Delivering a normal baby in US costs more than a royal baby. $10k+ vs $9k

Apr 23, 2018 4:45 PM

mystichead

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The average normal delivery in the United States costs over $10,000. The average bill that parents have to pay is about $3,000. Insurers cover more than $7,000.

In comparison, even the most luxurious pregnancy suite in the U.K in St. Mary's Hospital in London, the cost barely exceeds $9,000 total. In 2015, the Lindo Wing charged £5,670 ($8,900) for 24 hours in a deluxe room and a non-Caesarean delivery.

Also in 2015, research by the International Federation of Health Plans and Truven Health Analytics found that the average fee for a non-Cesarian delivery in the United States was $10,808. That rises to roughly $30,000 after accounting for care given before and after a pregnancy.

The costs are rampant despite the fact that of the OECD countries, the U.S is one of the lowest performers in all health indices, especially related to childbirth.

This is just an indicator of rampant price mismanagement and lack of standardization of medical procedures and systems in the U.S.

This problem costs the American people tens of billions of dollars per year. Money, that could be used to save more lives, and/or treat more people, if not bolster the medical resources.

One thing to note is that this shows the overall cost of the procedures in general to the system, regardless of who pays however much. The lack of standardization of costs and procedural billing is what drives inefficiencies up the roof, with one health provider doing $x while across the street another is doing $2x, and it constantly being in flux.

Another current and future cause and threat to even more increasing prices is the mass consolidation, mergers and acquisitions of large scale health providers into large health systems. These systems end up being the few or sole provider in a region or area and have been shown to bump up the price when assigning the price to any given procedure on any given day. Rural and small suburb areas are actually the worst affected due to a large portion of these providers being predatory in prices while being the sole provider.

One of the core and largest sources for the disgusting prices is because there is little to no market standards for priceing whether from the private market or government or mix.

Remember folks, as long as the cost to the system is high, whether the patient pays it or not, even if the insurance pays half of it, ultimately it will keep the market incentive to keep prices unstable and bloated, for everyone.

40k tax (traveling through the warp ... expecting the daemons in comments)

My twin boys stayed 3 months on NICU. Try $600,000

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I promise you insurance doesn’t pay 7,000. The prices are so high because insurance will only pay a percentage.

8 years ago | Likes 52 Dislikes 0

You have to go one way or the other. Either socialized healthcare or completely capitalism. The US errors by taking middle ground.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Shit, cost us over $50K. I had to have a C-section but she was completely healthy when they got her out.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Cool your kid may be in debt just by birth. It's almost like the Original Sin but way more real.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

"Ahh good, another little wage slave. Lovely."

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Not only is it free in Australia, but the government pays you maternity leave.

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

Same in Canada. Up to 18 months maternity leave with pay

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Netherlands it s free

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 2

You're not paying anything but it's not free. The wonders of health care ;-)

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Yeah, but our hospital patients get more thoughts and prayers than other countries.

8 years ago | Likes 37 Dislikes 2

The USA pays per capita around three times what the UK pays towards healthcare, yet doesn't have universal health care.

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

And too many of us are too busy patting ourselves on the back for being the best place in the Universe in general to notice that we're kind

8 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

of shit in several ways.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Just got out of the medical billing field and this is 100 accurate. Fucking thieves posing as doctors it's mad.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I used to intern as a data analyst for a hospital in their health informatics and billing dept, that's one of the reason this struck a cord

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

This is why I see doctors like lawyers. They both have to go to school for a while, and sometimes you need them, but I'd never trust them.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

US is a garbage place to live, especially for healthcare.

8 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 10

I feel very lucky we have the NHS.

8 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 1

I like the "You only have to pay [$$$$] after insurance though!" as if insurance wasn't costing you in one way or another. My employer-paid

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

insurance is worth over $700/mo.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

And the amount you pay AFTER insurance is more than how much most other developed countries pay.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You guys in the US need to sort your shit out

8 years ago | Likes 33 Dislikes 8

US resident here. Can confirm. Our last election, we got to choose between a fat corrupt clown and a health industry shill.

