I agree with this but there's a difference between humor that offends and humor that is offensive. If your goal is to simply mock and offend, your not being clever or challenging, you just being an asshole.
“Comedy should be used to challenge” on this I agree, but that should be directed towards the status quo, use it to shine a light on things that thrive on peoples ignorance, systems that rely on people not knowing them. When you use it to “challenge” statements like “I should be allowed to live openly without being lynched” you’re just a fascist with a laugh track
Yeah, sure. But I usually hear this line from people who haven't actually changed their act in 10 years getting mad that nobody's laughing at their 'provocative humor' anymore, as if sensitivity is the issue, and not the fact that that they're the one playing it safe.
As you can see from like half the comments on here, a lot of people see this sentiment and use it as an excuse to be shitty. Which makes sense, because this monologue is the same exact “hurr durr political correctness is ruining comedy” thing that has-been always whine about. Seinfeld whined about it, but nobody gives a shit about him anymore. Chappelle whined about it, and he’s cribbing jokes from incel forums. Jeselnik doesn’t whine, and he’s on a 14-month worldwide tour.
If the preconceptions being challenged progress society, this is good. Comedy challenging prejudice as its means of being challenging is great. Comedy being offensive can also be fine, for example as a trans woman I have no issue with trans jokes *IF* they are actually funny, thought out, and come from a place of actually understanding trans people - on the other hand, shit like Gervais and Chapelle is derivative, unfunny, and just uses a group of people as a prop for cheap laughs.
Agree with the sentiment, but there is an ever shifting line between loud and rowdy, edgy comedy and jokes that flat out offend. It's got to be considered, joke by joke, often depending on the speaker, audience, format and era of the performance. It's finding that razor-sharp edge to walk on, not falling to either side of soft church jokes or minority slams.
And his henchman Iggy Catalpa, of course. One of the funniest things I’ve ever read was David Cross responding to Larry the Cable Guy calling him “politically correct.”
That’s like a third of the comments. This show was good for its day, but this clip shows just how lazy and hacky people whining about how “you can’t say anything any more” really are.
He puts his all into the voice acting in Duckman and -really- has some moments where he's just pouring his heart into it (no matter how right or wrong Duckman actually is about the point). Was a great show but never hooked people the way it should have
After he got "TV big" from Seinfeld ( he had already been on Broadway), he played the lead, Albert in Bye, Bye Birdie in a network primetime special. I tell you, he can sing and dance with such joy that it's clear he belongs on stage. A revelation.
Tbh when I first started watching it I thought he was Danny devito, which I thought was a good thing in regards to his acting chops. But then again, I can't sit still long enough to watch a movie let alone be a film critic.
Old imgur was toxic at times but it had genuine comedy talent. So much wit in the comments. Now it's sanitized. Maga fuckwits but also many funny users beside them were replaced with tatooed cat moms sharing adhd memes and politics, with genderqueerness standing in for personality and cat mishaps for humor. I used to pick fights with alt-right and magats but when they spent their dumb arguments they would just get pissed and leave. But these militant misandrists will gang up on you and soak you
Never before have I seen the history (and present) of Imgur so perfectly and concisely encapsulated. The comment section of Imgur used to be creative and hilarious. Now it's just morons mindlessly copying and pasting eachothers' comments over and over and over again, like they're informing anyone of anything that hasn't already been mercilessly drilled into their brains
in their seething hostility and nasty, hateful insults. I don't back down but afterwards the feeling is same like when I was bullied at school. I don't need that but when I see bs I gotta call it. So I stay out of trouble and off imgur pretty much. I like to check on Metapathos posts but most of the rest is pretty dull. Cats, dogs and culture wars. I think I'll replay Fallout NV instead.
You sound like someone’s grandpa whining about kids these days. I’ll take modern Imgur over a dozen attack chopper memes reaching the front page any day.
