht
I like that I like that comment a lot. It’s actually funny
rhodesianpolarbear
This is the equivalent of a creationist saying, "If we evolved from apes why are there still monkeys?" It's not even remotely accurate.
BigBenThisHeresRubberDuck
This.
Munchman347
? Talk about a 'False Equivalency'. One has nothing to do with the other. If you can refute it, do so, don't make up red herrings...
Menathradon87
I think is delivery is weak but the premises is both arguments rely upon over simplification to make a point about a personal opinion.
rhodesianpolarbear
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theosophical.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/the-telephone-game-and-the-transmission-of-the-bible/amp/
rhodesianpolarbear
My point is both arguments are based on ignorance. The NT history is nothing like what he describes.
SirReginaldXII
Great, now try to poke fun at Islam.
tacticalattackterriers
I wish they didn't arrange their book by order of word count per chapter, instead of chronologically/subject.
Doumdidoum
Actually (self lol)... Muslims have ancient and extensive tradition of debating and criticizing what text is true / probable / unprobable
flavivsaetivs
They re-dated parts of the oldest known Quran and found several chapters were written during the reign of Justinian, well before Muhammed.
ElephantKid
oh you... shush you and your hate speech you islamophobic monster. /s
SirReginaldXII
Guys the back slash s means he’s being sarcastic. It’s a Reddit thing.
ElephantKid
it is? i just started using it after seeing people use it on imgur
SirReginaldXII
Half the time people on imgur don’t get it.
AaronGodgers
Huh? New testimony was written in ancient Greek which people still speak/read..
Munchman347
'Was translated into'... The Bronze Age goat herders who told the original tales didn't speak Greek...
Menathradon87
Source them goat herders? Legit curious about this one.
Munchman347
All early religions relied on 'oral history' since almost no one but a few scholars could read or write. And who better to tell these tales?
Menathradon87
Right, but Christianity is not the sole product of oral traditions or of goat herders. I know of no historian making the claim.
Munchman347
Did scholars follow Jesus, writing down his every word? Or was the story passed orally for the 10 to 30 years it took to begin writing it?
TheSwampAngel
Actually, it was in "Koine Greek" - sort of like "Basic" in Star Wars. Back then it was like English is today. But that was New Testament.
Menathradon87
Comparing Koine Greek to 1st Century English is very misleading. One has historical continuity making translations traceable. Not the other
TheSwampAngel
There's no such thing as 1st Century English.
Menathradon87
My mistake but all the same the premise are still the same.
Fuzzynubz
Nobody but a total idiot would claim it was "written by God."
agentarcher
There was this fella by name of Timothy.
TigerThong
and there are plenty of those
Blastergv9
And the world has a lot of idiots in it
Fuzzynubz
Sadly true
pronoun
BurninCat
YesButAlsoYes
OP is obvious troll
congratufuckinglations
They sure live by it. Doesn't make sense either, if you ask me.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
They don't really live by it though. Every Abrahamic religion and sect interprets it differently, and then each follower in each religion /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
or sect uses parts of that and ignores other parts. /2
congratufuckinglations
Mmmm you're right. I guess what I meant was, it's still a strong guide, and while I like Christian principles, it is 95% BS.
MrBEC
If you read the Bible you would know not to be an asshole. Just because other people are shitty doesn't mean you should be Insensitive
MrBEC
That's exactly my point thou. Also let's give some love to the Jewish people of Imgur
Fuzzynubz
Wah. Shaddap.
threekeymoves
I'm not defending that guy but I don't think you have to read the Bible to not be an asshole.
HereticsAllOfYou
Catholic and Orthodox claim it was inspired and guided, but not literally written. Nor do they claim all authors had the same intent.
flyingmonsters
Yep. Especially with the Gospels, they were written with different audiences in mind.
Alysaere
*Official stance as released by the organizations. Individual opinions of clergy may differ.
HereticsAllOfYou
That's always the case with any religious body. It's precisely why central doctrine exists, not why it's not relevant.
Fuzzynubz
Exactly.
sact3rnlang3l
Catholics also used a COUNCIL to decide what is Canon... Like literally voting on what is considered true doctrine...
flyingmonsters
Based on certain criteria set forth by them, so nothing wrong with that
TheOtherTruth
Luther did the same thing with much less input.
Menathradon87
A bit more to it than voting, but at it's core yes.
LinearAlgebro
how would you prefer it
SayIAmYou
According to the Vatican council for apocrypha, the composition of the NT is about textual congruency. Stuff left out isn't necessarily>>
SayIAmYou
>> theologically invalid, it just didn't fit in.
dsafghffson27185
Cute, but false. Modern translations are made directly from manuscripts in the original languages. Not edited translations of translations.
[deleted]
[deleted]
dsafghffson27185
The point is that the original post is nonsense.
GrievousBHarmsworth
Tyndale was translating directly from Hebrew and Greek to English in the 1500s. Your statement stands even without the "modern" qualifier.
arachnoides
I think the post refers to these 'original manuscripts' from which translations are taken.