8 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 5

What is this “paying” of medical treatments? Isn’t it free?

8 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 7

Someone is providing a service to meet a need. Of course it's not free.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Nothing is free

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Less than 1000$ for both of mine out of pocket here in the US. I think that price is before insurance

8 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 3

Ditto on mine and then 5 years later we got $ back. Apparently they over charged & got audited.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

No but privatization lowers cost though /s LOL

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

We haven't had a privatized healthcare system for almost decades and decades.... Research is your friend not your enemy.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

1. I was being sarcastic (see "/s") 2. Who is "we"?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

1. I was unaware /s = sarcasm and 2. if you cannot figure out who "we" is based on the antecedent then i can't really help you out man

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It's a country that doesn't have a privatized healthcare system, okay, so that narrows it down to about 32 countries

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Reference antecedent in op

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

So we're all in consensus that our healthcare is completely fucked in the US and by all rights shouldn't be, right? Now what?

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Sink the Capitol building into the swamp while Congress is fully in session*, 6 feet of concrete over it, and try again?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

* - I know that'll never happen. Gotta be out campaigning to keep their cushy jobs, no time to be at work.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

wait old shits there die and vote your generation in power don't fuck up this time

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Sadly don't think it's built on top of a swamp

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Swamps do at least support an active ecosystem and serve a useful purpose.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Buy first class tickets to Spain, vacation for a few weeks, have kid, vacay some more, fly home, still save money...WTF???

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Prior to tha ACA(Obamacare) half of all bankruptcy cases were due to healthcare expenses and half of those cases had insurance. http://time.

8 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 3

I have 3 kids. My oldest was born when I was in the Army. Out of pocket cost = $0 (thanks Tri-care). The 2nd was born when I had a job (1)

8 years ago | Likes 41 Dislikes 3

Tri-care, by virtue of the American Taxpayer.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

True. To be fair though, until about E-5, Tri-care is the mIn source of compensation for enlisted soldiers. Lol.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Was in the army for both, but my children's births were $30k/ea billed to Tricare. No special circumstances whatsoever. 1 in TX, 1 in CA.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

To clarify all 3 of mine were very expensive also. I'm talking about what I had to pay that my insurance wouldn't cover.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

with co-pay based Insurance. Out of pocket cost = $350. The youngest was born with a deductible-based plan. Out of pocket cost = $3900. (2)

8 years ago | Likes 38 Dislikes 1

Moral of the story is I should have had all my kids while I was still in the Army. Also, health care reform would be really nice. (3)

8 years ago | Likes 32 Dislikes 2

Did you have kids before the Affordable care act?

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

The first two were before. But the last one was after. But the ACA was too expensive for us since I was eligible for coverage through work.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

From the Netherlands. Had a home birth under guidance from a midwife (who also handled the whole pregnancy appointments). Postnatal care 1/2

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

2/2 for a week at home from a trained professional who also helped with cleaning and baby care. Paid €0 out of pocket. Insurance paid it all

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

(Postnatal care was 8 days total, 5 to 6 hours a day). Without insurance I would've paid €3000 for the whole pregnancy and postnatal.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

*cough* weird how Canada isnt on that list

8 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 3

That's because the cost to the healthcare system is lower

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 3

The problem with Canada is there's not enough doctors to go around.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Surprisingly that seems to be an issue almost everywhere. We aren’t producing enough medical professionals.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

I'm not surprised. It must suck being a doctor.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Idk about being a doctor, but trying to get into medical school sucks ass

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

CA-NA-DA CA-NA-DA CA-NA-DA

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

My daughter was free cost... blame Canada. :p In all seriousness, fuck the U.S. healthcare system. They know it's a joke and laugh all 1/2

8 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 4

the way to the fucking bank about it.

8 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 2

The fact that Cuba has a lower infant mortality than we in US says a lot about our health system.