You should go see Jeselnik’s newest special if he comes to your town. Offensive as shit, but he also calls out those fools who whine about comedy being sanitized
Jeselnik humour is "offensive" but it's also designed to be absurdist and formulaic to a point that the offensiveness is pretty well sanitised. Jeselnik makes an absurd joke about dropping a baby down 3 flights of stairs in a calculated way that builds up in absurdity as it goes. He doesn't just get on stage and shriek about how the gays have somehow oppressed him and then get all pissy himself when everyone calls him out for shit tier jokes made for dumbshit redcaps.
spoken like someone who hasnt been on the receiving end of dehumanzing "jokes" your entire life. theres a fine line between making a racy joke and just putting down a minority. id rather be bored than feel like the audience and performer want to lynch me
well sorry if i misunderstood your comment then but "you cant joke about anything anymore!" is the kind of shit people say when they're upset that minorities stand up for themselves. and if you can tell the difference between a joke and an insult, then the "keep it polite" crowd isn't really talking to you. we care about the "jokes" that are poorly disguised calls to violence
Exactly, those aren't actual jokes, and those people aren't comedians. They're racists hurling racial slurs. Jokes are meant to punch up, not punch down.
I challenge my dad all the time with his stupid anti-trans humor he gets from far right youtube. This is ultimately wise, but it's a primitive argument that can be twisted in bad faith, missing that humor being used to punch down isn't humor, it's bullying. There's no challenge in that.
Satire is supposed to punch up. Satire that punches down is bullying. Comedy can throw punches in any direction, and if the jokes are funny, they'll get laughs. Great comedians make sure that if their subjects are people, they're in on the joke. Like Matt Rife dunking on that one person in the wheelchair, that person was HOWLING, because they got to be in on the joke. And it wasn't satire, it was just classic comedy crowd work. This distinction matters.
My dad likes "comedians" that make fun of people that "don't know the honest definition of what a woman is". That make an career out of attacking trans people and call it comedy. Dave Chappelle is not that.
Chappelle is a hack who turned transphobe for money, and what’s worse, he doesn’t even have his own voice any more. One of his biggest jokes of a recent special was “hurr durr my wallet my choice,” word for word some incel forum shit.
The issue is that bullying isn't comedy. True, sincere hearted comedy, isn't punching down regardless of who it's aimed at. In a reasonable society of "thinking adults", they understand that a joke "at the expense" of a group is not intended to marginalise that group; because such a society wouldn't marginalise in the first place.
However, too many disguise prejudice as "comedy" when it's not, it's prejudice, and the only ones laughing are the bigots.
Then someone makes a business model out of prejudice branded as "comedy". Then they gather a bigoted fan base that all collectively agree it's "comedy". Then non-bigots say "That shit ain't funny, boo." Then bigots come up with an argument based on something like this here post to say "Don't cancel our comedy!" Then we're at now, where I'm saying that the argument is ultimately right, but for it to be useful today, it just needs to be a lil' more twist-proof.
This is punching down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEQoV1EgDM making a trans joke and saying “oh you don’t like that? But do you understand this hatred is what it’s like for a black man? Where’s your outrage, or is a black man using the n word not offensive?” Is not.
It’s a bad argument, whether from a racist or a duck. Comedy is funny because it subverts expectations (like my phone _not_ correcting when I mistyped “duck”)… if you expect the comic to be polite, but instead they’re an asshole, it’s funny (but they’re still an asshole). If you expect banter and puns, but get social commentary, that’s funny (and you got a sociology lesson). If you’re expecting one-liners, but get witty wordplay and surreal observations, that’s just Mitch Hedberg on a Tuesday.
Comedy has only one purpose, to make people laugh. Anyone ranting about the importance of "comedy challenging the status quo" is covering for their act not landing.
honestly, those comedians are the biggest babies. they want to be "controversial" but hate "controversy". Only they get to talk with that microphone. The audience responding back in disagreement makes them feel bullied. Cowards.
these are the repetitive multimillionaires who cry "cancel culture" in their sets. It's not enough for you to be successful, the public at large shouldn't have an opinion other than favorable.
Satire works when its funny. Just look at conservative "comedy" to see how cringe it gets when it's not. If it doesn't land, don't blame the audience for being "too woke" and make your set into a public rant about cancel culture.
and sometimes that thinking is "what a dildo". Then that same comedian goes on to perform a monolog about cancel culture because they want to be controversial but can't stomach career controversy.
