SphereOfNoForm
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Feb 19, 2017 11:57 AM
SphereOfNoForm
195204
4424
451
NegentropyX
Er, "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" sounds like a tax proponent to me.
ChallengerDeep
Wasn't anti-death penalty. Said it would be better a millstone be tied around a man's neck and he thrown in the water than he harm a child
PatrollinTheMojave
Good thing I'm an atheist!
jayalbert1
Meaning?
RiddledWithRhymes
Zigor22
This isn't accurate at all
imgurforants
As a Christian, most of it is actually pretty accurate. Not all though.
flyingmonsters
It's a misinterpretation to push a liberal political agenda
Repostcomments
Just saying lol isn't enough for this comment. You'll have to imagine more for me.
ThatGuyWhoIsAlwaysThatGuy
Likely by an atheist who never read the Bible.
andwhyisthecarpetallwetTodd
and then theres muhammad
frosty147
shhh...when being lectured by the left it's impolite to point out their deafening silence on Islam.
JustSomeGuyOnline
He wasn't anti wealth.
Stanistani
Not all that nonviolent... remember when he found the capitalists in the Temple?
fencerman
"Remember, when people ask what would jesus do, flipping over tables and beating people with a whip is within the realm of possibility".
theromen111
Just remember wwjd also goes into chasing people with a whip while flipping over tables
jayalbert1
Citation?
lazerzpewpew
it was a currency conversion scam, it had nothing to do with the exchange of goods for money.
XChiefAwesomeX
That's what he called them huh? Capitalists?
daveisamonster
Money changers. People making money off of interest. Same thing.
leodavinci1
No.
daveisamonster
Trees.
SquirtleSquad420
Did he hurt anyone or just bust up their stuff?
KuteKittenKoats
Hurt anyone? It doesn't really say. Busy some stuff up? Yes, yes he did. Moral of the story, dot mess with Jesus.
manolyk23
So what you're saying is "Nobody fucks with the Jesus"?
easybrz
Can someone make a shirt with Jesus flipping a table while brandishing a whip that says nobody fucks with Jesus?
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MadDrDrillBit
Righteous anger is not a sin, whipping a thief was ok there at the time. the merchants were committing usury.
leodavinci1
Or stoning people to death for "infidelity" (or whatever)... they were okay with stoning, too.
CapnJackSparrow
Technically Jesus was never against stoning, just the hypocrisy of it. He never said "Don't kill her", just "If you haven't sinned, do it"
Enigma561
Not really. Jesus is perfect, the point was to illustrate righteous anger as part of God's character
KrisCouzens
So let get this straight, just because there are no stories about him doing these things that means it didn't happen? Wow, food for thought.
Ziltron
Go and sin no more.
Executor32
Lightsaber-Fighting Space Jesus, in His name we pray.
SittinOnThePooper
America wasn't even around yet.. So of course he wasn't American..
tarataqa
Jesus was so American! It's right there in his catch-phrase "For Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"
psheen13
How else would he have blonde haired and blue eyes. OP is posting fake posts.
CumsInPies
OP is blaspheming against the sanctity of white Jesus and I'm exercising my stone throwing arm. We all need hobbies.
ScherezadeJones
You'd be surprised at the weird dumb shit you hear in the south. Other places too, I'm sure, but damn it the south is full of it.
RedWebster
Sadly, we have to explain this every once and a while to fellow Americans.
AegonTargaryenTheSixthOfHisName
Typically the racist or uneducated ones....
NegentropyX
Didn't he visit John Smith? Yes he did, unless you are bigoted against the Mormons.
Marjoskan
I just hate it when I disagree with someone and become a bigot!
Askingforafriend37
You mean Joseph smith, right?
Selerox
Well, "America" was around, it just wasn't called America and we didn't know it existed.
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Selerox
That is exactly my point :)
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Selerox
It's been a long week for all of us.
SamaelTheVenomOfGod
"We". Speak for yourself, immigrant. :D
psheen13
We didn't know anything existed. I don't think any of us were alive then.
TheoGibbsladeGnabry
And THIS is why I'm Christian
SwordsToTheSkyWeRideAtDawn
"....or so the original story goes. But it's hard to make money off this, so let's change it"
BXHOVAYPCK
You fell for it
Hoop66
Bravo!
sahelt12
Zenzui
I've never known anyone to make money off of that story and not immediately spend it on the public good.
OPmakesOC
Watch John Oliver's video about evangelical megachurches.
Hoop66
Televangelists ring any bells?
Zenzui
No?
MandalorianMerc13
Except this isn't the original story at all, it's taken horribly, massively out of context, and some of it is outright lies.
