My dad died last September, but one story I will never forget about him was the time I was 8 years old and he brought me to the home depot workshop. They give you an apron and it had your name on it, your favorite color, and your favorite animal. I said rainbow and white tiger. He said "are you sure about rainbow?" I said yes and he responded "fine by me". Too many dad's out there wouldn't allow such a thing, and that's a shame.
My mom was the one who yelled at me and shamed me if I cried. Never my dad. Women. Check yourselves. Of course this was the 70s so everyone had to take some licks somewhere.
My son always had feminine tendencies. I let him do him. Later he told me that he's mostly not gay.... mostly not. lol. He's 28 now. I love him to bits.
As a middle aged dude, I just learned last summer that some of my lifelong male friends are mostly not gay too. They're all married to women, but they have varying interest in men too. I didn't know gay was a sliding scale because I've never felt any attraction. They made me take a test on my phone to gauge my gayness because they didn't believe I was really at the edge of the spectrum. I thought it was: gay, straight or bi... but it turns out there's a lot of steps in between those three.
My mom's awesome. Dad was... complicated. Not with us anymore. Did the blammo. You shouldn't feel bad about winning the parent lottery, I'm gonna come over for dinner if you guys want
As a trans women, yes please. So much transphobia is rooted in 'men "lowering" themselves in the social hierarchy to the level of a woman' due to good old patriarchy. One of the effects of toxic masculinity is to dissuade any many from wanting to give up that place of social privilege.
I was at the mall of America this weekend, walking through the amusement park and overheard a guy saying he wasn't going to go on any rides because he "wasn't gonna wear no bracelet". How does someone get to the point where that thought even enters their head.
The amount of stupid shit I've been told is 'gay' or 'unmanly' and thus as a cishet male I shouldn't.
A short list: Sunscreen (because not wanting to get cancer is somehow not manly) Workplace safety (When I worked as a roofer I was told that only...certain people care about being tied off. Guess it's unmanly to not walk off a 3 story fall)
Honestly, butterflies are wild and nature is incredible. My father taught me all about respecting nature and the importance of an ecosystem. Plus, you ever seen butterflies fuck? It's crazy
My father used to snorkel with me and loved showing me all the cool stuff he knew about oceans. I ended up going into paleontology, but I focused a lot on marine paleontology. Cool dad's are cool
As a kid, I was asked what my favorite color was. I look at that big box of 128 colors and the most exciting one obviously is "hot pink!". Not pink, HOT, NEON, pink. Got bullied for that through elementary school. As an adult, I'm less shy, I work construction, I fight MMA and Muay Thai, I pay my taxes and damn Skippy I've got a lot of hot pink gear aaaaaaa /gallery/wZmJouZ
Growing up, when I wanted to do anything "girly" it was women and girls who gave me the most shit about it. The attacks come from all angles and it's even worse if you grew up a smaller guy.
I feel for you. I did a lot of "girly" things too. Most of my friends through school were girls, but I was also the biggest kid in the school, so people didn't have the nerve to say anything g to my face. It still suvked to hear it second hand, but I had some great friends to help make up for it.
My son and daughter take turns painting each other's nails. My son is almost 14, daughter almost 11. It's paint that goes on nails and last I checked, boys have nails. We need to stop gendering every inanimate object and let kids enjoy shit before adulthood kicks them in the face.
One mother of the postpartum excersise course I attended wouldn't let her son (3 months old at the time) wear tights, because they were "unmanly". And god forbid any garment that wasn't blue.
This is the one that broke me... they are 3 months old. By no definition are they a man. At 3 months old they are still trying to figure out which side of the play pen smells the best.
I guess if she was using the broadest definition of man (a human being) he is man...but by that definition no one should be wearing tights
Meanwhile my friend's son wore only pink and purple for the first year of his life, because the doctors mis-sexed him (this was years ago) so she thought she was having a girl, and everyone had bought for that. But she wasn't going to let perfectly good clothes go to waste. He turned out fine.
Historically, pink and purple were male colors. This only changed very recently - and to this day, nobody bats an eye if a grown man wears a pink dress shirt.
I am a man, I have a boy, you are correct this is a common view, but I think it's improving.
I know parents who are actively anti-lgbtq, and they will demand an explanation of my son having nail polish. We say he likes color, and he likes attention. That honestly usually is enough for them to move on and their kids play with our kids. Their kids will ask him and he says "nail polish is for everybody". As a 7 year old that's his hill. Sometimes he takes it off, that's ok too.
I would recommend checking his fingernails, though. Last year I wore clear nailpolish a lot and I noticed after some time that my fingernails because weaker and grew much slower. No idea what the exact mechanism was, but I suspect that the chemicals in the polish affected the fingernail substance after a while. Might be even more of a problem in a child because of more delicate tissues (skin, nails, hair etc.)
Aww my son used to go get pedicures with me and he would even pick out a nail polish color for his toes. One time the nail tech asked weirdly if that was ok and I said yea sure whatever he wants. Maybe they just wanted to make sure that it wasn’t going to upset me. He sometimes still lets me paint his toes but he’s 13 now. He was just a little boy then who liked the colors and would fall asleep in the chair while the lady would massage his feet and trim his toenails.
Am a gay guy who passes for straight among straight people, and I wear nail polish all the time. I've had people ask me, like, why I have it on or what it means, and I know they want to know if it means I'm gay but I love confusing the shit of them. "I like your nails, why'd you paint them?" "Because I wanted them to have colors, I guess?" "No, but, y'know, do they -mean- something?" "...they mean I wanted them to be silver and purple."
I have often said "keeping your son from doing "girly" things won't stop them from (or make them) be gay". On THEIR side they have years of PROOF that it worked, but what they fail to realize is that all those people were still gay, they were just closeted and repressed and then angry and resentful and the cycle continues.
I was arguing with my MAGA BIL about “turning” kids gay. I asked him what it would’ve taken to “turn” him when he was, say, 10 or 13. “Nothing on earth could’ve made me gay!”
“So why in the blue fuck do you think it’s going to happen to kids now?”