The argument, I feel, is that you... Can punch down. For a wealthy, white, famous comedian, literally any other group would be punching down. Does that mean they're just not allowed to be a comedian anymore? "Aaahhh... Sorry mate, after your last tour, you're now too famous to be a comedian anymore; check your privilege at the door"
A reasonable society should have the capacity to understand use of a caricature for comedy, vs intensifying a stereotype with malice. Hence "thinking adults"
Unless you are the current richest person on the planet, there is always someone to punch up at. Politicians, Elon musk, Putin, capitalism in general, fascism in all it's forms, there is always someone or something that has gotten too big for it's britches and needs some jesting.
comedy doesn't exist in a vacuum. if it perpetuates oppression and bigotry it's harmful and people are going to get reasonably upset about that. i don't think it's that hard to do humor without being harmful, and if someone genuinely can't figure out how to do that, no, they probably shouldn't be a comedian
Of course you can. Stewart Lee, Jim Jeffries (older specials are better), James Acaster. Punching up isn't relative to the comedian. It's relative to the audience.
Anthony Jeselnik said it perfectly on his current tour. “I hate cancel culture. Cancel culture is the worst. That’s my impression of a shitty comedian.” He opened his show with 10+ minutes of jokes about trans people, in Portland, and you know what? It was fucking funny because he didn’t punch down.
People find it difficult to separate the ideas of “punching down” and “making fun of”; the latter being that the subject of the joke is voluntarily along for the ride (when done well!). Inclusive humour includes laughing at everyone, together.
It's up to a fundamental difference between true comedy and violence and hate disguised as comedy for the benefit of the prejudiced. "Why do gingers suck at jazz; coz they've got no soul" Vs "Man anyone else sick of fucking gingers *audience cheers* right? They're just so fucking annoying and *sneering guffaw* they won't get into heaven because they're soulless fuckers *audience hoot like baboons*"
You poke fun at people who revel in their arrogance. Go check out George Carlin or Robin Williams. There are LOTS of gags you can do as a wealthy white guy without being a dick-bag.
But that is the point of comedy. It makes no apologies for its content. It is supppsed to have no lines it cant cross. As soon as there is a line, that’s when you lose your society.
Right, and also, you cant tell where the line is until you cross it. And the question begins as to who gets a pass? And who does not? why was it okay then, but it is not now? Should they apologize? Or it’s in the past? I want freedom of speech to be limitless. They’ll have to answer for their speech. Limiting it smells like oppression to me.
If you think comedians shouldn’t be “limited” because of free speech, you don’t understand free speech. Nobody is calling for government censorship of comedy. You demanding that shitty behavior go unchallenged because it infringes on the comic’s “free speech” by that same standard infringes on other people’s right to complain, and boycott shitty behavior.
PballQhead
So is nobody gonna mention King Chicken (the evil genius antagonist) is Tim Curry? SUCH a great show.
Blakeadelic
Omg just last night I had a dream where I asked someone if they had heard of this show. Weird coincidence. What does it all mean
B3N15
I agree with this but there's a difference between humor that offends and humor that is offensive. If your goal is to simply mock and offend, your not being clever or challenging, you just being an asshole.
KiwiGameDev
“Comedy should be used to challenge” on this I agree, but that should be directed towards the status quo, use it to shine a light on things that thrive on peoples ignorance, systems that rely on people not knowing them. When you use it to “challenge” statements like “I should be allowed to live openly without being lynched” you’re just a fascist with a laugh track
Saigon333
Yeah, sure. But I usually hear this line from people who haven't actually changed their act in 10 years getting mad that nobody's laughing at their 'provocative humor' anymore, as if sensitivity is the issue, and not the fact that that they're the one playing it safe.
wadatahmydamie
As you can see from like half the comments on here, a lot of people see this sentiment and use it as an excuse to be shitty. Which makes sense, because this monologue is the same exact “hurr durr political correctness is ruining comedy” thing that has-been always whine about. Seinfeld whined about it, but nobody gives a shit about him anymore. Chappelle whined about it, and he’s cribbing jokes from incel forums. Jeselnik doesn’t whine, and he’s on a 14-month worldwide tour.
sloppyjoeska
i did a duckman recently! Check out my art if you dig it: https://www.instagram.com/lord_of_misrule/
sloppyjoeska
i just did a duckman! like it, check out my work: https://www.instagram.com/lord_of_misrule/
Shifuede
turdswindler9000
Thought I recognized the voice!
tooomanystevesgotbanned
Mocking power is satire, mocking the weak is bullying.
