mystichead
120241
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The average normal delivery in the United States costs over $10,000. The average bill that parents have to pay is about $3,000. Insurers cover more than $7,000.
In comparison, even the most luxurious pregnancy suite in the U.K in St. Mary's Hospital in London, the cost barely exceeds $9,000 total. In 2015, the Lindo Wing charged £5,670 ($8,900) for 24 hours in a deluxe room and a non-Caesarean delivery.
Also in 2015, research by the International Federation of Health Plans and Truven Health Analytics found that the average fee for a non-Cesarian delivery in the United States was $10,808. That rises to roughly $30,000 after accounting for care given before and after a pregnancy.
The costs are rampant despite the fact that of the OECD countries, the U.S is one of the lowest performers in all health indices, especially related to childbirth.
This is just an indicator of rampant price mismanagement and lack of standardization of medical procedures and systems in the U.S.
This problem costs the American people tens of billions of dollars per year. Money, that could be used to save more lives, and/or treat more people, if not bolster the medical resources.
One thing to note is that this shows the overall cost of the procedures in general to the system, regardless of who pays however much. The lack of standardization of costs and procedural billing is what drives inefficiencies up the roof, with one health provider doing $x while across the street another is doing $2x, and it constantly being in flux.
Another current and future cause and threat to even more increasing prices is the mass consolidation, mergers and acquisitions of large scale health providers into large health systems. These systems end up being the few or sole provider in a region or area and have been shown to bump up the price when assigning the price to any given procedure on any given day. Rural and small suburb areas are actually the worst affected due to a large portion of these providers being predatory in prices while being the sole provider.
One of the core and largest sources for the disgusting prices is because there is little to no market standards for priceing whether from the private market or government or mix.
Remember folks, as long as the cost to the system is high, whether the patient pays it or not, even if the insurance pays half of it, ultimately it will keep the market incentive to keep prices unstable and bloated, for everyone.
40k tax (traveling through the warp ... expecting the daemons in comments)
blzrdphoto
My twin boys stayed 3 months on NICU. Try $600,000
supernatlove
I promise you insurance doesn’t pay 7,000. The prices are so high because insurance will only pay a percentage.
bign4040
You have to go one way or the other. Either socialized healthcare or completely capitalism. The US errors by taking middle ground.
inkeydoo
Shit, cost us over $50K. I had to have a C-section but she was completely healthy when they got her out.
LennyWeisstein
Cool your kid may be in debt just by birth. It's almost like the Original Sin but way more real.
The701
"Ahh good, another little wage slave. Lovely."
RobertGrubb
Not only is it free in Australia, but the government pays you maternity leave.
thevortexmaster
Same in Canada. Up to 18 months maternity leave with pay
ShiaIabeouf
Netherlands it s free
grunk
You're not paying anything but it's not free. The wonders of health care ;-)
IThinkImInLoveWithMargot
Yeah, but our hospital patients get more thoughts and prayers than other countries.
Whycantanyonedotherunningman
Evi1Gav
The USA pays per capita around three times what the UK pays towards healthcare, yet doesn't have universal health care.
The701
And too many of us are too busy patting ourselves on the back for being the best place in the Universe in general to notice that we're kind
The701
of shit in several ways.
TheMimosaTree
Just got out of the medical billing field and this is 100 accurate. Fucking thieves posing as doctors it's mad.
mystichead
I used to intern as a data analyst for a hospital in their health informatics and billing dept, that's one of the reason this struck a cord
VivianFox
This is why I see doctors like lawyers. They both have to go to school for a while, and sometimes you need them, but I'd never trust them.
vanillamellow
US is a garbage place to live, especially for healthcare.
olysarg
I feel very lucky we have the NHS.
GreaterDog
I like the "You only have to pay [$$$$] after insurance though!" as if insurance wasn't costing you in one way or another. My employer-paid
GreaterDog
insurance is worth over $700/mo.
worddodger
And the amount you pay AFTER insurance is more than how much most other developed countries pay.
MadMupp
You guys in the US need to sort your shit out
wadatahmydamie
US resident here. Can confirm. Our last election, we got to choose between a fat corrupt clown and a health industry shill.
FunctioningWorkaholic
What is this “paying” of medical treatments? Isn’t it free?
dieselpunk
Someone is providing a service to meet a need. Of course it's not free.
StillNotYouTube
Nothing is free
CrowbarJones
Less than 1000$ for both of mine out of pocket here in the US. I think that price is before insurance
flover
Ditto on mine and then 5 years later we got $ back. Apparently they over charged & got audited.
thundercactus
No but privatization lowers cost though /s LOL
Trelkeen
We haven't had a privatized healthcare system for almost decades and decades.... Research is your friend not your enemy.
thundercactus
1. I was being sarcastic (see "/s") 2. Who is "we"?
Trelkeen
1. I was unaware /s = sarcasm and 2. if you cannot figure out who "we" is based on the antecedent then i can't really help you out man
thundercactus
It's a country that doesn't have a privatized healthcare system, okay, so that narrows it down to about 32 countries
Trelkeen
Reference antecedent in op
BigFatUglyBugFaceBabyEatingOBrian
So we're all in consensus that our healthcare is completely fucked in the US and by all rights shouldn't be, right? Now what?
The701
Sink the Capitol building into the swamp while Congress is fully in session*, 6 feet of concrete over it, and try again?
The701
* - I know that'll never happen. Gotta be out campaigning to keep their cushy jobs, no time to be at work.
MemeWay
wait old shits there die and vote your generation in power don't fuck up this time
BigFatUglyBugFaceBabyEatingOBrian
Sadly don't think it's built on top of a swamp
The701
Swamps do at least support an active ecosystem and serve a useful purpose.