8 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 2

The problem is this. We also save a lot of babies that would be considered terminal at birth. The U.S. has the best NICU system anywhere. 1

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

We also perform a MASSIVE number of life saving procedures/surgeries that in almost any other country wouldn't be even considered.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

If you honestly have done so little research that you believe this then clearly our education system has failed you...

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

8 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 6

Do Americans think they’re the only country with freedom?

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

No, but they're the only country that holds freedom above the greater good. #freedomboner

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

They think they are number one in freedom but they are close to 18th in overall freedom.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Four things you don't want the Free Market to control: your health, your education, your justice, and your politics.

8 years ago | Likes 215 Dislikes 26

Our education and justice system in America is completely fucked and it’s completely run by government. What the hell are you talking about?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

The “free market” currently manages none of those things. The government ruined each of them.

8 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 12

Also police, fire department, military, community infrastructure, charity/welfare, environmental protection, waste management, zoning...

8 years ago | Likes 32 Dislikes 5

ie, justice and politics. As the person said...

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

It is just to provide those things equally, and some are in politically charged areas, but that doesn't make them all justice and politics.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Wrong, wrong, right, wrong.

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 7

BuT pRoFiTs ArE BaD

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I agree. Yet, healthcare we have in America is even worse than it would be under free market control.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Your transport. Good god they should not come near the transport.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Overturn Citizen United and we can start on the rest. Oh wait, Hillary has no charisma so FUCK everything we stand for.

8 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 8

What's wrong with citizens United? I like the NAACP they should have a voice and even then I want to listen.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 7

NAACP has been around doing work for a lot longer than Citizens United has applied.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Yeah and a lot of the foundations for citizens United originate from NAACP v Alabama and NAACP v Button

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

so the things that matter then hmmmmmm maybe this 'free market' is just shit

8 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 16

It works for luxuries. And only luxuries

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 7

Have you bought bread?

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Yes?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Oh wow look at that market working on a non luxury

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

You say on an app that would never exist outside of a free market economy, on a phone/comp you would never have outside a free market system

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Our education system it a total shitshow.

8 years ago | Likes 40 Dislikes 2

So you are saying the government way of doing is a terrible way of doing it?

8 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 3

v

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I think "shitshow" counts as abstinence only sex ed.

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

Coincidentally, nowhere near resembling the free market

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

Is it rampant price mismanagement or is it just because healthcare is for profit?

8 years ago | Likes 314 Dislikes 12

[deleted]

[deleted]

8 years ago (deleted Apr 23, 2018 9:13 PM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

Yes.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

My kid’s delivery was 28k (C section) at a non profit hospital. And Europe has for profit medical care too - Phizer, J&J, GE etc.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8 A lot of the costs thrown around aren't real prices.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Price mismanagement. We need to address that before we can fix our healthcare system as we pay exponentially more then any other country

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Mismanagement is a smokescreen. The insane prices are totally purposeful because America is ruled by evil greedy psychopaths.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 3

Might just be bad data. The billing is super complicated. Like that might be what's billed, but a large amount the hospital can't collect.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Or some of it could be double counted. Aka the hospital did X deliveries, and the maternity ward did Y. But X and Y have some duplicates.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Both.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Both. They don't really have to compete to set prices, and the people they buy equipment from have rigged their own system. All of this gets

8 years ago | Likes 31 Dislikes 0

passed onto the "consumer", but should society really be "consuming" healthcare? Healthcare should be a universal right.

8 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 1

The problem stems from so many issues the only way to fix it would be to burn the industry to the ground and start fresh. It's psychotic.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes.