Styreta
lol, some.....
easybrz
Well if you're gonna talk shit back it up with sources.
OneTrueSaviour
i need 10 different souces by 10 different people on 10 different sites
jayalbert1
One reasonable would b right.
OPmakesOC
[citation needed]
bgorch01
Such as? I'm just curious, Mr. No Source.
DrBRx
The flavor of these straw men are distinctly cherry...picked.
jabercrombie
Let's do Mohammed next!
daveisamonster
I read that if the Abraham traditions are real, then Islam is the true religion.
flyingmonsters
Good luck with that.
neilluminate
He wasn't anti-wealth (he was anti-materialism), wasn't anti death-penalty (never spoke on it), and definitely wasn't anti public (1/2)
memberwar
Matthew 19:24. You don't know much about Jesus *or* the Bible.
neilluminate
He said this after speaking with a man who refused to give up his wealth to follow Jesus. It was a question of priorities, not wealth itself
dyc3r
Context is important.
dmjfourth
I think the more important question is not whether he was anti-wealth it's "why do you want that to be false so badly?"
neilluminate
I don't... I make 12 dollars an hour and live paycheck to paycheck, I just think what Jesus said should be properly interpreted.
neilluminate
But I know what you mean. Jesus was concerned with a person heart and I'd rather be poor and humble than rich and materialistic.
KlausvonZeit
But, but, but, if we accurately represent Jesus's teaching, then we can't twist His words to mean "Christians have to be leftists"!
neilluminate
I just get annoyed when He's misrepresented. Even if you don't believe he's the Son of God at least represent him with historical accuracy
leodavinci1
What "historical" accuracy? By all accounts I've read, there is no historical reference to Jesus that is attributable to the time He lived.
neilluminate
I'm going to just guess you've never tried then? Look up Josephus (journalist in Jesus' day) and Tacitus. Not to mention the Bible (1/2)
neilluminate
itself contains historical accounts (synoptic gospels).
neilluminate
prayer. He warned against praying in public in order that you might be seen and rewarded by man. Is was concerning motivation of the heart
noplaceidratherbe
Wealth: He said having it (and material goods) was not of benefit and he preached against those who sought it...so anti-wealth accumulation
neilluminate
It was an issue of the heart. The sin wasn't in having possessions but in valuing possessions, because everything on earth will pass away.
Sprixxen
Of course people that have wealth will value it though, right? That's how they got wealthy. Unless it's inherited.
neilluminate
Maybe bad wording on my part. You can value money objectively without worshipping it. People have to provide for themselves and there's (1/2
neilluminate
no evil in that. In fact the Bible also says that a man who doesn't provide for his family is worse than the nonbeliever. (2/2)
GiantRobotsRule
He was anti-wealth. Told rich guy sell everything & follow him, said it's easier for camels to fit through a needle than rich to go to heavn
neilluminate
Rich man was an individual who was addicted to his wealth, not applicable to anyone who has possessions. There is no absolute standard (1/?)
neilluminate
for what makes a person "rich." A rich man in one country may be comparatively poor in another part of the world. Materialism is a (2/?)
neilluminate
state of the heart, which Jesus was trying to get this man to realize. Also remember that after he said the camel through the needle (3/?)
neilluminate
bit his disciples asked "then WHO can anger heaven?," to which Jesus replied "impossible with man, possible with God," which is the gospel.
noplaceidratherbe
Death Penalty: John 8:1-11; Matthew 6:5-15 is clearly against the requirement for public piety and prayer in favor of personal devotion!
flyingmonsters
Public prayer as in going on a street corner etc. and saying how great you are and pious bcause of it. Never said only do private devotion.
neilluminate
He did of course favor personal devotion over public escapades of prayer, but he wasn't against praying in public from a legal standpoint.
neilluminate
Also he used the adulteress as a lesson for the Pharisees to look at their own sin before condemning another. Remember he said even if (1/?)
neilluminate
you look on a woman lustfully you've committed adultery in your heart. Not sure whether he would have been for or against an actual (2/?)
neilluminate
death penalty because he never actually spoke on it. People in favor of the death penalty probably wouldn't support putting adulterers (3/?)
Avarageatbest
Isn't the death penalty, like, a big part of the Bible?
neilluminate
No
Avarageatbest
Wasn't Jesus sentenced to death?
neilluminate
Yes
Avarageatbest
• <-> • there are two dots. Connect them
DamnTheGrapeNuts
Jesus actually would have had short hair. Men of the time kept their hair short to distinguish themselves from women.
leodavinci1
Some of this is true, some of it is false, some of it is a real reach. Wow! Sounds like life in general.
dmjfourth
How dare you bring nuance into this?!
