If true, stuff like this always reminds me of an ancient Jimmy Kimmel joke when he was hosting for Win Ben Stein's Money. They always used classical music for the show's themes, and he said (paraphrasing), "You think we use this stuff because we're classy, but really it's because we're cheap," since classical music (generally) has no copyright protection.
Imo, the best music is always inspired by classical compositions. Lots of EDM draws from classical compositions, but Metal has a lot of classical influences too. And I think you can find examples in every kind of modern music, and it wouldn't surprise me if most of them are great songs.
Classical music doesn't just mean a certain note progression though. You can use the same basic melody to compose a rock, synth pop, calypso etc. song or a faux-classical one. Faux-classical because one of the defining traits of actual classical music is the time period. So no, Seven Nation Army is most definitely not classical music. It merely borrows a tonal progression for an alt-rock piece.
Before classical music our tuning systems were completely different. Everything we hear before classical music is generally tuned incorrectly. So it's hard to escape most melodies as we haven't really updated the entire musical system in like 300 years and generally we follow classical theory in almost all modern western music.
Ultimately, music all falls together as the same thing. The tones are frequencies that repeat at 1300hz, so it starts all over again. The style and key in which you play determines the genre. Classical music will follow all of the basic structured rules; jazz and blues are faster tempo and utilize a particular set accidentals; rock is fast and typically uses a mix of major/minor; metal primarily utilizes minor and is very fast; a pop song is written by 50 people and uses baby oil.
while the actual historic time is surely kind of a factor, to cathegorize music by style its not the melody, its the choice of instruments, the style of playing, tempo, and the general assemble...one and the same melody could be used in classical music if played on strings, or techno if created fully electronical, or rock by a rock band, jazz by a jazz band, metal by a metal band, there are no boundaries to that...its similar to people confusing setting and genre in movies...
There is a classical style of music and a classical era of music. Modern compositions in a classical style are generally considered neoclassical. But yeah, not all European music played during the classical period was classical music.
It's a great take. Also, classical music is such a broad generalisation of so many musical expressions over an enormous period of time. Can we really lump Mozart and Erik Satie on the same bag? Or Camille Saint-Saëns and, say, Brahms?
Well, strictly speaking only Mozart's work falls into Classical period (1750-1820. Not really that enormous). Brahms was a Romantic composer, Saint-Saens an Impressionist. Satie composed during the Impressionist era but defied convention and did his own thing.
This is what I failed to explain, my bad. For the average person, these are all classical composers, as they often have no frame of reference in terms of the different time periods. Aesthetics, composition changed greatly over time, even back then. Throw in a Prokofiev, why not? :)
Don't you think that's a little pedantic? The intent is obviously to point out that it's borrowing that progression from a romantic era symphony, not to argue that the song itself is classical. Lots of artists do this and I think it's a great thing to point out to the average listener who won't know the references — and definitely won't care about the nuances you're nitpicking at.
It's fine to point this out, but to call an alt-rock song "classical music" is a bridge too far. Even modern compositions that sound like classical music are neoclassical at best. You can't build a classical house anymore either. The architectural style would be neoclassicism since the classical period has long passed. It would be like claiming you've forged an ancient Roman gladius when all you've done is created a replica.
PS: The cherry on the cake is that Bruckner was a Romantic composer (meaning his work falls into the period of Romanticism). So even the original isn't a Classical composition.
Right, but again, the target audience is the average listener, and the average listener has only heard of classical, they get lumped together in common parlance. You're not beating the pedant allegations here 😂 If he had said the song was romantic, everyone would think he meant a love song, not a piece composed in the 19th century in the style pioneered by Beethoven. Do you want people to be partially educated or completely confused?
You give people way too little credit. Maybe you're extrapolating from yourself, but I believe most people are aware that there was a Classical time period which does not include all of human history. And the claim "Seven Nation Army is Classical music" is not a partial education, it's flat out false. A rock song is a rock song no matter from where it draws inspiration.
It can happen that people inevitably copy something they may or may not have heard before. The former because we don't have a perfect memory but the melody might still linger somewhere, the latter because there's a finite number of chord progressions and it's completely reasonable for two people to come up with the same thing by accident.
Right?! Like 7 notes, and the modern ear likes standard E tuning on top of that! Of course four chord progressions dominate today and have for hundreds of years, and as you say, there are only so many combinations of ABCDEFG you can make! (I am simplifying, of course, but this is the gist of it)
Very true, and I think it's important to know which is which given the guy above is stating an entirely different story as fact and then the person you're replying to says the opposite lol
That was so infuriating, the guy who owned the rights to "He's So Fine" wouldn't accept any payments, he wanted the full rights to Harrison's work and kept it tied up in court for like 30 years, really stifling such an incredible song bc it was so hard to license during that time
See also Rob Paravonian's "Pachelbel Rant" from a couple of decades ago, where he points out that a good portion of then-current pop and rock music used the same chord progression from Pachelbel's "Canon in D".