8 years ago | Likes 41 Dislikes 1

They forgot to add the taxes paid for healthcare. This is just the number on the bill.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Doesn't help that we're all fatties in America :p

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It's the medical sector lobbying for favorable regulation and also Americans like nice things, American hospitals are like hotels.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

So you also pay for lots of services that don't increase the success of a procedure but rise the costs.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Also prices are kept artificially low in other countries making the gap even larger.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

TL;DR stop fucking with the medical system

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Insurance abstracts cost away from the consumer, result: impossible to have competition

8 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 1

It's because a vast majority of mothers are being scared into C-Sections in the US. Good old corruption.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

The chart mentions private healthcare. So in all of those it's for profit.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Honestly? It's mostly because the prices listed in the American system are pure fiction.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

For a LOT of profit.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Both. Our system is structured to make everything as expensive as possible.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

SOME of it is how much private healthcare spends on research in the US vs. elsewhere. Some of it is because people with no coverage still-

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 6

US companies spend a lot of money on research, to sell the products of that research. Some avenues don't pan out but it's hardly altruism.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It doesn't make sense for private companies to spend massively on research if it can't be recouped. Charitable/government spending, sure.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Research or on commercials/hiring people to buy doctors lunches? Because that's definitely a place where the US differs from the rest.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

No, seriously. Research. $95 billion / year.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I mean other countries have medical research or full coverage too. And don't need to charge $68 for a bandaid.

8 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Oh certainly. But it is true that American medical and pharma companies spend far more on research than anyone else.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Not as a per GDP measure, though. Germany spends more on medical research than the US does as a percentage of GDP

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Are we taking public, private, or both? I was just talking private.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

receive emergency services, so those costs have to be covered by paying patients. And some of it is Because They Can.

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 4

I have a feeling that pie chart isn't exactly equal, and not in a good way

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

there's a pretty good "adam ruins everything" episode about american health care costs

8 years ago | Likes 37 Dislikes 3

Podcast or video. If so which episode?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

https://youtu.be/CeDOQpfaUc8. “Adam Ruins Everything - The Real Reason Hospitals Are So Expensive”

8 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

Sounds like we should be looking into Direct Primary Care... insurance is straight robbing us.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

All accurate except for one thing. It's gotten so bad now that even insurance companies are charged outrageous rates.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Even with healthcare for profit there are systems in the world that fully function. Germany for example uses an All-payer rating system.

8 years ago | Likes 121 Dislikes 3

True. How about healthcare for profit with the US's "pay as you" legislation system, where you bribe (sorry, lobby) to maximise profits?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

But there isn't really competition between hospitals for price - so they can keep raising the price as long as no one does anything.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As a German, the one thing I like about US hospital care is that single-patient rooms seem to be the norm. Around here, 2-patient rooms ...

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 1

Yes, our delivery (US) was in a private room, bath, bed for spouse, nice view etc. it was also 28k (c sec), 6k after insurance.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Even 4-patient rooms should be the norm to a degree for most normal cases

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 2

They still exist in many German hospitals and I find it utterly unacceptable. Why should patients be exposed to the stench of another...

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 4

persons bedpan or the sneezing and coughing of their germ-ridden visitors? And it's a huge confidentiality problem to talk to a doctor...

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

are the norm and some hospitals still fit 4 or more beds in one room. Single rooms are reserved for privately or co-insured patients. I...

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

have paid the difference out of my own pocket in the past because due to social anxiety, I can't spend 24 hours a day with another person...

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

in the room. But even that is not always an option when all single rooms are taken. From a medical perspective, it makes no sense to me...

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

There is a big difference between single-payer and 'for profit'. Like hospitals in Canada are gov't funded but they aren't gov't employees

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They are Provincial Government employees in the vast majority of cases (rather than Federal).

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

its kinda a misconception, hospitals have boards, CEOs, control their own hiring and firing. No healthcare employee is in OPSEU for exampe

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

For instance, the Minister of Health can't fire a doctor or nurse directly, nor could the deputy minister

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Varies Province to Province, but they are generally still civil servants.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Germany's system is mostly public-funded- about 90% of citizens are covered that way. It's not really a "for profit" system in the same way.

8 years ago | Likes 57 Dislikes 1

No but it’s a two class system with both sides getting the most profit out of it.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Germany also has universal coverage, which keeps systems (and costs) more manageable. The US does not.