PeterMus
He wasn't anti-public prayer. The bible rebukes people who looking for attention by praying publicly...not people praying in a public space.
aworldfullofretards
If a person prays in private and no one is around to see it, does it even matter?
Iamnotarobot094825382
The concept of separating public/private wasn't even fully developed at that time, most everything had some communal sense attached to it
Iamnotarobot094825382
The enlightenment began the whole trend of separating society into different unrelated spheres.
cousteau
So basically anti-attention whoring.
DepartmentofAlternateFacts
Well its good to know those point whore are going to hell
Uriah30
Perfectly said
fearandloathinginaz
He specifically says in the sermon on the mount to pray in private. If you're talking to God nobody else needs to hear it.
guywithapetfish
He would also say to be open and unashamed in devotion to God
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guywithapetfish
lol wut?
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fearandloathinginaz
Found the Pharisee
imgurforants
Wrong, Jesus himself prayed in public quite often. It's not the act itself, it's the motive.
fearandloathinginaz
Why would anyone other than the individual you are speaking to need to hear? And what time did Jesus pray out loud for others to hear?
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imgurforants
He wasn't saying never pray if someone can see you, he said don't pray SO THAT other people see you. Subtle difference.
UncleTopher
Why can't I sit on a bench in a public park and pray quietly then? No one can hear me, and most won't even know that I'm praying.
fearandloathinginaz
I studied Jesus's teachings extensively, I would conclude he was fine with that. It's doing it so other can hear it. You wouldn't talk 1/2
RobBobertyYT
If no one can hear you, i would argue it's not really public.
UncleTopher
And I would agree, but I felt as if the previous comment was saying just being in public and praying was wrong. Maybe I misinterpreted.
IamnotaBrowndj
Misinterpretation is rife in the religious community. Recognising that is a progressive motion.
fearandloathinginaz
I studied Jesus's teachings extensively, I would conclude he was fine with that. It's doing it so other can hear it. You wouldn't talk 1/2
fearandloathinginaz
2/2 dirty or have a private conversation with your SO in public unless you were looking for attention, why talk to your creator out loud?
CastleCrypt
There is so much about this that's false or twisted into someones personal agenda
jayalbert1
Source, please.
Wookieoo7
Hang about mate, Jesus wasnt anti wealth, he was anti money god and non violent? He drove people with a whip, that he braided himself.
DownvotePls
Doesn't say anywhere he used a whip, common misconception
ArtArchive
Well, if you read John 2:13-15, it specifically mentions a whip. Not so in the other gospels.
aesthesia1
he was anti wealth. He stated that is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god
scoriai
That's because people who are rich tend to trust money more than God. Money isn't inherently bad, the idolization of it is.
scoriai
He said the love of money is the root of all evil. Not money is the root of all evil.
Attaroo
Almost impossible for rich people to go to heaven, you were to be perfect in God's eyes, you should give all your belongings to the poor
Attaroo
Church teachings are often different, but then lots of churches very much like having rich parishoners.
memberwar
Matthew 19:24. You don't know much about Jesus *or* the Bible.
Wookieoo7
If thats the case then all western christians are going to hell. Or by your christians who act like Bill Gates arent real christians. Do you
Wookieoo7
Own a house? A car, how new is it? Do you have a good paying job? Because it sounds like you belive that we should be living in poverty.
leodavinci1
Matthew 19:24 means difficult, but not impossible. Know this because I have come up with two ways to get a camel thru the eye of a needle.
CapnJackSparrow
Filet/break every piece so it's small enough to fit? Or, if you're rich as in the parable, pay someone to do it for you?
krylani
Easy. Giant blender and a funnel. Alternatively, extreme pressure differential like the underwater pipeline and world's unluckiest crab.
madmattz
yet may or may not have actually existed...
cjpoet
Whether he did or didn't, the "Right" have claimed him as their own, yet fail to follow his lead. that's Fuglesang's point.
Mcnk
But the photographs prove it
stsword
Well I for one am tired of "christians" whose motto seems to be "make the baby Jesus cry" instead of "What would Jesus do?"
madmattz
I for one am tired of needing to look to anyone to do something good. That comes from within
Kokainekowboy
Historians have proves his existence with the Census from the Roman Empire. Whether you believe he was the son of God is different.
KyloSolo
Yet the mindless sheep downvote me. Ha!
KyloSolo
Yet the mindless sheep downvote me. Ha!