VioletCatastrophe
If the preconceptions being challenged progress society, this is good. Comedy challenging prejudice as its means of being challenging is great. Comedy being offensive can also be fine, for example as a trans woman I have no issue with trans jokes *IF* they are actually funny, thought out, and come from a place of actually understanding trans people - on the other hand, shit like Gervais and Chapelle is derivative, unfunny, and just uses a group of people as a prop for cheap laughs.
VioletCatastrophe
Here's a good example of someone calling out this bullshit and actually being funny. https://youtu.be/adh0KGmgmQw?si=i63XTTHueYGtJ3dA&t=203
IamAlbertPotato
Duckman was the absolute shit
slowlyredeemed
I still randomly break out the line, "you want some of these raisins I found in the chicken coop"
sloppyjoeska
i recently did a duckman! if you like it, check out my other work: https://www.instagram.com/lord_of_misrule/
cousteau
I like how there's a guy whose sole job is to hold a cane to comically pull bad comedians out of stage.
Buttholesandsewingneedles
"Careful son i think the safety's off"
SkeletorOverlordofEvil
Agree with the sentiment, but there is an ever shifting line between loud and rowdy, edgy comedy and jokes that flat out offend. It's got to be considered, joke by joke, often depending on the speaker, audience, format and era of the performance. It's finding that razor-sharp edge to walk on, not falling to either side of soft church jokes or minority slams.
acuteavocado7
youre missing the part where they dont care and thats the point. they want to offend
Co1dNight
Duckman was a great show.
aristera
Fun fact: Jason Alexander did this voice for his audition thinking it was going to be a one time thing.
KierCalhen
God I wish this shit would have sunk in back then....
Dirtheavy
King Chicken! ( I watched this show every week)
wadatahmydamie
And his henchman Iggy Catalpa, of course. One of the funniest things I’ve ever read was David Cross responding to Larry the Cable Guy calling him “politically correct.”
williammurderfacemurderfacemurderface
Were you checking his wallet, like you forgot?
MonStar1203
Haha I think I remember watching this on USA network?
somethingstupidandclever
Yeah. I think weird science was right before it as well
KatinaChoovansky
It wasn't ahead of it's time, he was addressing the PC culture that was prevalent in the 90s.
SomeDetroitGuy
"I'm sad I can't just scream racial slurs and get laughs" is a shit take.
wadatahmydamie
That’s like a third of the comments. This show was good for its day, but this clip shows just how lazy and hacky people whining about how “you can’t say anything any more” really are.
jennym123
Yeah, you could say that shit back in the day. It was just as terrible and wrong back then.
wadatahmydamie
Yeah, and that’s why some comedians saw their work age so much better than others. Nobody gives a shit about Andrew Dice Clay post-1996
EventuallyASkeleton
...Imagine Elmer Fudd raping Porky Pig.
wadatahmydamie
Carlin was a legend for a reason
EventuallyASkeleton
Was, is, will be. Sadly a lot of the non-angry bits go overlooked now.
Taxian
Man, Jason Alexander put some oomph into this monologue.
kawkamawaq
Probably because he meant it.
SarcasticComment
The sea was angry that day, my friends!
LincolnMarkLT
Here's another good one https://youtu.be/blppKS-nz9g
znuff
Just saw Leo on Netflix and I was like, "wait, that's George!!"
InnsmouthTourist
He puts his all into the voice acting in Duckman and -really- has some moments where he's just pouring his heart into it (no matter how right or wrong Duckman actually is about the point). Was a great show but never hooked people the way it should have
spidermenz
I knew I knew that voice
shitheadtookmyname
People don't realize he was the big hire for Seinfeld bc he was a famous Broadway actor already
VincitQuiSeVincit
he's a hell of an actor. he's mostly only known for Seinfeld, but his other work is equally brilliant.
pullingsixty
Weirdly, his role in Pretty Woman as the asshole lawyer, was standout for me.
breadedfishstrip
Ja5per
Whaaaaa??