8 years ago | Likes 27 Dislikes 1

US is 90%+ insured, but in a hodgepodge of solutions

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Both. The hospital “has” to “make up for” people who can’t afford the bill by passing it on to the consumer. The hospital also wants to 1/?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

make a profit, passing on even larger bill to the consumer which is much, much higher than their costs and losses from unpaid bills. 2/?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Additionally distribution, ie the companies that sell goods to the hospital like meds and saline, gouge the fuck out of their prices, 3/?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

which is also passed onto the consumer, all bullshit together with the “but the insurance will cover it!”, which no they fucking won’t 4/5

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

if they can help it. All of it compounds into a “fuck the consumer” system, worsened by money funneled into politicians and the like. 5/5

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It's a lot of factors, but many of them are tied to the profit aspect. For one thing, consumers have to cover the costs of profit.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That is true of every single thing provided by markets, but all of those things get cheaper every year,because no regulation or "insurance".

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Those aren't the only two available reasons for healthcare costs? Nice ultimatum.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I think the two are mutually inclusive...

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Here is a decent video explaining it in a pretty bipartisan way (IMO) https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=healthcare+US

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Short answer: The government sucks and if it got out of healthcare entirely, which it's been involved in for decades, things would be better

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

It's a bloated ad hoc mess of regulatory interference, profit motive unchecked, political partisanship, and a lack of ability to be honest/1

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

about the problems and solve them regardless of who "owns" any given systemic ailment. So basically the same as most Western problems. /2

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

To be honest, that we have such problems to draw so much attention is a testament to the West's success, despite it's significant flaws.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Healthcare is for profit almost everywhere, Britain is actually quite unique in that it had a completely socialised healthcare system,

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

though it's making incremental steps to single payer in recent years.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Pretty sure the UK still has private clinics you can pay to go to

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Obviously, my point is that all healthcare is for profit and in the western world, only the UK attempted to remove profit from the equation

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

completely. France doesn't have socialised healthcare, they have single payer, or some form of it. You can see the difference on the chart

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

between they and the US. I wouldn't argue the US jumps straight to single payer yet, I would start by regulating the market properly and not

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Most OECD nations have socialized healthcare. Private insurance may exist as well, but healthcare is not "for profit almost everywhere".

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

This isn't actually true. They have universal healthcare, which just means the government is paying for it. Most have some form or other of

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

No, universal healthcare means everyone has it. Socialized healthcare means government funded.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

single payer, so it's more along the lines of the government taking out insurance on it's populations behalf, unlike the UK where it

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

pays for and manages an entire system for the task. So in countries like France and Germany for example, healthcare is for profit because

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Also heard U.S. Has The Worst Rate Of Maternal Deaths In The Developed World

8 years ago | Likes 319 Dislikes 40

That is mostly because the poor can't afford basic neonatal care

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

Unlimited dead babies will not convince me to want socialist medicine, also abortion and birth control are a sin!

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 6

- 40% of America

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

Captain Capitalization Strikes Again!

8 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

I heard this too. But from grey’s anatomy lol

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

"One factor affecting the US maternal death rate is the variability in calculation of maternal deaths. The WHO deems maternal deaths...1?

8 years ago | Likes 44 Dislikes 0

to be those occurring within 42 days of the end of pregnancy, whereas the United States Pregnancy Mortality Surveillance System...1/?

8 years ago | Likes 35 Dislikes 0

measures maternal deaths as those occurring within a year of the end of pregnancy." from wiki, source to follow 3/4

8 years ago | Likes 40 Dislikes 1

Interesting difference, though I think it also might have to do with a large immigrant population, esp border states, that have no prenatal.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 3

Nope. Data do not support that.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

I've looked into this extensively, and it actually ties into outdated practices that are still standard, and (of course) drs tendency to +

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

+ dismiss the pain of pregnant women as "normal" instead of screening for a dangerous cause such as HEELP syndrome.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Interestingly enough, the presence of prenatal care made almost no statistical difference in maternal outcome, as it is almost all focused +

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

+ on fetal health.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

well, other countries also have immigrants. you need to stop blaming them for everything.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 4