TannerBFly
tacticalattackterriers
Bingo. The skepticism about infallibility should be in the fact that two separate councils decided which texts to keep/toss later.
tacticalattackterriers
Not with the translations, which from a purely linguistic standpoint, are carefully maintained.
Doumdidoum
Hmmm. Most christians don't use the modern translations. They use the old ones.
OtterlyMagnificent
That's funny...I've never even LOOKED at a KJV...but I have an NLT, NIV, and NLW version on my shelf (Which aren't the same, and some of 1/
OtterlyMagnificent
the differences change meanings of different phrases.) 2.2
dsafghffson27185
No, the “old ones” are in archaic English that’s almost unreadable today. Everything since the 1500s is direct from the original languages.
flavivsaetivs
Actually modern translations are typically based off Byzantine Greek versions from the 7th century.
dsafghffson27185
That’s true.
chaseathompson
From the 600s? That's just not factual or true at all. Modern translations utilize texts from the 600s, but also much earlier texts.
flavivsaetivs
The Greek Septuagint is mostly what I'm referring to. The oldest complete copies date to the 600's.
flavivsaetivs
However, there are fragments that go back as far as the 4th century, and possibly a few 2nd century fragments of the Pentateuch.
Meloncov
A sizable chunk of evangelicals still insist that the King James Bible is the one true divinely inspired English translation.
tacoparlor
*ahem* MORMONS
2074red2074
Which is funny because it's actually one of the less accurate English translations
dsafghffson27185
If by “sizable chunk” you mean small minority, that’s true
tacticalattackterriers
They just tend to be the loud ones who try to get noticed. Sort of a fandom-like effect.
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
Early in the Bible's history they had to translate it through a few languages to get it to English, but you're right, thats not the case now
Tesseract09
There will still be biases present from those old translations
dsafghffson27185
The Catholic Church translated to English from the Latin vulgate before the reformation, but even that was just one extra step.
KarlHeinrichUlrichs
The earliest known Christian bibles were written in Greek. They were based on prior texts which may have been written in another language.
dsafghffson27185
No, Greek was the language of the New Testament writers. The original articles would have been written in Greek.
Tenugui
And Jesus's sermons and his disciples, they were speaking Greek?
dsafghffson27185
Aramaic
KarlHeinrichUlrichs
I concede that all gospels were most likely written in Greek but there is an outside chance the Q source wasn't.
Tesseract09
If it existed. Isn't there still some debate on that, as no suitable document has been found?
KarlHeinrichUlrichs
Lotsa documents from that era are lost to time. What we do know is Matt and Luke share material that doesn't come from Mark.
dsafghffson27185
“Q source”, lol
KarlHeinrichUlrichs
What, do you disagree with the belief that Matthew and Luke derive in part from an unknown common source?
RedStreak
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I hate when people literally play with history to fit their agenda, the Bible today is
RedStreak
-very similar to the dead sea scrolls, not to mention the desciples were real people who visited real countries -
TheSwampAngel
1/2 Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions should have some basis in fact. Otherwise we get Flat Earthers.
TheSwampAngel
2/2 Current Bible is pretty accurate.
RedStreak
-and the letters of Paul are just that, letters written by Paul, and the Old Testement is taken right from the Jews, you don't have to-
RedStreak
-believe it, but don't act like the Bible is completely different from the original writings, it's historically inaccurate to do so
Munchman347
All the 'original' writings were based on the same oral history. Two similar versions of the same story does not validate either. 1/2
Munchman347
2/2 And the existence of early 'missionaries' doesn't prove anything but that there were 'believers' who traveled to 'real countries'...
lesbianwholovesbeerandcheese
Still a book full of homophobic misogyny whoever wrote it.
iwenttousersubandalligotwasthislousyusername
I mean agreed, but now you're just talking about a text being a reflection of the culture at the time/place, not a unique trait to the bible
RedStreak
Okay like I said, just because thays how you feel doesn't mean you get to play with history, also I wouldn't say misgyny, Jesus appeared-
pronoun
No it is not "full" of homophobic misogyny. It's a narrative with a messages like "love thy neighbor," and "judge not lest ye be judged."
oblivire
They did find that the chunks in the Dead Sea Scrolls were very similar to the current existing version, and those are ~2400 years old...
FarkasMacTavish
Not NEARLY as old as Judaism as a whole.
nanyatenyaa
Its almost like the peoples in that region shared stories in their oral tradition. We call those today "semites" - and not just jewish ppl!!
MrHailstone
Most of the bible is just fanfiction. Really bad fanfiction
Tesseract09
The new testament ones were still written 70+ AD well after the events described in them.
flavivsaetivs
They found they were fairly similar to the modern Torah. There were a lot of minor differences in lexicon, etc. though.
Zack1001
It's almost like both religions are based around the same principals or something...
flavivsaetivs
No what I'm saying is that it's closer to the modern Torah than the modern Old Testament.
BobboJobsy
Wait. I am confused, I thought the Torah WAS the old testament?
flavivsaetivs
They're not exactly the same.
homoerection
Still written by a bunch of old fucks in the desert. Nooooo thank you.
chockodragon
a dozen pages hardly represents the bible. The resurrection was written 500 years later for example.
sqag
Innana was resurrected in 2000BC or so. See "Descent into the Underworld" in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inanna
chaseathompson
This is not even remotely true.
pronoun
That's because it happened later....