LucidPariah
Was the Only thing he ever touched that I enjoyed
Shifuede
He's had a Star Trek cameo.
Snooj
He was really good in Pretty Woman. Hateable, but magnificently so.
OppaGangnamPyle
Amazing back handed compliment!
cardinal29
After he got "TV big" from Seinfeld ( he had already been on Broadway), he played the lead, Albert in Bye, Bye Birdie in a network primetime special. I tell you, he can sing and dance with such joy that it's clear he belongs on stage. A revelation.
bangbangbangbangbangbangbangban
Seinfeld?
LucidPariah
Nope
bangbangbangbangbangbangbangban
Tbh when I first started watching it I thought he was Danny devito, which I thought was a good thing in regards to his acting chops. But then again, I can't sit still long enough to watch a movie let alone be a film critic.
Mewmus
Unfortunately there are too many pussies/wimps/little bitches that cant handle edgy humor and ruin it for everyone
FapitalistPig
Old imgur was toxic at times but it had genuine comedy talent. So much wit in the comments. Now it's sanitized. Maga fuckwits but also many funny users beside them were replaced with tatooed cat moms sharing adhd memes and politics, with genderqueerness standing in for personality and cat mishaps for humor. I used to pick fights with alt-right and magats but when they spent their dumb arguments they would just get pissed and leave. But these militant misandrists will gang up on you and soak you
SkynetWithAPoopKnife
Never before have I seen the history (and present) of Imgur so perfectly and concisely encapsulated. The comment section of Imgur used to be creative and hilarious. Now it's just morons mindlessly copying and pasting eachothers' comments over and over and over again, like they're informing anyone of anything that hasn't already been mercilessly drilled into their brains
FapitalistPig
in their seething hostility and nasty, hateful insults. I don't back down but afterwards the feeling is same like when I was bullied at school. I don't need that but when I see bs I gotta call it. So I stay out of trouble and off imgur pretty much. I like to check on Metapathos posts but most of the rest is pretty dull. Cats, dogs and culture wars. I think I'll replay Fallout NV instead.
wadatahmydamie
You sound like someone’s grandpa whining about kids these days. I’ll take modern Imgur over a dozen attack chopper memes reaching the front page any day.
FapitalistPig
No, no, grandpa appreciates you youngins.
wadatahmydamie
You should go see Jeselnik’s newest special if he comes to your town. Offensive as shit, but he also calls out those fools who whine about comedy being sanitized
Sen7ryGun
Jeselnik humour is "offensive" but it's also designed to be absurdist and formulaic to a point that the offensiveness is pretty well sanitised. Jeselnik makes an absurd joke about dropping a baby down 3 flights of stairs in a calculated way that builds up in absurdity as it goes. He doesn't just get on stage and shriek about how the gays have somehow oppressed him and then get all pissy himself when everyone calls him out for shit tier jokes made for dumbshit redcaps.
Onlyhereforthelaughs
A-FUCKING-MEN! I'd rather be offended than bored.
acuteavocado7
spoken like someone who hasnt been on the receiving end of dehumanzing "jokes" your entire life. theres a fine line between making a racy joke and just putting down a minority. id rather be bored than feel like the audience and performer want to lynch me
Onlyhereforthelaughs
Well yeah, jokes are supposed to be funny, not veiled racism.
acuteavocado7
well sorry if i misunderstood your comment then but "you cant joke about anything anymore!" is the kind of shit people say when they're upset that minorities stand up for themselves. and if you can tell the difference between a joke and an insult, then the "keep it polite" crowd isn't really talking to you. we care about the "jokes" that are poorly disguised calls to violence
Onlyhereforthelaughs
I appreciate the clarification.