The worst health outcomes are usually in "black belt" and Appalachia, not the border regions.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Texas has the worst rate of Maternal Deaths in the developed world.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 4

That turned out to be completely wrong. Even the researchers reporting it in the first place were suspicious.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

What basically happened is they changed their way of reporting (as in, the UI), and it recorded a hell of a lot of false positives.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

It's a very complicated problem. There isn't much agreement on why this is or how to solve it.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You are correct, but it's not like there aren't things that are not agreed with consensus to avoid/minimize and also to do, & the tradeoffs

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Really? Cause it seems like the rest of the fucking developed world has solved it just fine.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Also it's only because she's royal that she paid. Everyone else gets free baby delivery here

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

OP was talking about cost regardless of who pays. Like that is the cost to the system.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Thank you for clarifying for me

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

#13 for infant mortality too, last I checked

8 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 5

56th lowest infant mortality. Behind all the rest of the "western" world.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Are u high? it shows us at 170 not 56

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Got to admit, that's the first time I've seen someone rooting FOR the death of babies in this situation.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Count from the bottom. #1 has the highest infanticide

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Oh shit maybe I'm high, they said on The Office marijuana is a memory loss drug

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Stop Typing Like This

8 years ago | Likes 206 Dislikes 14

No You See It Looks More Professional If You Capitalize Every Letter

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 6

*PerFesssional

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Username checks out.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

don'T telL mE hoW tO typE

8 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

yEAH sTOP iT

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

It's the title of his comment

8 years ago | Likes 38 Dislikes 0

Lol

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Than the “Of” should not be capitalized.

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

*then

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Then

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

nO

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

so they pay the most and get the worst? i might be mistaken but it seems like they are doing something wrong

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Gotta look at the definitions. Not the worst when compared correctly.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Sadly I've no sauce for that, but part of my family are dentists and US current dental state is where Poland was in 1910. Blood infection

8 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 5

from rotten teeth should not fucking happen just because you can't afford treatment. It's plain wrong.

8 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 2

Uhm... what? What hallucinogen are you on? Have you actually spent any time in Europe?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

That's what killed my husband and here I am, teeth beginning to rot but not a damn thing I can do to stave it off. MERICA!

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

There may be a lot of things wrong with american healthcare... but dentistry is one area where americans do basically get what they pay for.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

If I remember correctly a large % of the difference is because how we classify the deaths.

8 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 1

I don't doubt you, but a source would be nice.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

Do you know the specifics?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

can you say more about that? because at a glance it sounds like there's disagreement in what a dead person is

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

Well you're basically right. Though a little more nuance us involved.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

From the AMA Handbook on Being a Doctor: "The patient shall be declared dead if: they have passed on, ceased to be, are no more, have /1

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Expired and gone to meet their maker, are a stiff, are bereft of life, rest in peace, are pushing up the daisies, have metabolic processes/2

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

This is just the first article that came up about it. Many factors contribute but classifications seems to be the biggest factor.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

ah okay. i can see the nuance/confusion with births. but the comment above was about *maternal* mortality.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

To Address GWE8613: USA statistics count death of the mother in the year after birth. For other nations, it's 42 days. Huge difference.

8 years ago | Likes 34 Dislikes 2

To add more info: regardless of how its defined, of the countries in that graph only the US has a higher 2015 number than 2000.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

I viewed your link but it isn't about maternal mortality.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Jesus, my kid was delivered for free here. The midwife also does prolonged care 6 weeks after the baby is born to make sure all goes well

8 years ago | Likes 206 Dislikes 5

Same in NZ

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Man, sad i couldn't get a midwife, Also our OB really seems to hate men, kinda awkward.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Same here in Germany

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Pretty much the same in Australia, too, via the Public system. The chart in the OP is the costs for the Private system.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

This chart is taking the non-socialized cost of care. Which shows the US is the most expensive even when terms like “free” are accounted for

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I get that now. I was at work on my phone when I posted this. Didn’t notice that earlier

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

...I was not informed imgur delievered babies.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

v

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Same in NZ. The chart is for Private health here. Which most people dont have cause its pointless with public health.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

My children both cost upwards of $30,000 to be born. No complications or special circumstances whatsoever. One in TX, one in CA.

