smoove6801
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I wonder if this tech will be suppressed, it'll probably never touch a tesla, and this is the last you'll hear of it for 50 years lol. Still an extremely awesome battery!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
Evilgerman3000
Bullshit
Apperture
Yeah... this is bs
tarataqa
efemral
It's so obvious to me that this is crap. Why do people fall for this conspiracy thinking?
Splosions
DorkJedi
Was the National Enquirer too busy with Elvis and Bat Boy to pick this one up?
iWantToBeABus
The daily mail is not credible.
RugAddict
Overhyped clickbait article. Did you know that almost every technology is built by a huge group of people not some 'inventor' working alone
brownsugga
Tell that Newton who single handedly invented gravity.
DarrenBonner
I just love how op already thinks that this shit works without ever seeing a prototype. I need what you are smoking op, It's some good stuff
justsignedupforthishit
Daily Mail? I don't believe it.
mitharas
If stuff like this doesn't hit the market, it's not suppressed. It just sucks in some way (e.g. too expensive or dangerous)
Bignholy
Wow. Reading the article is exactly like reading every bullshit pseudoscience article ever. He drinks the catalyst that works with low grade
Bignholy
aluminum? And that will power a car for that long? My ass. It's almost as bad as fusion (there is a reason we've yet to see net gain there)
Anthemius
We have seem immense strides in fusion technology actually. It is just very complex and appreciated by less than 0.001% of the population.
fantasticlight
This isn't a new technology and there are drawbacks.
Metalhead47
So... it’s a fuel cell, not a battery, so not rechargeable, and one could go 2700km with a Tesla S-sized pack, then needs to replace it all?
AmbroseGudmaker
Primary cells are batteries if hooked up in series or parallel.
IrrationalNumber
As far as I can tell you can get away with only replacing the anode, but a total replacement would be inevitable at some point.
butsir
Sounds like you enjoy a good baseless conspiracy theory
sergeantapone
“Suppressed inventions” is the stupidest of all stupid conspiracy theories
AgainstMethod
And some of the oldest. How many times have we heard about Nicola Tesla & his billion-dollar technology that no one wanted for some reason?
AgainstMethod
Some version of the "amazing suppressed vehicle tech" conspiracy has been around since before I was born.
evilspock
Meh. I'll believe it when it's actually in production. We've heard this story before, many times, including the "suppressed" bullshit.
Corona688
The tech's real. I had a fist-sized car booster built around al/air. It worked, until I unplugged it like an idiot and it died instantly
klj126
You are a fucking idiot.
LasseReinbong
Totally legit. Like the guy who build a car that runs on water. Or on dead cats. I collected dead cats for years. Still can´t fuel my car.
Corona688
The battery technology is real. There's a dead al/air battery in my dad's basement, bought from Canadian tire 15 years ago for 20-something
VitaminJay
If it works, you can bet it'll be commercialized.
DoubleSunMoonMoon
HahahhA! Ask the inventor of NiCad batteries, who sold excluaive use of them for Auto use to GM. That said,this new thing doesn't work.
Corona688
The new NiMH doesn't die like the old NiCAD did, but isn't THAT great either.
Corona688
Lithium is so light and efficient we use it for things that used to be fantasy, like portable electric heating elements.
OdinYggd
Aluminum-air batteries are nonrenewable and would just result in E-waste. Plus they take far more energy to make than you get.
Merky600
E-waste, they don’t save energy, and people need to keep buying them?? Sign me up!! -Joe Capitalist.
OdinYggd
They could be usable as an emergency battery- a one time use pod that can get a car off the side of the road. But not a primary service.
photoshopbot01
I thought this too, but then I looked at the actual diagram of the battery, and it's enormous. (Not what he's holding in the pic).
Castironpeppers
Laws of thermo dynamics, I very very very much doubt this
Corona688
It's possible. The tech is real - I've seen examples - and al has a huge fuel value. But it's also finicky and restricted to niche apps.
DemonFluffer1000
Which law? Chemical reactions releasing usable energy is a pretty basic concept in chem/physics.
Corona688
My dad had a one-use emergency car booster based on al/air. It worked, until I unplugged it like an idiot and the bat instantly died.
Huor
If it's real, it will be used. EV manufacturers have every motivation to extend range.
rpgaff2
It's not a battery, it's a recyclable fuel cell, and intended for a European market. Plus, secret formula means no competition/expansion.
Corona688
Secret formula? There's a dead one in my dad's basement, bought from Canadian Tire for $20-something 15 years ago.
rpgaff2
Secret non-toxi and non-caustic electrolysis solution.
Corona688
Almost certainly the same or close to that used in lithium batteries. Same problem, corrosive electrolyte.