Onlyhereforthelaughs
Exactly, those aren't actual jokes, and those people aren't comedians. They're racists hurling racial slurs. Jokes are meant to punch up, not punch down.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
I challenge my dad all the time with his stupid anti-trans humor he gets from far right youtube. This is ultimately wise, but it's a primitive argument that can be twisted in bad faith, missing that humor being used to punch down isn't humor, it's bullying. There's no challenge in that.
Lun4ticH1gh
Satire is supposed to punch up. Satire that punches down is bullying. Comedy can throw punches in any direction, and if the jokes are funny, they'll get laughs. Great comedians make sure that if their subjects are people, they're in on the joke. Like Matt Rife dunking on that one person in the wheelchair, that person was HOWLING, because they got to be in on the joke. And it wasn't satire, it was just classic comedy crowd work. This distinction matters.
DanielAsparagus
If you’re Ben Shapiro it’s humor in bad faith. If it’s Dave chapelle I’d argue that you’re upvoting this or denouncing chapelle in bad faith.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
My dad likes "comedians" that make fun of people that "don't know the honest definition of what a woman is". That make an career out of attacking trans people and call it comedy. Dave Chappelle is not that.
DanielAsparagus
Oh boy have I got a treat for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEQoV1EgDM
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
*sees daily wire*
*closes YouTube*
DanielAsparagus
Oh dude your dad is gonna see this so hard. It’s the most cringe shit I’ve seen in awhile.
wadatahmydamie
Chappelle is a hack who turned transphobe for money, and what’s worse, he doesn’t even have his own voice any more. One of his biggest jokes of a recent special was “hurr durr my wallet my choice,” word for word some incel forum shit.
notacobra
The issue is that bullying isn't comedy.
True, sincere hearted comedy, isn't punching down regardless of who it's aimed at. In a reasonable society of "thinking adults", they understand that a joke "at the expense" of a group is not intended to marginalise that group; because such a society wouldn't marginalise in the first place.
However, too many disguise prejudice as "comedy" when it's not, it's prejudice, and the only ones laughing are the bigots.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
Then someone makes a business model out of prejudice branded as "comedy". Then they gather a bigoted fan base that all collectively agree it's "comedy". Then non-bigots say "That shit ain't funny, boo." Then bigots come up with an argument based on something like this here post to say "Don't cancel our comedy!" Then we're at now, where I'm saying that the argument is ultimately right, but for it to be useful today, it just needs to be a lil' more twist-proof.
namtrohs
Don't necessarily disagree, but far too often people who punch down use this argument.
DanielAsparagus
This is punching down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEQoV1EgDM making a trans joke and saying “oh you don’t like that? But do you understand this hatred is what it’s like for a black man? Where’s your outrage, or is a black man using the n word not offensive?” Is not.
Mechman13
I have no idea what argument you're trying to make
Tumescentpie
Also these 90s TV shows didn't predict anything nor were they ahead of their time. Shit hasn't really changed
Tarmaccian
It’s a bad argument, whether from a racist or a duck. Comedy is funny because it subverts expectations (like my phone _not_ correcting when I mistyped “duck”)… if you expect the comic to be polite, but instead they’re an asshole, it’s funny (but they’re still an asshole). If you expect banter and puns, but get social commentary, that’s funny (and you got a sociology lesson). If you’re expecting one-liners, but get witty wordplay and surreal observations, that’s just Mitch Hedberg on a Tuesday.
TicklishOwl
Punch in all directions.
Wyndynwyre
Comedy has only one purpose, to make people laugh. Anyone ranting about the importance of "comedy challenging the status quo" is covering for their act not landing.
SarcasticComment
honestly, those comedians are the biggest babies. they want to be "controversial" but hate "controversy". Only they get to talk with that microphone. The audience responding back in disagreement makes them feel bullied. Cowards.
SarcasticComment
these are the repetitive multimillionaires who cry "cancel culture" in their sets. It's not enough for you to be successful, the public at large shouldn't have an opinion other than favorable.
deletable
You are gunna love discovering Political Satire! It’s like comedy, but with a larger purpose.
Wyndynwyre
Satire works when its funny. Just look at conservative "comedy" to see how cringe it gets when it's not. If it doesn't land, don't blame the audience for being "too woke" and make your set into a public rant about cancel culture.