Straight homophobes fear gay men treating them like they treat women. It's not about conversion, it's about their visceral fear of experiencing the same things that 'lesser' members of society do. Now, I've had gay dudes get uncomfortably handsy (I'm also a gay man), but I've never experienced the kind of isolation or aloneness that women do every goddamn day. Secondary advice: if they're MAGA, they refuse to accept a large segment of the population's humanity, and thus should be ignored.
The psychology behind it is literally " I don't want my kid to be gay because i need to protect them from all the hate i have for gay people" The more homophobic you are, the more of a tragedy it seems. It would be no big deal if they themselves weren't hateful.
You mean all the stereotypes about gays being less masculine might not be true? That one can be masculine AND like dicks? No, it cannot be true, else how could REAL men show the world they are straight? Imagine if someone could someday confuse them with a gay person... Their whole personality would crumble!
This is obviously true for some % of the population. But I don't think it is for everyone. Not every parent is a raging homophobe and almost every parent does enforce gender norms.
IDK, I think boys compete with each other physically in a lot of ways girls do not. Take the phrase, "you throw like a girl," or "you hit like a girl," one of the worst things a coach can tell you as a little boy. It means you're failing and letting down your team. Letting others down is the WORST thing you can do.
How many dads just give their kid the old pat on the back when he comes home from his first fist-fight for "learning how to stick up for himself" or his friends? How many get shamed for being bullied and not doing something about it other than tattling?
You know that phenomenon where a man won't ask for directions? Because it means you've let everyone down. You fucked up and got them lost and couldn't fix it on your own. 2/3
The problem with the butterfly isn't that it's gay, more that it's frivolous. Frivolous is really what they don't want you to be. "Majoring in underwater basket weaving" or just art history. It's not beauty that's the enemy, or even femininity, it's frivolity. That's what's behind, "You're gonna have to learn to grow up and be a man!" Lighthearted, whimsical fun is not allowed. You have to be a pillar, on guard, ready to fight, preparing for someone to lean on.
There is some layer of truth to this, but a skull and crossbones isn't any less frivolous. A sense of duty is included in the masculinity package, but a lazy guy who does nothing with his day is far less derided as "not a true man" than one that pursues an efeminine life.
The other week I did facepaint as well and there was one little boy who wanted to be a cute fox. The father actually went along and requested being painted as well - also as a cute fox. Now it isn't the most girly motif, but I loved that the father just went along with it. From his attitude I believe he would also have accepted a unicorn.
I used to babysit a 7f, 5m, 2m trio. Big sis wanted to play with her new nail polish and the boys wanted to try as well. We were painting them outside. 4yo wants blue and orange tiger stripes so I’m doing those, while 2yo does his best to decorate my toes. Their neighbours, dad with his older boys, were outside. Dad starts asking the 4yo if he REALLY wants this, as if he’s being put up to it. The kid doesn’t even notice the attempt at shame and he says “YEAH!!” and I’m still proud 15 years later
Had I been more than a teenager and had some worldly experiences I’d probably have tried to have a proper talk with the kid about being proud to be himself and not letting anyone tell him boys can’t do something. Instead all I knew to do was compliment his taste, encourage his individuality, and pretend to quake in terror when he made tiger snarls at me with his awesome new claws. 🐯
I'll always remember when my oldest son was maybe 2 and my oldest daughter was 3. We had a little cabinet of costumes in the play room. My son picked a little pink tutu/skirt to put on. He asked my wife to help put it on and she sent him to me instead to make sure I was chill with it. Yeah dude! I'll help you. Then he ran off with a big smile to play.
My wife didn't care, of course, but she legitimately didn't know if I would care and wanted to allow me to have an opinion. 1/2
Almost 10 years later and my son's just a normal kid who loves Pokemon, Nerf, and Minecraft. Who cares. He's happy and enjoying life as much as he did that day as a toddler with a dress on... Clearly not scarred or ruined or whatever this lady thought might happen if her son liked something not masculine.
My son loves painting his nails with his mom and sister. I was a little concerned that other boys would make fun of him but as far as I know he hasn't had any problem with it. I thought for sure my dad would say something when we were visiting them and he told my son that he liked his nails (in a genuine tone)! I was shocked (and impressed).
I saw something similar leaving a renn faire where a 3 year old fell and skinned his knee while i was chatting with his mom. When I automatically was like 'aw, buddy. You got a booboo.' she scoffed and said 'sorry, he just needs to toughen up.' No comforting, no acknowledgement. It blew my mind. Ive got girls but that doesnt matter. He was 3 fucking years old. i would fuckin NEVER.
Some people just have no empathy for others. Even if a grown man would have fallen down I would ask if he's ok and needs help. I don't understand how you can't care for the pain of your own kids. What's wrong with people?
Yep. My son's class was recently making their own t-shirts and the teacher had one table for girls and one table for boys with "gender appropriate decorations" on each table. On the way home my wife was so mad when he told her that he wanted to use some decorations from the "girl's" table and the teacher wouldn't let him. I had to tell her not to jump to conclusions because she may have tried to support that in the past and the parents freaked out for that too (like the mom with the clown).
That one post from the dude whose wife went super misandriat and misogynist when he cried after hearing about children being massacred in a genocide. After days of hidden resentment she exploded with "I didnt know I married a woman!" And "they werent even your children". What in the fuck?
Which is really sad, because at the end of the day, it's just internalized misogyny for those women. Toxic masculinity is really just a deep level of misogyny masquerading as macho BS. The moronic idea that men and the things that men do and the things that men like are inherently better in every single way. And that it's only okay for women to like "inferior" feminine things because they themselves are inferior THINGS.
We socialize women to believe that the best thing that they could be is an appliance/concubine/broodmare in some man's life. And we socialize men to believe that the worst thing that they could ever be is a woman.
Often, though not always, anger and hatred are learned behaviors. Either from parents or figures of authority, friends and peer groups, or even the news and social media, a lot of the anger that seems so prevalent in this country isn't inherent, but taught.