Virtually anything these days is a four chord progression. I would argue simply transposing those four chord changes nothing. It is merely slapping a capo on a guitar. All my favourite songs are four chord progressions, so I focus more on lyrics.
The whole album is done in uncommon time signatures right? My favorite is Take Five, watching Joe Morello effortlessly play the drum solo never gets old
I have a remastered copy on 180 gm vinyl. It really enhances the depth of the soundstage. You can almost hear the physical distance Brubeck is behind Paul Desmond .
EJust
12 pitches, a couple hundred chords, ignoring duplicates, it all repeats somewhere. The key is to tickle the cochlea in a way that sparks emotion.
GeorgeCostabaplaps
Ok how come Seven Nation Army was in the gymnasium with Barbie Girl if it was released in 2003? I clearly recall it in 1999
zobPilot
Its all been done
Degarafarat
I like this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB6HY8r983c&list=RDsB6HY8r983c&start_radio=1
robertdoobies
Every song has already been written, just not by you
jzastrow
Don't get me wrong, violins are great, but there's a lot of classical pieces that just sound better with modern instruments and or production
NaughtButOne
If true, stuff like this always reminds me of an ancient Jimmy Kimmel joke when he was hosting for Win Ben Stein's Money. They always used classical music for the show's themes, and he said (paraphrasing), "You think we use this stuff because we're classy, but really it's because we're cheap," since classical music (generally) has no copyright protection.
khele
justplainvanilla
jimicus
All music is classical music. Or rock. Or punk. Really, the main difference is in playing style and instruments.
Acc87
Soon classical music will just be all music played by actual humans on actual instruments (that even including synths)
Ricobe9
https://youtu.be/NHbmkpGlD1k?si=Dl9JEtaMUTjK3aRZ
FistsofSnake
of fucking course it's number 5
rulerofthedingdongs
But is it a mambo?
anyofmany
I don‘t think the word sample is used right here
hexephant
Sound familiar? No, mf'er, you're talking over the music the whole time.
stevenbarnhurst
Was thinking the same thing!!! So frustrating
HarperLee
Thank you, I cannot make out the classical sample to save my life
swil22
That would be the sanctimonious Dan Walker - that is his style. We had to put up with him presenting football coverage until he ‘left’ the BBC.
Tjitso
Imo, the best music is always inspired by classical compositions. Lots of EDM draws from classical compositions, but Metal has a lot of classical influences too. And I think you can find examples in every kind of modern music, and it wouldn't surprise me if most of them are great songs.
unremarkableasterisk
Classic Bruckner.
Mreman71
That made me spit take my tea. Good job.
unremarkableasterisk
thotterpop
I like to imagine that it was just created by Jack White and his band, and someone happened to notice the similarities and then made this story up.
Multipass
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlc2Q4a2c4d21lY3lpZDY2dDltaHQyOHZhNmRhdXpuMmIxMWN5YmlzeSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/CQDmX4bCoJTNK/giphy.mp4
randomwalrus
Bruckner is a time traveler, who stole it.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
Classical music doesn't just mean a certain note progression though. You can use the same basic melody to compose a rock, synth pop, calypso etc. song or a faux-classical one. Faux-classical because one of the defining traits of actual classical music is the time period. So no, Seven Nation Army is most definitely not classical music. It merely borrows a tonal progression for an alt-rock piece.
Smokinsalmon
Before classical music our tuning systems were completely different. Everything we hear before classical music is generally tuned incorrectly. So it's hard to escape most melodies as we haven't really updated the entire musical system in like 300 years and generally we follow classical theory in almost all modern western music.
ReleaseTheBeeees
Also calls it a surprising sample.
DontPUNishme
Well said.
nation543
Ultimately, music all falls together as the same thing. The tones are frequencies that repeat at 1300hz, so it starts all over again. The style and key in which you play determines the genre. Classical music will follow all of the basic structured rules; jazz and blues are faster tempo and utilize a particular set accidentals; rock is fast and typically uses a mix of major/minor; metal primarily utilizes minor and is very fast; a pop song is written by 50 people and uses baby oil.
jimicus
Exactly.
This is pure punk. Yet it was written by JS Bach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Swa3op93wY
Weehuahua512
Thank you.
RecurringNightmare
while the actual historic time is surely kind of a factor, to cathegorize music by style its not the melody, its the choice of instruments, the style of playing, tempo, and the general assemble...one and the same melody could be used in classical music if played on strings, or techno if created fully electronical, or rock by a rock band, jazz by a jazz band, metal by a metal band, there are no boundaries to that...its similar to people confusing setting and genre in movies...