IrrationalNumber
European market? UK won't be in the European market for long.
rpgaff2
True, but the point being it's intended for consumers who don't travel very far/very often, UK being the prime example.
marsgoose
Sure they will, it's not like it will be illegal to buy British products once they leave the EU
KonegPCMR
It doesn’t need to be “surpressed”, a battery that cannot be recharged is useless in a vehicle.
Corona688
Not even suppressed. I've seen products using this technology. It's a niche use and doesn't stick around
Anthemius
So the energy source for your vehicle that cannot be recharged in your vehicle is "useless" right... What does that make gasoline/petrol?
PecosBill
The article talks about switching the batteries out in 90 secs at grocery stores, just like propane tanks. 9x more energy dense than Li Ion.
thoushaltnotpass
And then you throw the battery away after a single use? That's extremely inefficient. I can see use (e.g. military drones) but it's limited.
OneUpperSteve
Not necessarily. If you could fast swap the battery pack for one with a charge, it doesn’t matter if the pack is recharged
Klingon00
They you have the problem of environmental waste.
OneUpperSteve
The aluminum in the battery would “probably” be easier to recycle than aluminum cans. Since cans are coated.
irrascible
Aluminum is highly recyclable.
OdinYggd
Its also highly energy intensive to recycle, oftentimes taking more energy to recycle than it does to make from new.
crann
Reread, recycling the battery, not just the aluminum. That I'll give you.
crann
Bullshit. "Aluminum. Recycling of aluminum cans saves 95% of the energy required to make the same amount of aluminum from its virgin source"
OdinYggd
And these batteries can't be recharged, so they'd only be good for a one-shot emergency power pack to get you to a normal charger.
theresamooselooseabootthishoose
It's the Mail on Sunday, closely related to the infamous Daily Mail. I'm not even sure if this is true yet
Genini
It's a real thing, but there are quite a few issues with its adoption industrially.
chrisjfinlay
There’s no “closely” about it. MoS is the Daily Mail.
theresamooselooseabootthishoose
I meant they are the same in all but name and day of publication, apologies if that wasn't clear
chrisjfinlay
Fair enough
theresamooselooseabootthishoose
mattsall
By suppressed, do you mean, was over hyped by the media and is actually useless?
DemonFluffer1000
Calm down fascist, we're not taking over with our leftard technology.
Corona688
We had an emergency car booster with aluminum/air battery. I unplugged it by accident and it died without charging the car.
bekkayya
all tech news not currently in your hand is useless
thoushaltnotpass
No he means conspiracies like the water motor and perpetual motion machines
Corona688
It prooooobably is. This tech comes up once in a while, fails to find a niche use, and is forgotten about again.
MrZev
Companies are there to make money, if the new thing works, it will make money, so why the fuck do people think it ever gets burried?
TBJ1118
Because believing in tinfoil hat conspiracy is better than admitting that their life is not where they want it and it's their fault. Common.
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smoove6801
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
smoove6801
Suppressing tech is not new.
IrrationalNumber
Aluminium–air batteries are primary cells, i.e., non-rechargeable.
DemonFluffer1000
So, you just add more fuel.
Radix865
As long as they could mostly recycle them, the price might come down eventually.
TempletonFerrariThe3rd
Why can't these be in addition to the rechargeable cells instead of replacing? The article doesn't go into it but primary cells are used to
TempletonFerrariThe3rd
Backup rechargeable cells all the time in all kinds of applications. And they hardly ever get used up before years have past by.
truemetalman
That might actually make it more marketable. I can imagine battery replacement taking the place of oil changes.
BobLobLawOG
Or imagine never going for oil changes, or to the gas station and just charging at home with cheap clean energy. Oh wait, that is a reality.
GlenL
I mean . . . if you're cool with paying thousands of dollars for an oil change, sure
Hobbsrox
Every 1500 miles instead or 5000? I cant.
Genini
But you don't need to stop for gas every 300 anymore either. If swapping the battery was simple and easy it'd be worth it.
IAkuTheShapeShiftingMasterofDarkness
Does that seem good for the environment? Rechargeable seems better..
CpnCanada
It would require a system for replacing the anode and recycling the aluminum byproducts backs to a usable state.
CpnCanada
Also rechargeable batteries have a finite life span and require disposal, recycling.
Domehammer
Rechargeable are toxic as fuck and a nightmare to recycle. Not sure about normal batteries.
Corona688
lithium is way less toxic than lead-acid, nicad, or nimh.
Lifesuckswearahelmet
Read the article as I did. The inventor drank the electrolyte in front of the investors.
Lordmongoose
the electrolyte is just salt water for Al-air batteries iirc.
RyanHaynes
But the materials are 100% recyclable
Toggles
I dunno the actual science behind it, but aluminum/air sounds safer than lithium/polymer, or lead/acid
husingillchild
Why?
dankenmutt
Hazarous chemicals... can be dangerous and pollute badly...