Look back on the multiple generations that considered (and still do even) getting black out drunk then pissing/shitting yourself followed up by rampant beatings pretty much considered the only thing allowed…. Was taking out trash where I am currently few weeks ago and heard the neighbor literally spanked his son… get spanked give or take 100+ times in one session plus other “smaller” ones and you better believe my ass puckered and retreat! Was my first thought…
Hoping you live where Child Protective Services have the legal authority to remove children from such abusive families. And you report this. Not saying foster care is wonderful, but the kid is more likely to actually survive.
It’s pretty heavily camp R here with a side of Mormon (which they latter they’re arent) so wouldn’t hold my breath. Next day ironically they appear to have just loaded up a moving van and left. Thought they went on vacation, But nope. Nothing remains
My 5yr old son loves everything rainbow, including his winter hat, his shoes, face paint at the ren faire, stuffies, every art project he makes, etc. He’s trying to convince us to get our van custom painted. That’s where I draw the line.
Yeah, I’m not into spending custom paint job money on a minivan. I can support his love for beauty AND be practical. Although I was just observing that cars are so boring. Not enough dragons…
Every kid I know have had a phase when their favorite color is pink. Luckily all the people close to me are smart enough to let kids like what they like. My nephew is not gay even though 10 years ago he had pink mittens. And if he was gay btw, we would love him all the same.
One of my oldest friends is straight as an arrow and his favourite colour is pink, but growing up he got teased for it so he never got to enjoy it until he became an adult and decided he no longer gave a shit what people think. I never thought it was weird or teased him, which is probably why we became friends, and because of that I got to know a funny and amazing dude. If everyone could just give less of a shit about personal preferences, I think the world would be Ok.
I like how people think Kirby is 'dainty' or 'girly' lol. Kirby is a blob pretty sure Kirby has nothing as far as sex and gender go even though I think they refer to him with masculine pronouns. But Kirby is probably the most overpowered character Nintendo has created, he can steal any ability, devour an entire population, and literally kill gods in the games.
Everyone gets killed by the giant apocalyptic beams of light. Everyone. Link takes about one hit on his shield then turns to dust. Captain Falcon tries to hop in his vehicle and gets wrecked before he hits leather. Falco's in an Arwing but can't get away fast enough. Sonic the motherfucking Hedgehog can't get away fast enough. Warriors and Gods alike are shredded instantly.
Kirby hops on a warp star and accelerates so goddamned hard he exits the universe
My favorite response to the backlash of "Why was Kirby the only one to survive?" would be Sakurai going "Bitch, I made Smash Bros, if I want my OC to be the hero that saves everyone I can just do that."
I heard that when Steve was added to Smash Bros, he was so completely overpowered they had to nerf him. Basically even Kirby couldn't touch him, which is ridiculous, no one should be stronger than Kirby, not even a guy who can punch a tree down.
They only use male pronouns in the localization material for Kirby. Canonically Kirby is gender-neutral or unknown and they use non-gendered pronouns in the source material. https://lgbtqia-characters.fandom.com/wiki/Kirby
When he was 2, I bought my nephew a baby doll because he loved babies. He'd cuddle and change the diaper. At a birthday party, he had a huge purple & blue butterfly painted over his whole face. The other kids loved it! In preschool and kindergarten, he played house with the girls when the boys started to play too rough. He was routinely the only boy invited to girls' parties. None of this "turned him gay."
The other boys bullied me so I started hanging out with girls wich made me popular with the guys in later years since I was the one who knew all the girls. This also did not "turn me gay".
Bigotry, sexism, racism, and every other toxic 'ism is taught. Kids take their cues from the adults around them that they trust. Most kids don't understand any of the context about something they are unfamiliar with so they look to how an adult reacts to it and mimic that. If a butterfly painted on a boys face is no big deal to the adults guess what? It's no big deal for the kids then either. People need to stop modelling toxic behaviour to their kids because that's what perpetuates all of this.
I was the same. “Female” playing habits and aesthetic tastes, and Mostly female friends up to the current day - all it’s done is made me more comfortable and empathic to them, and better adjusted to them as relatable people. Ironically, being “feminine” in that way has helped me romantically my entire life: seems like women prefer men who don’t see them as alien. Now I’m getting married next year, and if I have a son I’ll encourage him to be the same way.
As the clown touched on, there is a strong undercurrent of misogyny in the socialization of boys to reject anything deemed feminine; they are taught that it is shameful, and girls and others are taught that too. Feminine folk constantly feel the contempt that patriarchal society has for them, and as you said, it is alienating. Thank you for pushing back against that and seeing us as people. That's huge.
Yeah it’s awful - right down to how people comment on young boys are “little ladies’ men” when they get in trouble for harassing girls, or are praised for fighting other boys. there’s social pressure to pass on heteronormative misogyny lest your son dares to become an “effeminate” man… it’s disgusting. My hippie mum was a psychologist and educator, and she raised me with a gender-free focus on being a human rather than a “man” - one role for everyone. An Infinitely happier life.
My son is 2 and hoards stuffed animals. He has his favorites but he loves them all. His cousin is not nearly as into stuffed animals so slooowly all the stuffed animals he doesn't like, somehow magically migrate into my son's crib :D We take them places, feed them, change their diapers, tuck them into bed, etc. And yes, the stuffed tiger DOES get to evict me from my chair if "he" wants it. Priorities!
I met this really weird woman who didn’t want her son to play with baby dolls. Same woman complained about how her husband wouldn’t help her take of the household and the kids.
I'm assuming she picked that husband herself and she is the one instilling those same ideas about masculinity in her son. If no one brakes the cycle, that bloodline is fucked.
My daughter had a tea party birthday when 2. Little boy LOVED playing tea. The dad refused to get him a set! I later bought the boy a coffee set, which the boy loved and “passed” for the dad. Didn’t know tea was gendered.
Had a friend whose son looooved playing with my daughter’s doll house. The father refused to get him his own, but was fine with a nearly identical fire house set.
my parents were always chill. but as a man (then boy) who had an interest in baking and in tea brewing (not just play pretend or real tea bags, but making custom blends etc.) OH BOY IS TEA GENDERED, and oh boy is it considered a girly thing. absolutely hobbies to hide if trying to fit in. also a great way to find the right folks to hang out with, they were the ones who i didn’t need to hide either from, and who actually appreciated it.
