Beginnersmindscape
77925
1122
9
Aug 28, 2023 7:45 AM
Beginnersmindscape
77925
1122
9
DaggettOFlannigan
Lobbying (bribing) is way cheaper than I expected
justme1961a
I’m not from the US, but I would have thought that the NRA would have made this list. No?
kjbopp
the NRA has to be next on that list
rakas90
It's hilariously bad because the industries of those top companies on that list are explicitly the ones holding the U.S. back from actually using its utterly massive wealth from improving the country.
Catitapillar
Is there a reason gun lobbying is not on the list?
iamrunningoutofideas
"And it's not even close" - proceeds to show a chart where it is very much close
mohavewolfpup
Whatever do you mean? You mean the same pack of trash that feasted on the 2008 housing crisis and set off untold misery to this day for proper home ownership is not reputable? The same garbage that would sell a place like this? https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2993-S-Willow-Dr-Lehi-UT-84043/2056479412_zpid/ All yours for such a low price and don’t even think of entering the garage currently being investigated!
HeShallKnowYourWaysAsIfBornToThem
All the "middle men" industries lobby...so that you must use their services. The world doesn't need real estate agents nor do they need car salespeople.
RoyalOss
Isnt housing a problem in most of the western countries? Maybe because of the 2008 crash (less building) + low interest (investing) + declining sizes of households (lots of singles living alone)
badgesweedontneednostinkingbadges
I would think, to keep things on the same plane, that the "Blue Cross/Blue Shield" should be combined with all other insurers, and "Facebook" should be a combination of social media sites. Otherwise, you're comparing an entire industry against individual companies.
barnwolf
Big oil isn't even on the list?
digitalagriculture
Housing should not be an investment. Unfortunately, decades of public policy have encouraged that point of view and now the government will do everything it can to prop up house prices, extending this bubble even longer and making the inevitable pop that much more damaging.
DSREX
Chamber of Commerce is not your friend, those people have fucked over America so hard. Because they lobby on the local level for the interests of local businesses. Ever wonder why a project got green lit that was really dumb or fucked over a bunch of other people. Look no further than the friendly people at your local Chamber of Commerce.
autodidacticcortex
And on a longer timescale, wage stagnation was enabled by sending the jobs overseas. Unions need paying headcount so they can afford to play in the battleground (court room).
greggbert
to be clear they only care about volume so I guess you can thank them for record low interest rates?
AxelBeingCivil
Oh, not just that. Real estate is one of the easiest investments. Just as with anything else, members of Congress often profit from their decisions.
Rendova
The homeless can't even get into the House.
usrnamesRhard
1/2 of the biggest spenders are healthcare. We need lobby reform so we can get healthcare reform
Gdan79
Wait are we ignoring #2, the government lobbies itself?
buffalowineguy
2guy2
Is that why you can have an empty house for 240 days and not pay taxes? So these companies can just let houses stay empty and sell slowly manufacturing a supply shortage? Would explain all the empty houses in Orem utah that are not on the market.
NVGoddesscottage
Get money out of politics. Even if you just read this so you recognize an opportunity to jump on let’s do it: wolf-PAC.com
HurricaneShade
Well they haven't helped me.. my house has been for sale since May, and we are pulling it off the market soon.. the housing market is crap...
mardukkur
In my area the housing market is still hot as shit. Not as good as last year but still houses are turning over within a week or 2 at or above ask.
Ragabash1
Sorry to hear that. Market by me homes last maybe 2 days with 20 to 30k overbids every time.
HurricaneShade
We've dropped 45,000 ... had it sold early on and the deal fell thru because the other person's house couldn't sell..
JoanneVanderMuff
Where are you located? If marketed and priced well it should sell.