KyloSolo
The fact that Jesus existed - is a fact.
daveisamonster
Keep telling yourself that
KyloSolo
Do you hate the man that much that even in the face of evidence you deny the existence?!
daveisamonster
The evidence I've seen is questionable.
BritishNoodle
The fact that Jesus did all of that stuff in the bible is interpiratable
Macynist
What is that even a word?
KyloSolo
I'm speaking solely from a historical perspective. Those who wish to oppose my statement are simply ignorant.
daveisamonster
There is evidence "proving" both sides of the argument. Your certainty is coming across as arrogance. Shallow and podantic.
KyloSolo
As does yours.
dancfontaine
Interpretable mate
BritishNoodle
THAT ONE!
ufgatorfan
Despite overwhelming evidence that he did exist, there are still people who think like you.
MininMark
Ooh boy, I love evidence. Do you have some?
ufgatorfan
Wont do the research for you. Quit being intellectually dishonest. Google is your friend.
Singh25025
As you are saying that Jesus does exist, the burden of proof is on you, if you don't have the sauce, Jesus didn't exist.
ufgatorfan
1/ http://strangenotions.com/an-atheist-historian-examines-the-evidence-for-jesus-part-1-of-2/, I'll start there but we all know how this
braccus69
Yeah what evidence?
scoriai
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus I know it's Wikipedia, but it should get you started on what to look into if you 1/2
daveisamonster
This reminds me of the time I argued with an anti-vaxxer.
scoriai
Believe what you want, I really couldn't care less. But fucking educate yourself, don't wait for other people to do it for you.
scoriai
Actually care about seeing evidence. Though I'm guessing you just wanted to write a challenging comment.
IUsedToBeTheWalrus
Looks like John Fugelsang would also excel at #explainafilmplotbadly. I mean, good grief, Matthew 6:5 is about praying as a way to show off.
lhxtx
It then goes to say to pray shortly, succinctly, and alone, and then teaches the Lord's Prayer.
IUsedToBeTheWalrus
It just doesn't seem to matter that a few verses speaking on one subject are used as prooftext for something else.
IUsedToBeTheWalrus
It is sort of amazing to see people confidently talking about what they don't know and have had no desire to understand.
Whitedeviel1776
Exactly. If you are praying for people to see you and say you are great is what it is about. Not praying in public as Jesus did himself.
Dmaneyes74
Weren't the Jews the ones who crucified him for all those things? Just saying.
xzhous
Yep, they were. Christians went heavy with the anti-Semitism and this was part of why
mstalltree
Jews of his time were upset with his rebellious actions but it was the Romans who understood the actual act of crucification as punishment
mstalltree
Undertook*
GiantRobotsRule
No, it wasn't "the Jews" who killed Jesus any more than it was "the Americans" who killed Lincoln.
RobertSlipsky
I confess. We did it. It was my great uncle Morris. We got pics and signed documents.
SeeShark
Their leadership did. The common people liked him. It's like saying the American people support torture because the CIA does it.
Sendhelpsoon
No
sleazypeezy
Technically the Romans did it, Jews stay strong!
flyingmonsters
I mean they were the ones who pushed for his death. He wasnt on the Romans radar before that
rubbarz
They crucified him for saying he is the messiah. Also because Judas is a snitching bitch.
primalmammal
He still was a Jew himself.
kempper
It was the Roman government not the Jews
elbdms
If Jesus came back he'd easily be crucified again. If it was real. Fuck religion.
DespiseEveryone
No the romans. From Rome. Later the home of the catholic church. Gosh, I wonder who spread the tale the Jews did it.
Attaroo
Ding ding ding. Also the Roman emperor Constantine ordered the creation of a singular approved bible.
memberwar
Just saying you didn't read the Bible and need some help? OKAY, PONTIUS PILATE (NOT JEWISH), HAD HIM CRUCIFIED.
BluBoxx
Pilate left the decision up to the Jews. In the bible he's depicted as largely ambivalent
cousteau
13 times. The record is 26 though.
BluBoxx
Imgur's exceptional servers....
cousteau
I think that happens when you get the "An error has occurred" message and press "send" again.
tarataqa
Jesus was a Jew. It's a secret. Don't tell anyone.
easybrz
That's no secret
tarataqa
shhhh
noptic
Na he was killed because he gained to much influence. It was a political thing.
DeathByUngaBunga
Probably not, he had an insignificant following before he died. most likely killed because the episode in the temple and the money lenders
PixelatedGambit
It was the Romans my good sir.
Betshabee
The womans ?