ComradeTrotsky
Probably because they've heard of lithium battery fires and also the acid part of lead acid just sounds bad
BassNAss
Rechargable has 6-10yr lifespan or something like that. Plus lithium and lead battery is highly toxic and difficult to dispose of.
LasciviousHedgehog
Wait, do you think lithium is a highly toxic metal? Or that it is hard to get rid of?
leelaman
There is mass infrastructure to recycle Pb acid batteries. Most Pb that's used today is the stuff that was mined back in the early 1900s
fluffyou
Depends what the end result is. If it's Al-oxide and an electrolyte that can be regenerated, it might be better than Li-ion.
LasciviousHedgehog
It can't be regenerated. It has to go through the Hall–Héroult process.
fluffyou
The "closely guarded secret" electrolyte, not the oxide. I'm familiar with aluminum production from alumina.
FakeusernameDave
The idea is to use one battery, go your 1500 miles or so, then part exchange it for another. Most would only change it every 3-6 months.
FakeusernameDave
If they can get costs down to a couple hundred pounds, it should be cost effective (haven't the details to do math)
shorey66
So 50 bucks a week? Fuck that ill keep my 300bhp petrol engine thanks it costs less.
somnif
Al-Air cells also have really bad self-discharge issues, so I imagine that 1500 miles is an "all in one go" estimate
aznanimality
The average American drives 13,000 miles/year, you'd be changing it once a month.
DemonFluffer1000
Just refuelling it.
aznanimality
Source: US Department of Transportation https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm
thrain5
The northeast being below average and most places west of the Mississippi being above average. If anyone was curious.
abrakadumbass
wtf? id go through 2 a month
Tzago
So what? How many times do you have to stop at a gas station currently? Better have 2 replacements at home, then buy another 2.
thrain5
Hello fellow American who lives outside of the Northeast....
FakeusernameDave
You drive a hundred miles a day, every day? That's so much to me. Are you US?
andymancan20
For many of us in the states that arent urban we drive 50 miles daily without much issue. Add a job a little ways a way and 100 is easy
WalterJKovacs
I drive 62 miles from my driveway to my parking lot at work. 104 miles per day and that doesn’t count other errands.
bigkingdingaling
I drive 84 miles round trip to work, more when I stop to run errands or have to detour because of traffic.
CaptainHollister
Jeez, how long is your commute?
abrakadumbass
my job takes me to different locations around the city. 60 miles/day is about average, and thats just for work
CaptainHollister
Damn. You at least get paid mileage?
Ninjafrog
Most people commute 20 miles a day or less, just really slowly. My step-dad used to drive 300 miles a day though.
thesameasyours
The aluminum batteries arent rechargeable, so how will it work?
DemonFluffer1000
Yes they are, you just add more fuel, like you do now with petrol.
apLundell
It will work by getting money from investors and then spending that money on a yacht.
DeanAtAdolfsSchoolForFriendshipAndTolerance
They’re also much more expensive than typical batteries. As such buyers are usually Industrial and military customers.
TempletonFerrariThe3rd
I'd imagine this working best as a backup to a rechargeable batt that's good for your average driving. This could kick in when you want to
TempletonFerrariThe3rd
Go that extra bit between charges. It could last year's that way.
SuperSaiyanSasquatch
Yeah, aluminum air batteries are well known but until we figure out how to make them rechargeable they're not practical for cars
T0go
Aluminum is fairly easy to recycle and is often recycled with nuclear or geothermal energy so it's not totally insane -- huge transport tho
CandidGamera
How's that a factor? Gasoline also isn't rechargeable. You use it, expel the waste product, and put in new gasoline.
PoeticRambler
Did you read the article? They work like fuel cells, and they're made of recycled aluminium.
thesameasyours
And weigh 100 pounds and need to be swapped out
hep0710510
According to the artivle there's 90 second swap system
PoeticRambler
I think the effort is worth it, the environmental benefits alone are incredible
BobLobLawOG
Funny enough I was talking about EVs the other day. I imagined if we had to build them with disposable batteries, how stupid it would be...
Anthemius
Unlike the current global standard of disposable hydrocarbons?
BobLobLawOG
I didnt say EVs are stupid, in fact I quite the fan, I drive an EV myself. But building them with disposable batteries, and engineer worth
BobLobLawOG
Their salt immidiately knows that is a dumb idea.
Metalhead47
According to the article you’d have to replace a several hundred pound pack every 1500+/- km, depending, when it’s spent.
DemonFluffer1000
No, you just add more fuel, like you do now with petrol.
Metalhead47
Where are you seeing that, and what fuel? That article is saying to me you replace the whole thing like a giant alkaline battery.
DemonFluffer1000
Fuel as in aluminium you do understand how an electrochemical cell works yeah?
Metalhead47
Yeah, but you can't exactly pump aluminum like a liquid, so how is it replaced other than replacing the unit?