8 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 0

Uhm... how? Seriously wtf? Also American, even with serious complications in one case it was less than a third of that.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Crazy!

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

20k in Oklahoma. Paid roughly 3k after insurance. Non cesarean normal birth.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Did you prepay at all? Or did you just like show up to the doctor and be like I have baby

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Insurance covered almost the entire cost, but if we weren't insured, yeah, we would've been screwed

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Ahh... you're making the same mistake the Euros in here are.... thinking the "sticker price" is real.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Yeah but did you prepay like months ahead of time?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

I didn't myself pay anything really, because insurance covered it

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yeah even after insurance we still ended up paying around $5k per baby, and we were forced to pre pay or would have been denied care, that >

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

< was in Florida in 04 and 05. With out insurance it would have been around $30k per kid. That's why I only had 2.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Delivered for free in the private sector? Otherwise it's free (not counting taxes) in most of these countries too.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Oh, I’m on my phone and the chart is hard to read. Not sure what a private birthing would be in Canada. Not sure it’s even available

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Jesus where do you live?

8 years ago | Likes 67 Dislikes 3

Germany's the same

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

We have that in Ireland, so this may be where @thevortexmaster lives

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

Was thinking we are free or cheap here. Havent had a kid so wouldn't know.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I’m Canadian

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I’m Canadian

8 years ago | Likes 104 Dislikes 1

Am Canadian, we got the same deal lol

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

You heard it here first, Jesus is Canadian.

8 years ago | Likes 27 Dislikes 0

Hahaha

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Same goes for here in NZ. Our 1st was born was 9weeks early. He had specialist care for 6weeks in the Special Care Baby Unit. Bill $0.00

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Infact they gave us petrol vouchers help towards getting to and from SCBU to be with our baby each day after I was released from hospital.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Where is "here"?

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

The scary socialist countries like f.ex. the nordic ones

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 2

Hahaha I’m Canadian

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Sorry, should have specified. I’m in Canada

8 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

You know over there

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

One of the reasons maternal death rate is so high is because care usually ends once baby is out.

8 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 1

I don’t doubt it

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Hey, at least us Americans get a full 4 weeks off to bond with our new kid. 5 weeks in, the kid is supposed to have a job

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Darn MILLENIALS

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

FYI, my phone auto-capitalized that. How appropriate.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

This thread is so full of bullshit. Your post is a remarkable example.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Why do you feel that way?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Mostly because it's completely not true.... or, to be as charitable as possible, it's completely misinformed.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

You keep saying that but aren't providing reasons or proof.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

If you've spent any time looking at the infection statistics in hospitals (in any system), you'd agree with the US 'consumers'.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

The number one cause of maternal death in the US is cardiovascular disease. Infection is third.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

If you're looking at "time spent in the hospital after labor", you have to understand that very few people in the US want that to be high.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

There isn't enough evidence to link length of stay to maternal mortality. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5588709/

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It can't bee free, maybe you are just not charged and costs are distributed to many, but it ain't free.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

It's free in Australia. Doesn't cost a cent. Nothing.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

So all the medical staff is volunteers and hospitals with all the medical gear were a free gift from someone?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

To be fair, it's covered by our taxes.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Or does the taxman pull wads of money from your wallet while fucking you in the ass?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Haha! No, I got all my tax back this year, plus $500 extra for being a low income earner. ;)

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Sorry, Free of charge at the time. Yes I pay taxes for my healthcare. Everyone knows this when we say free.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Guess I'm a bit sensitive about it due to being taxed raw with no lube for most of my working life.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

You know being surrounded by bunch of people making average pay gushing on how many free goodies they get while paying 70+% rate

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Not quite sure what you mean but I wish you well anyways

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0