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
There is a classical style of music and a classical era of music. Modern compositions in a classical style are generally considered neoclassical. But yeah, not all European music played during the classical period was classical music.
InTangier
It's a great take. Also, classical music is such a broad generalisation of so many musical expressions over an enormous period of time. Can we really lump Mozart and Erik Satie on the same bag? Or Camille Saint-Saëns and, say, Brahms?
banderan
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
Well, strictly speaking only Mozart's work falls into Classical period (1750-1820. Not really that enormous). Brahms was a Romantic composer, Saint-Saens an Impressionist. Satie composed during the Impressionist era but defied convention and did his own thing.
InTangier
This is what I failed to explain, my bad. For the average person, these are all classical composers, as they often have no frame of reference in terms of the different time periods. Aesthetics, composition changed greatly over time, even back then. Throw in a Prokofiev, why not? :)
Judging
Don't you think that's a little pedantic? The intent is obviously to point out that it's borrowing that progression from a romantic era symphony, not to argue that the song itself is classical. Lots of artists do this and I think it's a great thing to point out to the average listener who won't know the references — and definitely won't care about the nuances you're nitpicking at.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
It's fine to point this out, but to call an alt-rock song "classical music" is a bridge too far. Even modern compositions that sound like classical music are neoclassical at best. You can't build a classical house anymore either. The architectural style would be neoclassicism since the classical period has long passed. It would be like claiming you've forged an ancient Roman gladius when all you've done is created a replica.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
PS: The cherry on the cake is that Bruckner was a Romantic composer (meaning his work falls into the period of Romanticism). So even the original isn't a Classical composition.
Judging
Right, but again, the target audience is the average listener, and the average listener has only heard of classical, they get lumped together in common parlance. You're not beating the pedant allegations here 😂 If he had said the song was romantic, everyone would think he meant a love song, not a piece composed in the 19th century in the style pioneered by Beethoven. Do you want people to be partially educated or completely confused?
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
You give people way too little credit. Maybe you're extrapolating from yourself, but I believe most people are aware that there was a Classical time period which does not include all of human history. And the claim "Seven Nation Army is Classical music" is not a partial education, it's flat out false. A rock song is a rock song no matter from where it draws inspiration.
HollerinAtTheVoid
I could have sworn I saw an interview with Jack White where he said he was just messing around and discovered that hook.
Seeing as almost everything is written in some variation of 4/4, there’s bound to be some historical overlap eventually.
Barkinsons
It can happen that people inevitably copy something they may or may not have heard before. The former because we don't have a perfect memory but the melody might still linger somewhere, the latter because there's a finite number of chord progressions and it's completely reasonable for two people to come up with the same thing by accident.
Gliocas
Right?! Like 7 notes, and the modern ear likes standard E tuning on top of that! Of course four chord progressions dominate today and have for hundreds of years, and as you say, there are only so many combinations of ABCDEFG you can make! (I am simplifying, of course, but this is the gist of it)
Feralkyn
Very true, and I think it's important to know which is which given the guy above is stating an entirely different story as fact and then the person you're replying to says the opposite lol
bikergeek6249
That was, essentially, the finding when George Harrison got sued for allegedly having stolen "My Sweet Lord" from The Chiffons' "He's So Fine".
Elroydb
That was so infuriating, the guy who owned the rights to "He's So Fine" wouldn't accept any payments, he wanted the full rights to Harrison's work and kept it tied up in court for like 30 years, really stifling such an incredible song bc it was so hard to license during that time
bikergeek6249
See also Rob Paravonian's "Pachelbel Rant" from a couple of decades ago, where he points out that a good portion of then-current pop and rock music used the same chord progression from Pachelbel's "Canon in D".
peedrinkingcrapface
"Whiter Shade of Pale" (Procol Harum)
StNickCage
And then listen to "Tacobel Canon" by Ratatat bc it's great.
spookymormonhelldream
Similarly, Axis of Awesome did their 4 Chord Song
jimicus
Yup. "All Together Now" (The Farm), "Memories" (Maroon 5), "C U When U Get There" (Coolio).
There's some more recent things too.
Gliocas
Virtually anything these days is a four chord progression. I would argue simply transposing those four chord changes nothing. It is merely slapping a capo on a guitar. All my favourite songs are four chord progressions, so I focus more on lyrics.
Elroydb
Dave Brubeck: Hold my beer
interestingmonster
Steely Dan aside. This is my favorite album of all time. Been listening to it since I was a kid. Which tracks are you referring to?
Elroydb
The whole album is done in uncommon time signatures right? My favorite is Take Five, watching Joe Morello effortlessly play the drum solo never gets old
interestingmonster
I have a remastered copy on 180 gm vinyl. It really enhances the depth of the soundstage. You can almost hear the physical distance Brubeck is behind Paul Desmond .
Elroydb
That's a treasure right there