I once knew a man who made custom tea blends to sell and earn money with. Loved his teas! Sadly he passed away too soon (his 60s I think). A loss to the world! :(
I love drinking tea and have so many different kinds it's ridiculous. My SO started getting interested in tea the last few years and I LOVE that he finds fun fruity teas or dark bold teas or whatever kind he wants and he gets to enjoy drinking them. It makes me sad that other people don't get to experience that.
If he was gay, we wouldn't care. He's the sweetest, kindest, gentlest person I've ever known. He's also happily married and had a daughter of his own. He and his wife don't buy "irl toys or just girl clothes. She loves her swingy skirts and tutus but also loves her black and grey outfits and Metallica shirts.
I love that a straight male was allowed such freedom! His wife and daughter are so lucky to have a husband and dad this mentally strong! (And yes, nothing wrong with being gay. I'm just happy to see people being.. themselves!)
As an uncle of a young niece and nephew I try to ask them what they want/like to do when we hang out whatever it is and if it's harmless and fun I let them do it and their parents are happy as long as the kid is happy. Hell for halloween one year my nephew decided he wanted to dress like Elsa, while my niece wanted to be Spiderman. The next year he wanted to be a football player and she wanted to be Elsa that year. Let kids explore what all the world has to offer.
RuKosopaty
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
No. I want to hear about the balloons
Jangande
My dad died last September, but one story I will never forget about him was the time I was 8 years old and he brought me to the home depot workshop. They give you an apron and it had your name on it, your favorite color, and your favorite animal. I said rainbow and white tiger. He said "are you sure about rainbow?" I said yes and he responded "fine by me". Too many dad's out there wouldn't allow such a thing, and that's a shame.
xenjamin
My mom was the one who yelled at me and shamed me if I cried. Never my dad. Women. Check yourselves. Of course this was the 70s so everyone had to take some licks somewhere.
LurlineLumpkin
My son always had feminine tendencies. I let him do him. Later he told me that he's mostly not gay.... mostly not. lol. He's 28 now. I love him to bits.
ageek3000
As a middle aged dude, I just learned last summer that some of my lifelong male friends are mostly not gay too. They're all married to women, but they have varying interest in men too. I didn't know gay was a sliding scale because I've never felt any attraction. They made me take a test on my phone to gauge my gayness because they didn't believe I was really at the edge of the spectrum. I thought it was: gay, straight or bi... but it turns out there's a lot of steps in between those three.
dudehiemer
Sometimes compromise is the best policy.
CorvidPrime
That starting comment made me expect a funny post. What I got was a reminder of how great my parents were…
GravyEducation
My mom's awesome. Dad was... complicated. Not with us anymore. Did the blammo. You shouldn't feel bad about winning the parent lottery, I'm gonna come over for dinner if you guys want
thedarkcanuck
It never occurred to me before that as a clown, you would have a literal clown boss. And as a clown boss, you'd have literal clown employees
damogen
"You acted like a complete clown today"
"thank you for noticing"
Jinxer13
-"does it honk" -"Should i go to HR or are we doing an equipment check?"
TheEvenPrez
We need to stop telling men the worst thing then can be is a woman
Elnauriel
As a trans women, yes please. So much transphobia is rooted in 'men "lowering" themselves in the social hierarchy to the level of a woman' due to good old patriarchy. One of the effects of toxic masculinity is to dissuade any many from wanting to give up that place of social privilege.
Nikolai5
That's the first time I've heard that before, what a great succinct way to describe this bullshit.
NewUsernameWhoDis
I was at the mall of America this weekend, walking through the amusement park and overheard a guy saying he wasn't going to go on any rides because he "wasn't gonna wear no bracelet". How does someone get to the point where that thought even enters their head.
ilikepot8os
The amount of stupid shit I've been told is 'gay' or 'unmanly' and thus as a cishet male I shouldn't.
A short list:
Sunscreen (because not wanting to get cancer is somehow not manly)
Workplace safety (When I worked as a roofer I was told that only...certain people care about being tied off. Guess it's unmanly to not walk off a 3 story fall)
Noob3rts
Honestly, butterflies are wild and nature is incredible. My father taught me all about respecting nature and the importance of an ecosystem. Plus, you ever seen butterflies fuck? It's crazy
TyrannusEquus
My father used to snorkel with me and loved showing me all the cool stuff he knew about oceans. I ended up going into paleontology, but I focused a lot on marine paleontology. Cool dad's are cool
Noob3rts
Facts. Cool Dad's change lives.
TyrannusEquus
Fact!
StellaMatutina
As a kid, I was asked what my favorite color was. I look at that big box of 128 colors and the most exciting one obviously is "hot pink!". Not pink, HOT, NEON, pink. Got bullied for that through elementary school. As an adult, I'm less shy, I work construction, I fight MMA and Muay Thai, I pay my taxes and damn Skippy I've got a lot of hot pink gear aaaaaaa /gallery/wZmJouZ
QuanticChaos
I saw more to this post when it was posted elsewhere, I'll share them here.
QuanticChaos
QuanticChaos
QuanticChaos
Tempofx1
Growing up, when I wanted to do anything "girly" it was women and girls who gave me the most shit about it. The attacks come from all angles and it's even worse if you grew up a smaller guy.
WanderinBard
I feel for you. I did a lot of "girly" things too. Most of my friends through school were girls, but I was also the biggest kid in the school, so people didn't have the nerve to say anything g to my face. It still suvked to hear it second hand, but I had some great friends to help make up for it.
Fishsandwish
The dad in the jersey wanted a butterfly once upon a time. Stop the cycle. Let em have butterflies
coffeeandprozac
My son and daughter take turns painting each other's nails. My son is almost 14, daughter almost 11. It's paint that goes on nails and last I checked, boys have nails. We need to stop gendering every inanimate object and let kids enjoy shit before adulthood kicks them in the face.
