BeFairToEveryonePlease
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Dec 31, 2020 1:27 AM
BeFairToEveryonePlease
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68people
Tbf, it doesn't look like it at first glance....
GreenTeaParty
Things change and public art should better represent the changes: get over it, that statue is not great.
Jooud707
I mean now that I see it i do understand why its being moved, not a great image when you look at it objectively
imyourrealdad
This really is a shitty statue.
Ddongchim
Ozzcer
To be fair, I'm only a European but this looks like a reasonably easy to misunderstand statue
RowanUnderwood
You realize that their ancestors wanting to create it, and wanting to get rid of it now, are not mutually exclusive right?
ReaperCDN
Notice republicans aren't arguing about this removal? They dont want their party associated with helping black people.
ironsonic
I believe I read somewhere although it was paid for, the exact content and pose were not agreed between the artist and the fundees.
billyrayvirus
The sculptor did not convey the right message.
GoodGraces
Humility is the answer to the question of life. Ask before reacting. Learn before acting, and you can avoid making harmful mistakes.
ratilda
The Trump's Wall or his golf vacations are paid for solely with taxpayers' money. Should we all like it for that fact? This statue is shit.
nevergoingtogiveyouupnevergoingtoletyoudown
Apparently Emancipation is too big of a word for the woke club.
CivilizedUndead
Lincoln wasn't an abolitionist, and opposed black people having the same rights as white people.
FeartheDeer
Kind of hard to show he’s rising up...cuz it’s a statue. Mostly looks like he’s just crouching, inferior to Lincoln. We can do better
pigzunderground
I would have liked to see a statue of an emancipated slave standing shoulder to shoulder with Lincoln rather than on the gound like that
pigzunderground
It doesn't matter if it was paid for by emancipated slaves, it was a mistake to make it that way at the start, it should be corrected
mr200431415
We're still slaves today... Just of different sorts. We're slaves to aggressive manipulate corporate capitalism. Ask the device in your hand
AssumeTheRisk
Frederick Douglass did not approve. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-frederick-douglass-had-say-about-monuments-180975225/
Orelldo
Its a copy of the original monument and was removed "after the city agreed with protesters who say the memorial is demeaning and -
Orelldo
- lacks proper context." It's just a Google search away..
Thehoffmiester
Dolly Parton!
datphone777365
illogical06
It looks like I businessman is blessing a guy kneeling. Not sure how this is supposed to be interpreted as 'rising'.
Midgarmerc
Context died in 2016
tpanyS
All these incompetent tardballs throwing the word "woke/wokesters" around not even able to spend 15 seconds to search and find the (1/?)
tpanyS
statue has literally been controversial from the very placement of it. Oh stay classy you knuckleheads lol. (2/2)
5amNonsense
Didn't you know? Every controversial issue is just a modern product of the Woke SJW Libtard Starbucks Cancel Culture crowd overreacting!
ratilda
The main idea of town statues is to set an important reminder for the younger generation. Ask your kindergarteners what do they see is...
ratilda
going on between the people portrayed in this statue - their answers might surprise you. If children do not get it right, it's a bad design.
DownVoteVerifier
I like this out look. I tend to side with keeping statues as reminders of our past but you have changed my mind a bit.
ratilda
Thank you for saying that
FlyNaked
The ignorance of the woke crowd is quite sad.
lwoshea
Have you honestly read and thoughtfully considered any of the criticisms that led to the decision?
TheResolver
How do you feel about removing Confederate statues? That will tell us all we need to know about your statement on "woke" culture.
delecti
Public opinion changes with the times. The history of a monument doesn't override the how a physical monument is received by us.
bigeasy44
Just because it was “paid for by freed slaves” doesn’t mean the artist/sculptor did a good job depicting what they wanted.
PriscillaTheMoonDaemon
The ignorance of all humans makes me sad. When I find that I am ignorant I find that cringe.
hankovich
"What I want to see before I die is a monument representing the negro, not couchant on his knees like a four-footed animal...
hankovich
...but erect on his feet like a man." (Fredrick Douglass, regarding this statue)
LordNergal
He seemed proud of it, actually: https://edan.si.edu/transcription/pdf_files/12955.pdf
zchamp7
If he was erect it would have to be in a separate category
BarrackHusseinIslamabama
As far as I can see they're both pretty black
akrabbim
Well, obviously modern woke kids understand slavery and racism better than actual freed slaves.
YeastInfectedWhiskerBiscuit
Modern woke kids need to go outside and play "hide and go fuck yourself"...
gotigs
Times. Change.
PriscillaTheMoonDaemon
Could have also been the racist older generation trying to get rid of all evidence of slavery being bad.
evangrumling5
It could have been
BunchaCrunchOfHuman
Do you think the freed people got to choose what the statue looked like? Or just had to settle for what people would allow to be exhibited?