PixelatedGambit
Then too lol
KuteKittenKoats
Romans ordered it under the pressure of the Jewish leaders. They weren't so happy about Jesus teaching people and claiming to be the messiah
Attaroo
historical/political persepctive, remember it was Constantine that ordered a single bible be created for the church at the Council of Nicea.
RangerChei
*Other people claiming he was the messiah. JC never rolled that way, his disciples said it.
Wastyvez
This is described in the Gospel, but there's almost no historical evidence supporting this claim and the Jewish involvement in Christ's 1)
Wastyvez
crucifixion is heavily debated with no academic consensus existing. Also this has been used as an excuse for antisemitism for centuries. 2)
Safegyde
He wasn't anti wealth. Try reading the Bible before pretending to know Him. He was anti-putting anything before God, usually wealth was it.
daveisamonster
The bible is a load of bull. Maybe if Jesus actually wrote something. ..
stsword
Matthew 6:19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal."
Attaroo
Easier for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle. If you want to be perfect in god's eyes give away...
Attaroo
...all your possessions to the poor. Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of god (Luke 6:20). Lots of others.
MadAsAFrickenHatter
I hate when Jesus is depicted as a white guy, whether you believe he was the messiah shouldnt deter from the fact that historically he was
MadAsAFrickenHatter
Real and he was from the Middle East region. Therefore not Caucasian.
exponant
That is a little annoying.
MadAsAFrickenHatter
My statement or Jesus being depicted as white?
exponant
Oh, sorry, not your statement. I agree that it is annoying that Jesus has so often been portrayed as looking so Anglo-.
NegentropyX
TL;DR: Jesus didn't speak about stuff not known in his time. "Stuff" being how we have turned things into political concepts.
SomeCrazyNerd
Homosexuals are mentioned in other parts of the bible. And abortion has existed for a long time.
Attaroo
Funny that, him being the incarnation of an omniscient God and all that. Might have saved us a few headaches, right?
NegentropyX
Or maybe, "He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! Now, piss off!"
stsword
Well I don't know if it was politicized or not, but people have been having abortions for over 3000 years now.
NegentropyX
Coat hangers weren't invented that long ago...
stsword
There's these things called chemicals, they've been around for a while. :)
NegentropyX
Probably mushrooms and stuff.
stsword
Heck, the ancient egyptians even had a pregnancy test that worked 70% of the time.
JustDaShoemaker
Yeah I say yesterday a post where a guy was correcting the Pope on what scripture really meant, good luck with the Fundies
tarataqa
That's the problem with all religions. Interpretation.
JustDaShoemaker
Or as I like to say, pretending to know shit you can't possibly know
tarataqa
God told me you were gonna say that.
JustDaShoemaker
Tell that SOB I'm still waiting for the promised glory from the blood and foreskin sacrifice done in his honor - I mean sheesh gimme a sign
tarataqa
He said your promised glory will come to fruition very soon. He just needs you to send me a tiny monthly donation of only 10% of your income
LoveBooobz
Lol he wasn't against some of that because it didn't exist in his time :p
region12sec
What didn't exist at that time?
FrenchRatBastard
The only thing on there not during his existence would be abortion/birth control. Everything else existed in some form or another
HerrGrumps
Apparently there was something like abortion at some point back then? https://robertcargill.com/2015/08/19/
PoppinLochNessHopster
Oh I'm sure even back in the day they had a few "we can't feed another kid, I'm going to go fall out of a tree"
lilmole
birth control in some form has existed as long as sex has, so not even that.
SomeCrazyNerd
Abortion has always existed. Just more primitative forms. They had procedures to rip out a baby if the mother was dying in childbirth.
OdeToBouncer
Induced abortion existed at that time, there are references to it going back hundreds of years before Christ (BC).
srslydude
But it wasn't as prevalent or as much of a hot-button issue as it is today.
FrenchRatBastard
Ah, so all these things DID exist. Legion never fails to answer
OdeToBouncer
I..I am Legion? Well shit. Do I start spewing cockroaches or hacking all of the things or what now? http://imgur.com/uN4yXEe
region12sec
What didn't exist at that time?
xzhous
Dodd Frank. Jesus was a huge opponent of regulations because the only laws to follow are the 10 Commandments. /s
imgurforants
Not quite, there were plenty of other God given laws at the time. It was the laws men made to further their personal agendas he talked about
NotTheEast
I don't think that's true, I'm pretty sure he tells people to pay taxes because they should follow the laws of the land
leodavinci1
True, but a system like ours didn't exist at the time... an elected government of and by free men & women with equal rights and 1 of 2
leodavinci1
no slavery or inherited authority. Got to wonder what Jesus would have thought about it all. 2 of 2