TonawandaBlue
Fragile masculinity is dv'ing
behrditz
Unfortunately death throes are the most damaging. (Deleted and remade because my old comma placement felt like it gave a different meaning.)
afatality
in order for the betterment of the human race, humans have to be better to humans
Elvirana
One mother of the postpartum excersise course I attended wouldn't let her son (3 months old at the time) wear tights, because they were "unmanly". And god forbid any garment that wasn't blue.
ilikepot8os
This is the one that broke me... they are 3 months old. By no definition are they a man. At 3 months old they are still trying to figure out which side of the play pen smells the best.
I guess if she was using the broadest definition of man (a human being) he is man...but by that definition no one should be wearing tights
VoidScreamer
Meanwhile my friend's son wore only pink and purple for the first year of his life, because the doctors mis-sexed him (this was years ago) so she thought she was having a girl, and everyone had bought for that. But she wasn't going to let perfectly good clothes go to waste. He turned out fine.
DdCno1
Historically, pink and purple were male colors. This only changed very recently - and to this day, nobody bats an eye if a grown man wears a pink dress shirt.
Elvirana
Up until around 2005 I believe it wasn't common at all and would draw eyes.
ickyickywoopwoo
I am a man, I have a boy, you are correct this is a common view, but I think it's improving.
I know parents who are actively anti-lgbtq, and they will demand an explanation of my son having nail polish. We say he likes color, and he likes attention. That honestly usually is enough for them to move on and their kids play with our kids. Their kids will ask him and he says "nail polish is for everybody". As a 7 year old that's his hill. Sometimes he takes it off, that's ok too.
Zahnradfee
I would recommend checking his fingernails, though. Last year I wore clear nailpolish a lot and I noticed after some time that my fingernails because weaker and grew much slower. No idea what the exact mechanism was, but I suspect that the chemicals in the polish affected the fingernail substance after a while. Might be even more of a problem in a child because of more delicate tissues (skin, nails, hair etc.)
Zahnradfee
*became, not because
Elvirana
My friend's son had a t-shirt he absolutely loved. It was pink and had "Yes, I'm a boy and yes I wear pink" printed on it.
JCBalance
Daniel Tosh (yup, that one) started a line of pink clothes for boys.
They're extremely expensive though, which is a bummer.
ButterfaceTaintClown
In the mom's defence there could be a perfectly legitimate reason for not letting Billy have a butterfly on his face... /s /humor
AnxiaTeaDD
Aww my son used to go get pedicures with me and he would even pick out a nail polish color for his toes. One time the nail tech asked weirdly if that was ok and I said yea sure whatever he wants. Maybe they just wanted to make sure that it wasn’t going to upset me. He sometimes still lets me paint his toes but he’s 13 now. He was just a little boy then who liked the colors and would fall asleep in the chair while the lady would massage his feet and trim his toenails.
Nikolai5
I mean they should always ask for numerous reasons, some of them serious like allergies.
SpotlightStealer
Maybe they was just checking cuz they didn't wanna have a fight over the bill later. Customer service be like that some times.
parabolic000
Am a gay guy who passes for straight among straight people, and I wear nail polish all the time. I've had people ask me, like, why I have it on or what it means, and I know they want to know if it means I'm gay but I love confusing the shit of them. "I like your nails, why'd you paint them?" "Because I wanted them to have colors, I guess?" "No, but, y'know, do they -mean- something?" "...they mean I wanted them to be silver and purple."
ickyickywoopwoo
I'm all behind eroding the norms, in my view it's the norms that are the problem.
RocMage
I have often said "keeping your son from doing "girly" things won't stop them from (or make them) be gay". On THEIR side they have years of PROOF that it worked, but what they fail to realize is that all those people were still gay, they were just closeted and repressed and then angry and resentful and the cycle continues.
zagibu
Do you really think the out of sight, out of mind crowd cares about that? As long as they don't experience it, it doesn't exist.
SpotlightStealer
Occam's razor at it's finest
MikeRInternetTraveler
I was arguing with my MAGA BIL about “turning” kids gay. I asked him what it would’ve taken to “turn” him when he was, say, 10 or 13. “Nothing on earth could’ve made me gay!”
“So why in the blue fuck do you think it’s going to happen to kids now?”
parabolic000
Straight homophobes fear gay men treating them like they treat women. It's not about conversion, it's about their visceral fear of experiencing the same things that 'lesser' members of society do. Now, I've had gay dudes get uncomfortably handsy (I'm also a gay man), but I've never experienced the kind of isolation or aloneness that women do every goddamn day. Secondary advice: if they're MAGA, they refuse to accept a large segment of the population's humanity, and thus should be ignored.
Jinxer13
The psychology behind it is literally " I don't want my kid to be gay because i need to protect them from all the hate i have for gay people" The more homophobic you are, the more of a tragedy it seems. It would be no big deal if they themselves weren't hateful.
CapnNeckbeard
Why would doing girly things mean or have something to do with being gay? No correlation at all bud
DameDePiques
You mean all the stereotypes about gays being less masculine might not be true? That one can be masculine AND like dicks? No, it cannot be true, else how could REAL men show the world they are straight? Imagine if someone could someday confuse them with a gay person... Their whole personality would crumble!
RocMage
Yes, I think you have correctly understood my post and typed it back out in a different way.
StarSumiaki
Oh they don't "fail" to realize. They absolutely love us queers being closeted, repressed, and miserable. Indirect murder is easier murder.
MisanthropicMath
Damn, that’s depressingly profound.
Scylia
Thats why they want to make trans healthcare illegal, they want the trans suicide rate to go up, not down as we become comfortable as us.
hufflesnuff
This is obviously true for some % of the population. But I don't think it is for everyone. Not every parent is a raging homophobe and almost every parent does enforce gender norms.
IDK, I think boys compete with each other physically in a lot of ways girls do not. Take the phrase, "you throw like a girl," or "you hit like a girl," one of the worst things a coach can tell you as a little boy. It means you're failing and letting down your team. Letting others down is the WORST thing you can do.
hufflesnuff
How many dads just give their kid the old pat on the back when he comes home from his first fist-fight for "learning how to stick up for himself" or his friends? How many get shamed for being bullied and not doing something about it other than tattling?