HurricaneShade
Middle of Michigan.. Morley area
HurricaneShade
Listed at $325,000 we've already dropped by 45 grand
HurricaneShade
Middle of Michigan
codenameRadical
That's a factor. Another factor is build volume and density. A really major factor, though, is commercialization of residential property. I'm talking about AirBnB. If I can pull $100 a night on something with a mortgage of $1k, and potential rent of $1.3k, then the "value" of the building becomes the equivalent of $3k/mo. I would pay whatever price at or below that level, because it's worth it. AirBnB slum hotels need to be banned in every major city.
codenameRadical
As an aside, I would also support a regulation stating that nobody can own and rent a house, except in noted tourist areas I guess, and that renting requires multi units.
codenameRadical
Also, corporations buying up residential property. That's a big deal. Regulation should deal with that. Houses should be owned by people, with rare exception [charities, noted tourist areas, etc.].
yourmomsfavoriteplayer
Why is the US Chamber of Commerce lobbying the US government? I thought the CoC was a government entity which now I assume is inaccurate
afatrollofmyown
The CoC is basically a "union" but made of the boss class to keep workers down.
aimfireready
It looks like an agency name, but that would be the “Department of Commerce”. This is simply the national level org repping your local CoC.
xmaneds
correct, was never a government entity
SayRamrod
next, guess what moms for liberty do not support..
basiccricket8444
They do that on purpose. It is a lobbying group for large corporations. They write the bills to make the congressman's job nice and easy
ClifSkaylor
Realistically, every large lobbying group will offer "draft language" to the lawmakers. One egregious example that came to light was Bush's (I think it was him anyway) Energy Policy. Apparently copied verbatim from Exxon's "suggestions".
alwaysthecheesegrater
TIL. This seems... important.
nclu
Real estate agents are often some of the worst NIMBYs too. Their commissions are enormous. A giant rent-seeking industry.
nclu
For those that wonder why they'd be NIMBYs. Developers that put up new apartments tend to rent them out, meaning they can't muscle in on transaction fees for selling units. They're also against a perceived lower cost per unit, once again, commissions per sale falling. And finally, they tend to be invested in "neighborhood character" and just don't like any changes that aren't just a mansion remodel (more commission per sale again).
landbaronness42
How exactly do real estate agents control housing prices? This entire post is weird.
nclu
It's way more complicated than simply "control" of prices. They are fiercely territorial though and collect somewhat fixed percentage commissions. They tend to block housing which means more limited supply and higher prices. They also have a lot of sway over both what bids are made and are accepted and have incentives for higher prices on both sides (did you know that the agent assisting the buyer is actually considered an agent of the selling agent and does not have your interest at heart?!)
JoanneVanderMuff
Lol who are you? None of this is true.
nclu
They pour this money into politics for a number of reasons. Number one is to protect their license monopoly on the industry and compensation structure as well as barriers to entry, etc. Additionally, as it is a very flexible schedule kind of job, agents are very involved in local politics, including running for office. Check out how many RE agents are candidates on your local ballots. Similar for card dealership owners.
JCygnus
I am all for making lobbying illegal.
Tom4te
If those numbers are right it looks like Pharma lobby gate keeps affordable healthcare for all Americans for a measly 25 million $ a year...
R100GSPD
World's best return on investment is a congressman
DigitalPizza
Tbf, they don't need much. Republicans are already pretty much sold on the idea of letting people they think are inferior die.
AxelBeingCivil
Bribes are never anywhere near as big as you think they are. That said, it's a little more complicated than just dollars spent on lobbying. Many lobbying groups give representatives cushy or even outright sinecure positions after they retire as a kind of deferred bribe, essentially cashing in their political connections. Likewise, there's probably a good deal of insider trading going on, but that's almost certainly masked.
Ninjainslippers
The promise of a cushy job post-politics is an extremely effective way to bribe a politician. They only need to target the high-level partisans, who then make sure their party votes in lock step with them. Maybe they even make a couple deals to get some votes from across the aisle. It's infuriating.
AxelBeingCivil
It also doesn't hurt that a lot of politicos do actually genuinely believe the stuff they're peddling.