OuroborosX
Wow, 2400 years old? That's like half the age of the universe! Wait... sorry, that's like half a blip of nothing in universe time.
Doumdidoum
Not really though. Extensive difference over ythe vulgate version. As for the AT, most of the tampering happpened 100s of years before.
AnythingMuchShorter
They also said don't steal, and don't kill, and had a messiah story. Truly unique stuff that could only originate once.
pronoun
What does that have to do with the fact that the dead sea scrolls prove the Bible wasn't "re-re-rewritten and re-re-reedited?"
Munchman347
And then poor Mithras got overshadowed by that new-comer, Jerusalem Slim...
Akurei00
You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't pull the mask off the ol' lone ranger and you don't mess with Jerusalem Slim.
merelyadequategooglymoogly
#NotSureIfIronic
GravesForscythe
It's not irony, it's sarcasm.
MrArthurRadley
#PrettySureItsSarcastic
AnythingMuchShorter
#yeahItIsThanksBro
Californiajackson
If one has a knowledge of ancient history, there's just too much to say to even bother starting.
Bigemedic
Jesus died 2019 years ago. Checkmate.
snldude87
Born ~2019 years ago. Died around 30 years later.
lotaxi
Neither is correct. He was born between 10 and 4 BCE. CE started around the death of Herod.
snldude87
Acknowledged. I used the tilde to indicate a circa. But you're right, recent evidence places it about 5-10 years before the time period.
[deleted]
[deleted]
IbeenFarteen
There are so many things wrong with this philosophy, I don’t even know where to start
sqag
No world religion is the majority, so if you worship God you worship someone who lies to most of his worshippers.
jerome5500
Did you just say "true opinion"?
ShaneEngland
Like how does one judge the truth of an opinion
IbeenFarteen
You remind me of relatives who only think of religion, instead of real world happenings and current events. Lacks critical thinking. Bad 4
IbeenFarteen
everyone.
Schmuck4hire
What are the Dead Sea Scrolls? 'Sounds like the McGuffin for a treasure-hunter adventure.
GoCorral
They kind of are. I could see them being used in another National Treasure movie if they made one.
awburton2010
They were displayed at the museum in Denver. Fascinating exhibit, but I laughed the whole time. Jews Christian's and muslims are all based
awburton2010
Off the same thing, hold very similar beliefs, and practice religions based from the same people and texts, and hate eachother forever. Why?
MegaDeuce
Ask Seele.
krisslanza
No, no those are the SECRET Dead Sea Scrolls.
SophieClockwise
twotrue
"Original Copies" if there are such a thing, of parts of the Bible dating as some of our oldest known manuscripts. They include some (1)
twotrue
Rejected books that I won't comment on, but are an interesting account of how well the translation of the Bible has stood the test of time 2
twotrue
Which makes me question this guy, as there are many issues with the Bible but temporal consistency is really not one of them
Schmuck4hire
That's fascinating. But why was I downvoted? Was this something I really ought to know?
oblivire
Admittedly, that only accounts for the old testament
PoopholeAintALoophole
https://youtu.be/DSXJzybEeJM
uniprime
Damn fine stuff.
geneparmesan07
Testament or...guesstament?
starlord56
Then the codex sinaiticus which is about 1700 years old is very similar to the rest. Sure ignorance is funny but its not the truth
AmunKnowN
And not the 14+ missing books?
ittibittybooey
14+ missing books? You mean the Gnostic texts?
AmunKnowN
The missing books of the Bible. I could be wrong on the number but there are several books including the apocrypha that are missing.
ittibittybooey
Oh, yes, the apocrypha and the pseudepigrapha.
SirReginaldXII
Which is a majority of the Bible.
redumulis
Yeah, but everyone conveniently forgets the old testament.The whole, "God loves you!" message kind of gets muddied by the murdering 1/2
redumulis
2/2 everyone with fire because actually he hates us and everything we became to be,
HelpImTrappedInUserSubAndICantGetOut
Also, 30-90 years is super close to the date they were writing about as far as historical documents go. People frequently reference (1/?)
chockodragon
3 generations
HelpImTrappedInUserSubAndICantGetOut
Suetonius and Plutarch when looking at Julius Caesar, both were writing over 100 years after his death, many writings are much older! (2/2)
MajorasFall
Yeah but those Christians only really get wet for the newer part.
astralfields
That's how it's supposed to be. The Old Testament is provided as context for the changes the NT introduces.
veewonroadate
I wonder how accurate that new new part is...
080080
you wouldn't think that by how big of a hardon they get for the shit in leviticus and deuteronomy...
eovsvin
clln86
If it suits their needs.
dingofdong
Only the bits they like, though. Shellfish and polyester/cotton blends seem to be A-OK so long as there's no gay shit
ShaneEngland
Well really only a few parts, you know christians love their seafood after all
SirReginaldXII
If the first half is accurate where god is angry and vengeful people better hope the second part with compassionate Jesus is true lmao
blairmichod
The Old Testament highly suggests the Hebrews aren't God's chosen people.