You know that phenomenon where a man won't ask for directions? Because it means you've let everyone down. You fucked up and got them lost and couldn't fix it on your own. 2/3
hufflesnuff
3/3
The problem with the butterfly isn't that it's gay, more that it's frivolous. Frivolous is really what they don't want you to be. "Majoring in underwater basket weaving" or just art history. It's not beauty that's the enemy, or even femininity, it's frivolity. That's what's behind, "You're gonna have to learn to grow up and be a man!" Lighthearted, whimsical fun is not allowed. You have to be a pillar, on guard, ready to fight, preparing for someone to lean on.
Enoan
There is some layer of truth to this, but a skull and crossbones isn't any less frivolous. A sense of duty is included in the masculinity package, but a lazy guy who does nothing with his day is far less derided as "not a true man" than one that pursues an efeminine life.
Elvirana
The other week I did facepaint as well and there was one little boy who wanted to be a cute fox. The father actually went along and requested being painted as well - also as a cute fox. Now it isn't the most girly motif, but I loved that the father just went along with it. From his attitude I believe he would also have accepted a unicorn.
CanadianLadyMoose
I used to babysit a 7f, 5m, 2m trio. Big sis wanted to play with her new nail polish and the boys wanted to try as well. We were painting them outside. 4yo wants blue and orange tiger stripes so I’m doing those, while 2yo does his best to decorate my toes. Their neighbours, dad with his older boys, were outside. Dad starts asking the 4yo if he REALLY wants this, as if he’s being put up to it. The kid doesn’t even notice the attempt at shame and he says “YEAH!!” and I’m still proud 15 years later
CanadianLadyMoose
Had I been more than a teenager and had some worldly experiences I’d probably have tried to have a proper talk with the kid about being proud to be himself and not letting anyone tell him boys can’t do something. Instead all I knew to do was compliment his taste, encourage his individuality, and pretend to quake in terror when he made tiger snarls at me with his awesome new claws. 🐯
AnotherMeetingWithHR
Be like grandpa.
DeepSpaceNetwork
Lol, i watched without sound and could "hear it" and know who it was. Amazing 😁
manulofdoom
If he was gay, wouldn't he be more interested, in, like He-Man?
Dxoh
Grandpa didn't make him gay, he just helped him to not hate himself for being gay.
WilliamHuskerAdama
Fellas, is it gay to play with wonder woman toys?
RedFlameGamer
Cute story, but why in the hell did it need to be autotuned. That is grating af.
manulofdoom
That's why you never unmute
DarkfireDragon
It's a gimmick he does.
ChuckleVoodooist
IT WAS THE 90S!!!!
phaedrus4223
Sigge1981
Good on grandpa there, but I don't think the guy could make it any more annoying to listen to if he tried.
G0MeatCube
You don't like their gay voice lol
KAPTAINKAMIKAZEE
Thank Godzilla there are subtitles
celestedrake
I dunno, cound have random ads throughout and going from whispers to sudden shouting.
TheBlueMuppet
That just sounds like a summer movie, lol
rusrsdude
That's just his gay vibes vibrating through our skulls, I hear it's normal
ethajn
The gays bear no blame whatsoever for auto tune or this guy's abuse of it
MjnMixael
I'll always remember when my oldest son was maybe 2 and my oldest daughter was 3. We had a little cabinet of costumes in the play room. My son picked a little pink tutu/skirt to put on. He asked my wife to help put it on and she sent him to me instead to make sure I was chill with it. Yeah dude! I'll help you. Then he ran off with a big smile to play.
My wife didn't care, of course, but she legitimately didn't know if I would care and wanted to allow me to have an opinion. 1/2
MjnMixael
Almost 10 years later and my son's just a normal kid who loves Pokemon, Nerf, and Minecraft. Who cares. He's happy and enjoying life as much as he did that day as a toddler with a dress on... Clearly not scarred or ruined or whatever this lady thought might happen if her son liked something not masculine.
Let kids be kids. 2/2
ageek3000
My son loves painting his nails with his mom and sister. I was a little concerned that other boys would make fun of him but as far as I know he hasn't had any problem with it. I thought for sure my dad would say something when we were visiting them and he told my son that he liked his nails (in a genuine tone)! I was shocked (and impressed).
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
I saw something similar leaving a renn faire where a 3 year old fell and skinned his knee while i was chatting with his mom. When I automatically was like 'aw, buddy. You got a booboo.' she scoffed and said 'sorry, he just needs to toughen up.' No comforting, no acknowledgement. It blew my mind. Ive got girls but that doesnt matter. He was 3 fucking years old. i would fuckin NEVER.
RiaWeatherwax
Some people just have no empathy for others. Even if a grown man would have fallen down I would ask if he's ok and needs help. I don't understand how you can't care for the pain of your own kids. What's wrong with people?
xenjamin
How much of toxic masculinity is perpetuated by women? Lots. Lots and lots.
ageek3000
Yep. My son's class was recently making their own t-shirts and the teacher had one table for girls and one table for boys with "gender appropriate decorations" on each table. On the way home my wife was so mad when he told her that he wanted to use some decorations from the "girl's" table and the teacher wouldn't let him. I had to tell her not to jump to conclusions because she may have tried to support that in the past and the parents freaked out for that too (like the mom with the clown).
Lulabel73
Overbearing mothers do a lot of damage. Seems like half of the well known serial killers have this in common.
kojenk
That one post from the dude whose wife went super misandriat and misogynist when he cried after hearing about children being massacred in a genocide. After days of hidden resentment she exploded with "I didnt know I married a woman!" And "they werent even your children". What in the fuck?
DameDePiques
Well, poor guy sure did marry a heartless shrew! How horrible for him!
Tardis1217
Which is really sad, because at the end of the day, it's just internalized misogyny for those women. Toxic masculinity is really just a deep level of misogyny masquerading as macho BS.
The moronic idea that men and the things that men do and the things that men like are inherently better in every single way. And that it's only okay for women to like "inferior" feminine things because they themselves are inferior THINGS.