TezuNii
Pharma 25.95, hospitals 24.44, and health insurer 23.62, so around 74 million just from 3 companies.
saxon2060
Those three industries aren't just three companies... And 74 million is *nothing* compared to their revenues.
BluePaladin42
Our lives are bought cheap.
Ninjainslippers
This is just what they report for tax purposes. Dark money PAC contributions, donations to charities that happen to be aligned with the interests of certain politicians, promises of cushy "advisor" jobs after leaving office, etc are all unreported and do the heavy lifting. The reported lobbying $$ is probably just the people who draft legislation and talking points for politicians.
PossumPoop
Reported $25M. Surely there is significantly more greasing those palms.
Ninjainslippers
To get a real idea, you'd need to do some forensic accounting. Where did their charitable donations go? How many former politicians are employed in high-paying jobs not doing shit? There are lots of ways to influence politicians that don't have to be reported as "lobbying."
alwaysthecheesegrater
It doesn't seem too expensive for corporations to buy a handful of politicians to sway opinions.
gtawGeezus
I’d also not be surprised if the money they invest into lobbying isn’t also a massive tax write off….
MerriMod
It functionally is. Lobbyists get all kinds of tax loopholes and financial kickbacks/giveaways put into legislation, so it's as much actively making profits for them as it is avoiding other costs. So long as they can keep buying politicians for a pittance as they have been, it's essentially an infinite money engine for them.
MerriMod
That's the part that especially bugs me about it. Betraying the people and selling out their authority is bad enough, but the fact that they're doing it for fucking chump change is an extra layer of insult. I've seen politician donation logs that are clearly bribes from lobbyists which basically shuffle out to being a buck-and-change per constituent backstabbed.
bearatrooper
It is notoriously easy to buy politicians. They are super inexpensive actually.
HIVp0sit1ve69
Best I can do is three fiddy.
bearatrooper
Sold. Who's rights would you like to trample?
HIVp0sit1ve69
Well we usually allow women and children first...
MarkiusFox
Oh, it's worse. Here's 2023's numbers thusfar of the top 20:
Lp57
I endorse Nation Assassins of Realtors.
ALpBeck
You know we're f*cked when the Realtors are spending more than the pharmaceutical lobby.
ThePunishersVengefulBrother
They already got what they want.
roflipop
It’s a who is who of people out to screw America.
Eldis
Ah, legalised bribes.
Bubbells
Was expecting more military in there
jesuisgur
Different budget I guess...
ghettobutter
Sauce?
kittyfajitas
Looks like it's from opensecrets.org
MarkiusFox
Bingo!
ghettobutter
Thanks @kittyfajitas
MarkiusFox
And numbers from 1998 to 2023:
barnwolf
Big oil is surprisingly far down the list. So much for them secretly controlling all the politicians. We should have been worried about the medical companies instead.
PPBoyington
No NRA ?
MarkiusFox
They are too far down the list to be in the Top 20.
congressionalbitch
Even the NRA doesn’t have this kind of money
OOSpaceDwarf
the NRA actually doesnt spend that much money on lobbying directly. They prefer the "schmooze and buddy up" approach.
MarkiusFox
Even then, the NRA is chump change. Compare the three. https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/national-rifle-assn/summary?i00000082">https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/national-rifle-assn/summ">d=D00000">00000082">https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/national-rifle-assn/summary?id=D000000082 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/national-assn-of-realtors/summary?id=D000000062 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/us-chamber-of-commerce/summary?id=D000019798
TalleyZorah
Why? What specifically are they lobbying for, and to what degree does this affect housing prices compared to banking practices/regulation, gentrification, rich people buying multiple homes, city planning, developers buying single family homes over asking price in cash to build townhouses, companies like McDonald's buying up land as real estate investments, etc etc etc. Housing is a complex (heh) problem... not saying this isn't an issue, just need to know more to have an appropriate opinion.