Bonesy84
There are many forms of comedy and the people behind them all put a ton of work into their act. Some of them are supposed to make you think.
SarcasticComment
and sometimes that thinking is "what a dildo". Then that same comedian goes on to perform a monolog about cancel culture because they want to be controversial but can't stomach career controversy.
notacobra
The argument, I feel, is that you... Can punch down.
For a wealthy, white, famous comedian, literally any other group would be punching down. Does that mean they're just not allowed to be a comedian anymore?
"Aaahhh... Sorry mate, after your last tour, you're now too famous to be a comedian anymore; check your privilege at the door"
A reasonable society should have the capacity to understand use of a caricature for comedy, vs intensifying a stereotype with malice. Hence "thinking adults"
Ultratoxic
Unless you are the current richest person on the planet, there is always someone to punch up at. Politicians, Elon musk, Putin, capitalism in general, fascism in all it's forms, there is always someone or something that has gotten too big for it's britches and needs some jesting.
Allrighty
Consider that not all jokes have to hurt someone or be about people other than yourself.
ChaoticGoodTransGirl
comedy doesn't exist in a vacuum. if it perpetuates oppression and bigotry it's harmful and people are going to get reasonably upset about that. i don't think it's that hard to do humor without being harmful, and if someone genuinely can't figure out how to do that, no, they probably shouldn't be a comedian
ReleaseTheBeeees
Of course you can. Stewart Lee, Jim Jeffries (older specials are better), James Acaster. Punching up isn't relative to the comedian. It's relative to the audience.
wadatahmydamie
Anthony Jeselnik said it perfectly on his current tour. “I hate cancel culture. Cancel culture is the worst. That’s my impression of a shitty comedian.” He opened his show with 10+ minutes of jokes about trans people, in Portland, and you know what? It was fucking funny because he didn’t punch down.
TeeweeAndSmashboy
People find it difficult to separate the ideas of “punching down” and “making fun of”; the latter being that the subject of the joke is voluntarily along for the ride (when done well!). Inclusive humour includes laughing at everyone, together.
notacobra
It's up to a fundamental difference between true comedy and violence and hate disguised as comedy for the benefit of the prejudiced.
"Why do gingers suck at jazz; coz they've got no soul"
Vs
"Man anyone else sick of fucking gingers *audience cheers* right? They're just so fucking annoying and *sneering guffaw* they won't get into heaven because they're soulless fuckers *audience hoot like baboons*"
TeeweeAndSmashboy
Hahahaha gingers! You’re so right!!! Hahahahaha
CongratsYouAreHereNow
It’s already difficult enough to get his wines!!!!!!!!
Ronelyn
You poke fun at people who revel in their arrogance. Go check out George Carlin or Robin Williams. There are LOTS of gags you can do as a wealthy white guy without being a dick-bag.
GCRust
Robin and George never punched down. They punched sideways.
CongratsYouAreHereNow
There are premises comedians like Dave chapelle have taken heat for that Carlin would have also made jokes from
jfalconic0
Eh, Chappelle in particular is not looking like a great example at the moment. His provocative bullshit is not as meaningful as Carlin's, either.
cluelessatdis3
But that is the point of comedy. It makes no apologies for its content. It is supppsed to have no lines it cant cross. As soon as there is a line, that’s when you lose your society.
dingybasement350
We live in a society.
Rosfmmmhzdrozzley
I always thought it was about toeing the line. Get as close to it without crossing as possible. If you do cross it, prepare for backlash. It's an art
cluelessatdis3
Right, and also, you cant tell where the line is until you cross it. And the question begins as to who gets a pass? And who does not? why was it okay then, but it is not now? Should they apologize? Or it’s in the past? I want freedom of speech to be limitless. They’ll have to answer for their speech. Limiting it smells like oppression to me.
wadatahmydamie
If you think comedians shouldn’t be “limited” because of free speech, you don’t understand free speech. Nobody is calling for government censorship of comedy. You demanding that shitty behavior go unchallenged because it infringes on the comic’s “free speech” by that same standard infringes on other people’s right to complain, and boycott shitty behavior.