Tardis1217
We socialize women to believe that the best thing that they could be is an appliance/concubine/broodmare in some man's life.
And we socialize men to believe that the worst thing that they could ever be is a woman.
FacelessAce
Often, though not always, anger and hatred are learned behaviors. Either from parents or figures of authority, friends and peer groups, or even the news and social media, a lot of the anger that seems so prevalent in this country isn't inherent, but taught.
BeefiusMaximus1
You just rephrased what OP said?
mohavewolfpup
Look back on the multiple generations that considered (and still do even) getting black out drunk then pissing/shitting yourself followed up by rampant beatings pretty much considered the only thing allowed…. Was taking out trash where I am currently few weeks ago and heard the neighbor literally spanked his son… get spanked give or take 100+ times in one session plus other “smaller” ones and you better believe my ass puckered and retreat! Was my first thought…
executivedisfunction
Hoping you live where Child Protective Services have the legal authority to remove children from such abusive families. And you report this. Not saying foster care is wonderful, but the kid is more likely to actually survive.
mohavewolfpup
It’s pretty heavily camp R here with a side of Mormon (which they latter they’re arent) so wouldn’t hold my breath. Next day ironically they appear to have just loaded up a moving van and left. Thought they went on vacation,
But nope. Nothing remains
SaintWanderlust
My 5yr old son loves everything rainbow, including his winter hat, his shoes, face paint at the ren faire, stuffies, every art project he makes, etc. He’s trying to convince us to get our van custom painted. That’s where I draw the line.
lljkstonefish
Try drawing seven lines, with a bit of an arc on them.
SaintWanderlust
And you know, my healthy, masculine husband basically shrugs and then helps me design a multicolored mural for the boy’s bedroom.
TyrannusEquus
Is it painting the van itself, or do you differ on the subject matter. Personally I'd want a kick ass dragon.
SaintWanderlust
Yeah, I’m not into spending custom paint job money on a minivan. I can support his love for beauty AND be practical. Although I was just observing that cars are so boring. Not enough dragons…
TyrannusEquus
That is reasonable. I had a big magnetic sheet I planned on painting a flying horse skull, something I could take on and off.
WanderinBard
Compromise: A kick ass dragon breathing a flaming rainbow.
Damn... now I need to get a van to paint.
fadingtheory
My nephew loves butterflies, and pink because of Kirby. I'll slap the shit out of anyone if they say anything to him about it.
INeverCheckTheUserNames
Every kid I know have had a phase when their favorite color is pink. Luckily all the people close to me are smart enough to let kids like what they like. My nephew is not gay even though 10 years ago he had pink mittens. And if he was gay btw, we would love him all the same.
GravyEducation
I volunteer my hands if you tryna slap
TheDreadPirateMontoya
One of my oldest friends is straight as an arrow and his favourite colour is pink, but growing up he got teased for it so he never got to enjoy it until he became an adult and decided he no longer gave a shit what people think. I never thought it was weird or teased him, which is probably why we became friends, and because of that I got to know a funny and amazing dude. If everyone could just give less of a shit about personal preferences, I think the world would be Ok.
kaarbaakimgr
Yeah…it sucks when someone else tells you how to raise your own child, doesn’t it?
HalloIamherenow
I like how people think Kirby is 'dainty' or 'girly' lol. Kirby is a blob pretty sure Kirby has nothing as far as sex and gender go even though I think they refer to him with masculine pronouns. But Kirby is probably the most overpowered character Nintendo has created, he can steal any ability, devour an entire population, and literally kill gods in the games.
lljkstonefish
I fucking screamed with joy at the start of the storyline thingy in Smash Bros Ultimate.
Spoiler time:
lljkstonefish
Everyone gets killed by the giant apocalyptic beams of light. Everyone. Link takes about one hit on his shield then turns to dust. Captain Falcon tries to hop in his vehicle and gets wrecked before he hits leather. Falco's in an Arwing but can't get away fast enough. Sonic the motherfucking Hedgehog can't get away fast enough. Warriors and Gods alike are shredded instantly.

Kirby hops on a warp star and accelerates so goddamned hard he exits the universe
HalloIamherenow
My favorite response to the backlash of "Why was Kirby the only one to survive?" would be Sakurai going "Bitch, I made Smash Bros, if I want my OC to be the hero that saves everyone I can just do that."
PosthumousExile
I heard that when Steve was added to Smash Bros, he was so completely overpowered they had to nerf him. Basically even Kirby couldn't touch him, which is ridiculous, no one should be stronger than Kirby, not even a guy who can punch a tree down.
StellarJay77
They only use male pronouns in the localization material for Kirby. Canonically Kirby is gender-neutral or unknown and they use non-gendered pronouns in the source material. https://lgbtqia-characters.fandom.com/wiki/Kirby
Ismellofhockey
Your son should wear blue like a normal boy... now spank me daddy.
GravyEducation
Read the room
Ismellofhockey
Or what, I'll get downvoted? Oh no... I still like that joke. Would do it again.
GravyEducation
I mean yeah, downvotes are literally the only stakes
Ismellofhockey
So unless someone can explain why a straight guy acting queer ironically telling a boy to act straight isn't funny, I'll keep on liking the joke.
NineByNine
i mean the dude smells of hockey i don't think he can read.
GravyEducation
Yeah but he should know how to deke
CarbyD
But can he triple deke?
Primotimewaster
When he was 2, I bought my nephew a baby doll because he loved babies. He'd cuddle and change the diaper. At a birthday party, he had a huge purple & blue butterfly painted over his whole face. The other kids loved it! In preschool and kindergarten, he played house with the girls when the boys started to play too rough. He was routinely the only boy invited to girls' parties. None of this "turned him gay."
Vandalcraft
The other boys bullied me so I started hanging out with girls wich made me popular with the guys in later years since I was the one who knew all the girls. This also did not "turn me gay".
memeseeks
As far as you know... It still wouldn't matter anyways.
IamAlbertPotato
We wonder sometimes why men aren't better fathers, then shame boys for wanting dolls.