SirBedeveretheWise
That is exactly correct. Former slaves raised money for a statue, but the design was chosen by committee that was 100% white
bigeasy44
Just because it was “paid for by freed slaves” doesn’t mean the artist/sculptor did a good job depicting what they wanted. It was criticized
bigeasy44
by Frederick Douglas for these exact same things back when it was first installed.
KillerTofu69
It feels like a perpetuation of the "white savior" trope.
LordNergal
Douglas seemed proud of the statue in his speech: https://edan.si.edu/transcription/pdf_files/12955.pdf
Pachathedog
Less so here: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-frederick-douglass-had-say-about-monuments-180975225/
LordNergal
Read it again. He wasn't unhappy with the Lincoln statue. He was unhappy Grant didn't get one as well.
HistoricHindsight
Frederick turned his back on John Brown, who literally took up arms against slave owners so.......
bigeasy44
Just because it was “paid for by freed slaves” doesn’t mean the artist/sculptor did a good job depicting what they wanted.
LordNergal
Douglas seemed to disagree: https://edan.si.edu/transcription/pdf_files/12955.pdf
YeastInfectedWhiskerBiscuit
Pretty fuckin' sure if they hadn't they would of asked for their money back until they got what they fucking paid for...Fuck your feelings.
CivilizedUndead
They were former slaves, and black people to boot. Do you really think that they would have gotten their money back during that era?
5amNonsense
The "fuck your feelings" crowd is sure having a lot of strong feelings in this thread
SpartanC185
But the point remains that its meaning is not that of support for slavery. Shouldn't exactly be high on the "burn it down" woke list.
Camelspotting
That's only true if people know about it.
SpartanC185
So people should act out of ignorance?
Camelspotting
It's ability to convey knowledge is primarily through the image. The image does not look great.
SpartanC185
One would think that a statue portraying the man who freed the slaves would cause someone to question whether it was intended racism.
VeryLongTimeLurker
you expect people to be able to read with the state of the American education system?
Fairdinkums
Apparently not
psyche8229
Dpunch4
Dude I fuckin read that as "statue of the american education" and was very confused. "Why do americans use statues like this?" I thought.
youreathing
edu...edma... THAT SOUND LIKE A SCHOOL WORD! GIT 'EM BOYS!
bassaro
Man I sure wish I knew what this said.
Zamm005
Add to that: you expect people to read after getting repeatedly punched in the face? You can’t expect reasonable from people you’ve been unr
Zamm005
Unreasonable to... they just want to punch you back. A thing almost none of us are capable rising above. Even tho it’s our best interest!
ThisIsYourLifeNow
"I not read good. But dis tell word 'American' so it must been compliment. So, Thanks! America! America!" -`mericans
Angel337
Don't blame the education system for willful ignorance
EMTsaidwhat
What?
pooperscooper3333
Yea and I’m boston, one of the most well-educated cities in the world
pooperscooper3333
In*
wipethatfaceoffyourheadbitch
Ahh, that’s unfortunate. You almost had it.
pooperscooper3333
Well I don’t live in Boston so yea
alcaray
boston doesn't live in Boston?
TheHorseShesElbowDeepIn
Apparently it's always been controversial, Frederick Douglass criticised it. And it's just being moved. Removed implies discarding it.
confanity
Yeah, but why would the Post report accurately when it could just stir up some clickbait culture-war BS?
SirBedeveretheWise
The original is a few blocks from my house here in DC. Slaves paid for it, but the committee that chose the design was 100% white.
LurkerOfDarkness
Moved to a more prominent position hopefully.
toolarchy5
It's the ny post, nothing to see here, move along people. Giving them attention is what they are after
Targe0
That right there is bait. That's what the NY Post deals in. It baits people into fighting each other.
DiscoTurtle87
DiogenesPendergast
Do you expect people on the Internet to care enough to actually read about it and find out it's not true?
LordNergal
He seemed proud of it in the speech he gave when it was unveiled: https://edan.si.edu/transcription/pdf_files/12955.pdf
ghostofvenera
The npr article is so wildly biased and out of context with history they should be ashamed of printing it. The post.. has no shame...
LordNergal
The famous quote everyone cites to say Douglas was unhappy? It comes from him complaining about Grant not getting a statue too.
badgesweedontneednostinkingbadges
Yes, moved to "storage". Out of sight, out of mind. It will eventually end up in the Smithsonian's "Failed Art Museum" along with ...
badgesweedontneednostinkingbadges
... Confederate flags and statues.
CharCharBeast
Who finds it controversial, the KKK?
GenghisKhan2020
Frederick Douglass to name one.
ghostofvenera
That would be false.