TargetedAdBot
It need massive infrastructure for that kind of swapping and it's probably temporary. Look for graphite battery. Better successor for Li-ion
Martellus
Doesn’t the article say MPH?
Metalhead47
Quite so, it's Britain so I was thinking kms.
Tsumino79
that reminds me of a book i had when i was young that was like "the future is going to be awesome" it put forward the idea that electric
Tsumino79
cars would have swapable battery packs so you just go to a petrol station and robots (future rite?) swap it out and recycle the old one
thesameasyours
Ummmm i dont even brush my teeth that often
OneUpperSteve
You don’t brush your teeth every 1500km? Why not?
735824
No teeth.
thesameasyours
Because then i wouldnt travel as far
HamSanga
This article says differently - https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/12/naval-veteran-aluminum-air-metalectrique
Metalhead47
What's different?
AntTrapHouse
Sounds like it's terrible for the environment
Superfloofthundercat
Trust me its better than trying to recycle poisonous cobalt in lithium batteries.
Tyrkjier
And poisonous lithium
upp3
Cobalt and lithium doesn't need recycling every 1500 miles though.
Metalhead47
According to the article it's very easy to recycle, aluminum usually is, therefore easy on the environment.
Dankking
How does aluminum get recycled. What’s the process?
Metalhead47
Melt it. Melts real easy, you can even do it in a nice hot fireplace. Process for impurities & just re-cast.
mrdralixx
Yea. I remember reading a while back that most of the aluminum ever mined is still in use.
Metalhead47
Aluminum needs ridiculous amounts of power to smelt, most smelters have their own power plants, but is ridiculously easy to remelt scrap.
nananashisan
Recycling isn't exactly a free process either though I dunno how much is involved.
Metalhead47
Recycling aluminum is almost comically easy, you just remelt it. Takes MUCH less energy than processing fresh ore.
Muschifurz
easy to recycle doesnt mean evironment friendly... it takes energy to recycle aluminium
Metalhead47
FAR less than smelting it from ore, tho.
Evenmorehorrifying
Where'd you get "several hundred pounds"?
Metalhead47
They're comparing it to either the size or weight of a Tesla Model S battery, which is several hundred pounds.
Evenmorehorrifying
Ah, gotcha. The article didn't state a given weight, but that the battery could be swapped "in 90 seconds" which didn't give much info
Metalhead47
Even if it's 1/10th the weight of the S pack, I just don't see swapping something that size in 90 seconds. Something here don't math right.
TempletonFerrariThe3rd
Well they said the aluminum ones are significantly lighter but I still think that exchanging them isn't going to be easy
Metalhead47
Indeed. A Tesla S pack is 1200lbs, so even at a tenth the weight that’s still 120, ain’t exactly gonna plop that in a shopping cart.
Sigge1981
That's a hard pass, from me. That's fucking stupid. 1500km is nothing. I drive that in a few days.
Robindino17
So I'm guessing you are a trucker or something?
illogicalphallusies
i mean....you replace several hundred pounds of fuel in that same timeframe....
brekko
A few days? So you're commute is like 200 km?
MuttleyMutterson
My insurance covers me for driving 12k a year, so I'm looking at a battery every month or so? Not too bad if that's my fill up.
shorey66
Sounds incredibly wasteful and fucking expensive. Also daily mail is generally bullshit
ExecutorHideo
Aluminum batteries are easy to recycle, and you have no idea how much it would cost when applied refilling formula.
MedicSailor
You are dense, it clearly says MILES not kilometers. So it would go for 2414 kilometers. Sounds like you travel an absurd amount.
schnager
Never been to Texas huh?
MedicSailor
Nope. Not yet but I plan to visit
DukeSamuelVimes
Well then I'd really hate to tell you about gas refills and oil changes.
WhatzitTooya
You wont be happy with any electric car then. I can see that work for people with short commutes though.
Robindino17
So I'm guessing you are a trucker or something?
RackhamTheRed
2414km. It said 1500 miles. That's on average 1 change per month in the US
RadicalLeftist
Look at it like filling up the tank. You go to a service station and swap out packs
Moklok
I assume this is the first generation. Maybe btter to spend focus on developing this further than existing solutions.
Metalhead47
Might actually make it MORE appealing to legacy car makers. Dealers could then charge to change packs instead of change oil.
CaffeineManic
Article says battery exchange in 30 seconds, and they're negotiating with supermarkets to provide that service. Cost/mile about ½ of petrol.
Hobbsrox
Per cell. Hundreds of cells per vehicle. Thousands per bus. That is not viable unfortunately, and every 1500 miles? Bordeline retarded imho
Metalhead47
Something about that's not clear tho, they're elsewhere comparing to a "Model S-size/wight" pack. Ain't getting that from the bread aisle.