StellarJay77
Bigotry, sexism, racism, and every other toxic 'ism is taught. Kids take their cues from the adults around them that they trust. Most kids don't understand any of the context about something they are unfamiliar with so they look to how an adult reacts to it and mimic that. If a butterfly painted on a boys face is no big deal to the adults guess what? It's no big deal for the kids then either. People need to stop modelling toxic behaviour to their kids because that's what perpetuates all of this.
PassionAggressive
“He did sire 12 children before the age of 16 though, so it all worked out.”
MyRespectableAlterEgo
I was the same. “Female” playing habits and aesthetic tastes, and Mostly female friends up to the current day - all it’s done is made me more comfortable and empathic to them, and better adjusted to them as relatable people. Ironically, being “feminine” in that way has helped me romantically my entire life: seems like women prefer men who don’t see them as alien. Now I’m getting married next year, and if I have a son I’ll encourage him to be the same way.
Guluzinyu
As the clown touched on, there is a strong undercurrent of misogyny in the socialization of boys to reject anything deemed feminine; they are taught that it is shameful, and girls and others are taught that too. Feminine folk constantly feel the contempt that patriarchal society has for them, and as you said, it is alienating. Thank you for pushing back against that and seeing us as people. That's huge.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
Yeah it’s awful - right down to how people comment on young boys are “little ladies’ men” when they get in trouble for harassing girls, or are praised for fighting other boys. there’s social pressure to pass on heteronormative misogyny lest your son dares to become an “effeminate” man… it’s disgusting. My hippie mum was a psychologist and educator, and she raised me with a gender-free focus on being a human rather than a “man” - one role for everyone. An Infinitely happier life.
GabbyJayYay
Little rascal was reincarnated and managed to keep his old memories...
MjayDee71
He sounds like he’s going to be a great dad!
MarriNikari
My son is 2 and hoards stuffed animals. He has his favorites but he loves them all. His cousin is not nearly as into stuffed animals so slooowly all the stuffed animals he doesn't like, somehow magically migrate into my son's crib :D We take them places, feed them, change their diapers, tuck them into bed, etc. And yes, the stuffed tiger DOES get to evict me from my chair if "he" wants it. Priorities!
Aforaseem
Sounds like Garfield and Odie pair to me
ItTookMeAGoodWhileToComeUpWithAUsername
I met this really weird woman who didn’t want her son to play with baby dolls. Same woman complained about how her husband wouldn’t help her take of the household and the kids.
jelisaveta
I'm assuming she picked that husband herself and she is the one instilling those same ideas about masculinity in her son. If no one brakes the cycle, that bloodline is fucked.
Jostorm
Is your son named Calvin per chance?
MarriNikari
Oh you better believe we are counting down the days till we can read to him from our copy of the Complete Calvin and Hobbes!
sarzaya
My daughter had a tea party birthday when 2. Little boy LOVED playing tea. The dad refused to get him a set! I later bought the boy a coffee set, which the boy loved and “passed” for the dad. Didn’t know tea was gendered.
Zedrapazia
Apparently that means all the British people are women then. Tea time is gay! /s
StellarJay77
Well ya, that's why all gay men have a British accent.
sarzaya
Tardis1217
EVERYTHING is gendered to toxic males. If it has even a whiff of femininity, it goes in the trashbin in their minds labeled "for girls only".
MrsHowVeryDareYou
Had a friend whose son looooved playing with my daughter’s doll house. The father refused to get him his own, but was fine with a nearly identical fire house set.
ThomasThundersword
my parents were always chill. but as a man (then boy) who had an interest in baking and in tea brewing (not just play pretend or real tea bags, but making custom blends etc.) OH BOY IS TEA GENDERED, and oh boy is it considered a girly thing. absolutely hobbies to hide if trying to fit in. also a great way to find the right folks to hang out with, they were the ones who i didn’t need to hide either from, and who actually appreciated it.
Zahnradfee
I once knew a man who made custom tea blends to sell and earn money with. Loved his teas! Sadly he passed away too soon (his 60s I think). A loss to the world! :(
Gaelwyn
I love drinking tea and have so many different kinds it's ridiculous. My SO started getting interested in tea the last few years and I LOVE that he finds fun fruity teas or dark bold teas or whatever kind he wants and he gets to enjoy drinking them. It makes me sad that other people don't get to experience that.
CannonFolder
Tea being "gendered" as not an aggressive thing has always been wild to me given how much violence has happened over tea.
Falkh12
It all started in Boston...
Zahnradfee
If anybody would suggest that tea is somehow only for girls, this person would get burnt to a crisp by Uncle Iroh. ... Well, metaphorically, at least.
Primotimewaster
If he was gay, we wouldn't care. He's the sweetest, kindest, gentlest person I've ever known. He's also happily married and had a daughter of his own. He and his wife don't buy "irl toys or just girl clothes. She loves her swingy skirts and tutus but also loves her black and grey outfits and Metallica shirts.
StrawberriesandSunshine
I love that a straight male was allowed such freedom! His wife and daughter are so lucky to have a husband and dad this mentally strong! (And yes, nothing wrong with being gay. I'm just happy to see people being.. themselves!)
HalloIamherenow
As an uncle of a young niece and nephew I try to ask them what they want/like to do when we hang out whatever it is and if it's harmless and fun I let them do it and their parents are happy as long as the kid is happy. Hell for halloween one year my nephew decided he wanted to dress like Elsa, while my niece wanted to be Spiderman. The next year he wanted to be a football player and she wanted to be Elsa that year. Let kids explore what all the world has to offer.
GravyEducation
Fuck the normies, they're not even interesting
SmergBlaerghl
Awesome! For anyone wondering, the song is Them Crooked Vultures - "Dead End Friends"
IamMadeOfShamrocks
So true. I hate how these “fierce cultural watchdogs” are always the most boring, zero-talent people.
GravyEducation
And you're made of shamrocks so you can't be wrong
SavageDrums
Fuck yeah! You go little drummer girl!
GravyEducation
SavageDrums
Fuck he's a prince.