GenghisKhan2020
He liked the idea of it but he said, "The negro here, though rising, is still on his knees and nude, What I want to see before I die -
GenghisKhan2020
-is a monument representing the negro, not couchant on his knees like a four-footed animal, but erect on his feet like a man." So he did -
Zeroforwinger
I could see the objection to it. The kneeling implies subjugation. Even if they were appreciative it’s maybe not the best message for today.
ghostofvenera
It’s a symbol from abolitionist movement of the time.
ghostofvenera
It was used widely in letterheads.
namAehT
Honestly them shaking hands would probably have made for a much better statue
sordatos
Maybe Lincoln giving him a hand to stand up would've been a better image
Targe0
That could then be seen as "The White Man helping the lesser Black man stand because they can't on their own" imagery of statues has to be-
Targe0
very careful about things because they are going to be around a lot longer then the people with the correct context for them. -
ontarioOT
Yeah, I can see it, it kinda has a "white saviour" vibe to it.
koflan
Whole white emancipator vibe
coronakilla
This
Tristanisawesome
Imma get down voted into oblivion, but if anyone is a "white savior" it's fuckin Lincoln.
Kumonryu42
Freed. Slaves. Literally. Commissioned. And. Paid. For. It.
icyanddicey
I assume some of them, not collectively. There might be some who don't like it.
Kumonryu42
And? No one likes everything and everything shouldn't be liked, but anyone that says this is racist is just shamelessly virtue signaling.
AndThenThereWereSquirrels
Social. Norms. And. Opinions. Are. Not. Fixed. Points.
Kumonryu42
What the fuck does that even mean in relation to what we're talking about?
Aboutasbad
What the actual fuck though? Who are we to stay that its offensive to oppressed people when oppressed people commissioned it!
BaelKor
So?
edward8767
But he kinda was their saviour no? He literally abolished slavery. If whites can be blamed for enslaving, he hasto have credit for unslaving
infiniteflux
The problem is that in order for the white savior, you had to have the white oppressor. But there are no statues of that.
Anthonycompulsive
But isn't he supposed to be in the process of standing up, not kneeling?
VictusVonGuyver
It's meant to be this but it's not the first impression it gives unfortunately.
NarratesTheDarkerStory
anyone seeing that would think kneel. that's the issue. honestly, can't see how the original made it through concept.
Taxicat
The pose is not at all clear. That’s a big deal in art: you need to make sure your character’s gestures are very clear and immediately >
Taxicat
>obvious. Avoid the “vague silouette” problem where you can’t easily tell what it’s trying to convey.
shmekie
Yes but it looks like kneeling. There’s no good way to show someone unkneeling in frozen statue
geruhn
There are, pick a pose that doesn't make sense in only one way. An "inbetween resting poses" pose
Nakeela
He is. But as a foreigner seeing this for the first time I thought he was a shoe cleaner. Lincoln could have been bending down and 1/2
NapkinBob
I don't know... Maybe read the plaque before making uninformed judgements could be a thing.
Sinikko
You know the saying, a picture says more than a thousand words. This is a bad picture. No matter what it symbolizes.
Nakeela
offer an arm or hand as support. Knowing what it is now I appreciate the statue but it could have been executed better. 2/2
koops
^that would have been a better interpretation. More symbolising a helping hand.
ghostofvenera
Frederick Douglas approved that specific monument.
tehmeisterer
He dedicated t at the unveiling and then wrote a letter critiquing. I don't think he was on the board of western sanitary commission
nevinera
He was on the board that approved the *plan*, but when he saw the actual statue he was pretty annoyed.
nevinera
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/05/frederick-douglass-letter-lincoln-statue
ghostofvenera
Out of context. Seriously
nevinera
I'd be happy to learn the truth if I have it wrong, but you'll need to provide me with better historical evidence than "you're wrong"..
ghostofvenera
That’s false.
nevinera
I could believe it, but would you mind providing any references?
nevinera
Wikipedia isn't a *primary source* or anything, but his includes some nuance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Memorial
nevinera
> After delivering the speech, Frederick Douglass immediately wrote a letter to the editor of the National Republican newspaper in /
BeerFueledAdventurer
And was critical of it: "The negro here, though rising, is still on his knees and nude...what I want to see before I die is a monument 1/
BeerFueledAdventurer
representing the negro, not couchant on his knees like a four-footed animal, but erect on his feet like a man." 2/
BeerFueledAdventurer
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/29/951206414/statue-of-lincoln-with-freed-slave-at-his-feet-is-removed-in-boston
ghostofvenera
Literally on the board that commissioned it.
somedudeyoumightknow
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/29/951206414/statue-of-lincoln-with-freed-slave-at-his-feet-is-removed-in-boston
ghostofvenera
This article is wildly out of context... they should retract it
ghostofvenera
Also the monument was paid for by freed slaves.
ghostofvenera
There’s also a ton of context being missed by us today that had a lot more meaning then in the composition of the piece.
somedudeyoumightknow
A statue dedicated to Abraham Lincoln was commissioned via donation by former slaves, but they didn't decide what it looked like.
ImgurMadeMeChangeMyNameCauseItsDumb
Should really read that article above