87cubed
This is the question here: Why? Just throwing out a statement and some numbers doesn't automatically build a bridge to your assertion. That's like saying, "Look at all the money the Teamsters union has and how big they are, and we wonder why cars are so expensive."
Micro2112
Top of my head, changes to housing density, taxes on 3rd+ houses: crippling landlords, changes on foreign buyers: stop investor builders,
mardukkur
The biggest barrier to housing development in desirable areas and reduced home prices are existing homeowners and nothing else is even close. These are the constituents that politicians are responding to with shit like restrictive zoning and all the rest, with the goal of maintaining or increasing existing housing value to the benefit of homeowners. Easiest way to get turfed out of office is to enact a policy that hurts home values.
StillNotYouTube
They lobby to keep their standard 6% commission and to make it easier to buy a house. They don't care about price, just closing deals.
87cubed
I'm not sure what your experience is that leads you to this conclusion, but the 6% thing has nothing to do with lobbying, or Congress. It's also not a guaranteed number, for either the buyer or the seller agent.
jamandtoast
Why do Realtors want higher housing prices? Sure, they'll make more on each sale, but wouldn't less sales mean they would male less overall? Is it just that they want to cut out going directly to builders? Renters aren't paying a Realtor. I don't understand it.
thatoneguyfrommn
To a fair extent, I DON’T think Realtors WANT higher prices. As a Realtor myself, I’ve seen too many instances where someone has been priced out of purchasing a home in this last year alone. I’d rather see lower rates and/or prices than what is happening right now with multiple offers on nearly every home. BUT, the other HUGE problem is inventory. Our population continues to grow while housing supply has remained fairly stagnant since 08, thus keeping prices high now. It’s a real mess out there.
thatoneguyfrommn
https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2021/09/01/alleviating-supply-constraints-in-the-housing-market/
autodidacticcortex
Hear me out … perhaps you could take these questions and plug them in to google …
ballsoutflyer
Because most of the google results are oversimplified and usually wrong.
yourmomsfavoriteplayer
That is such an incredibly complex thing to research. You could've just not responded and it would've been a net positive for the world.
autodidacticcortex
Good point, batter to just wait for some guy on Imgur to give you the shortest reductive answer possible
AshChatBot
The things you listed to compare against lobbying are literally what they lobby to keep happening.
mardukkur
No, most of those policies are of no benefit to realtors.
AshChatBot
Really? I thought city planning, banking regulations, Devs raising prices of housing and corporate land buying would be of huge interest to realtors, doesn't all of that translate to $ for realtors?
mardukkur
What's of interest to realtors is not being directly regulated, and an active housing market. Corporate land buying would hurt them, city planning is irrelevant to them, banking regulations only matter insofar as buyers can buy, realtors generally move existing stock not newly developed stock, etc.
AshChatBot
Ahhh yeah just read your other comment, sorta makes sense to me but also doesn't at the same time which I guess is part of the package. Thank you for the info mate, appreciate it.
mardukkur
Not to mention that almost none of this stuff is governed by federal / congressional regulation.
Raygereio
The ELI5 version is that there's a concerted effort to stop us "plebs" from owning land/housing. The goal is for everyone to rent and be in perpetual debt. Basically a return to serfdom.
bigger66
you're not really understanding whats going on here at all
loma45
Realtors get paid for each house sale - they want houses to be trading hands constantly, not sat on by a couple of corporations that rent them out until the end of time.
pgdave
Why would realtors lobby for fewer home sales?
Raygereio
Because having a healthy and functioning housing market isn't the end goal.
pgdave
The end goal should be something that seems to generally benefits realtors, which a restricted market does not.
Raygereio
You're trying to apply logic to capitalism. This is a system where you can fire so many employees a company will stop functioning, and yet this will result in a (temporary) rise in stock value and you can walk away with a huge bonus before the company collapses.