BigFatUglyBugFaceBabyEatingOBrian
Munchman347
Buy first class tickets to Spain, vacation for a few weeks, have kid, vacay some more, fly home, still save money...WTF???
malpeCosmosRunner
Prior to tha ACA(Obamacare) half of all bankruptcy cases were due to healthcare expenses and half of those cases had insurance. http://time.
malpeCosmosRunner
http://time.com/money/4765443/obamacare-bankruptcy-decline/
DougForcett
I have 3 kids. My oldest was born when I was in the Army. Out of pocket cost = $0 (thanks Tri-care). The 2nd was born when I had a job (1)
Cheomesh
Tri-care, by virtue of the American Taxpayer.
DougForcett
True. To be fair though, until about E-5, Tri-care is the mIn source of compensation for enlisted soldiers. Lol.
thetonestarr
Was in the army for both, but my children's births were $30k/ea billed to Tricare. No special circumstances whatsoever. 1 in TX, 1 in CA.
DougForcett
To clarify all 3 of mine were very expensive also. I'm talking about what I had to pay that my insurance wouldn't cover.
DougForcett
with co-pay based Insurance. Out of pocket cost = $350. The youngest was born with a deductible-based plan. Out of pocket cost = $3900. (2)
DougForcett
Moral of the story is I should have had all my kids while I was still in the Army. Also, health care reform would be really nice. (3)
Siggs
Did you have kids before the Affordable care act?
DougForcett
The first two were before. But the last one was after. But the ACA was too expensive for us since I was eligible for coverage through work.
rainbowcoloredpoop
From the Netherlands. Had a home birth under guidance from a midwife (who also handled the whole pregnancy appointments). Postnatal care 1/2
rainbowcoloredpoop
2/2 for a week at home from a trained professional who also helped with cleaning and baby care. Paid €0 out of pocket. Insurance paid it all
rainbowcoloredpoop
(Postnatal care was 8 days total, 5 to 6 hours a day). Without insurance I would've paid €3000 for the whole pregnancy and postnatal.
RuffleMyFluffles
*cough* weird how Canada isnt on that list
mystichead
That's because the cost to the healthcare system is lower
DVSBSTrD
The problem with Canada is there's not enough doctors to go around.
darkdragonempress
Surprisingly that seems to be an issue almost everywhere. We aren’t producing enough medical professionals.
DVSBSTrD
I'm not surprised. It must suck being a doctor.
PrinceSatisfactory
Idk about being a doctor, but trying to get into medical school sucks ass
nooowhaaaat
CA-NA-DA CA-NA-DA CA-NA-DA
CerisCinderwolf
My daughter was free cost... blame Canada. :p In all seriousness, fuck the U.S. healthcare system. They know it's a joke and laugh all 1/2
CerisCinderwolf
the way to the fucking bank about it.
MultiplePersonalitiesProfile
The fact that Cuba has a lower infant mortality than we in US says a lot about our health system.
bigassballs1
The problem is this. We also save a lot of babies that would be considered terminal at birth. The U.S. has the best NICU system anywhere. 1
bigassballs1
We also perform a MASSIVE number of life saving procedures/surgeries that in almost any other country wouldn't be even considered.
Trelkeen
If you honestly have done so little research that you believe this then clearly our education system has failed you...
icameheretolaughbutleftdisappointed
TwattyMcTwatface
Do Americans think they’re the only country with freedom?
thundercactus
No, but they're the only country that holds freedom above the greater good. #freedomboner
thevortexmaster
They think they are number one in freedom but they are close to 18th in overall freedom.
SteveMND
Four things you don't want the Free Market to control: your health, your education, your justice, and your politics.
Saustino
Our education and justice system in America is completely fucked and it’s completely run by government. What the hell are you talking about?
SolarFusionProduct
The “free market” currently manages none of those things. The government ruined each of them.
hardytardigrade
Also police, fire department, military, community infrastructure, charity/welfare, environmental protection, waste management, zoning...
Aramis424
ie, justice and politics. As the person said...
hardytardigrade
It is just to provide those things equally, and some are in politically charged areas, but that doesn't make them all justice and politics.
anarkos
Wrong, wrong, right, wrong.
Siggs
BuT pRoFiTs ArE BaD
worddodger
I agree. Yet, healthcare we have in America is even worse than it would be under free market control.
PacomeDeCardognac
Your transport. Good god they should not come near the transport.
DVSBSTrD
Overturn Citizen United and we can start on the rest. Oh wait, Hillary has no charisma so FUCK everything we stand for.
WorldsSmallestMegaDick
What's wrong with citizens United? I like the NAACP they should have a voice and even then I want to listen.
TheClayKnight
NAACP has been around doing work for a lot longer than Citizens United has applied.
WorldsSmallestMegaDick
Yeah and a lot of the foundations for citizens United originate from NAACP v Alabama and NAACP v Button
nibbley
so the things that matter then hmmmmmm maybe this 'free market' is just shit
TheMajesticHarpyEagle
It works for luxuries. And only luxuries
WorldsSmallestMegaDick
Have you bought bread?
TheMajesticHarpyEagle
Yes?
WorldsSmallestMegaDick
Oh wow look at that market working on a non luxury
RavensX1X
You say on an app that would never exist outside of a free market economy, on a phone/comp you would never have outside a free market system
Uglysteve
Our education system it a total shitshow.
BarrettM
So you are saying the government way of doing is a terrible way of doing it?
Uglysteve
DVSBSTrD
I think "shitshow" counts as abstinence only sex ed.
Siggs
Coincidentally, nowhere near resembling the free market
ProphetTenebrae
Is it rampant price mismanagement or is it just because healthcare is for profit?
[deleted]
[deleted]
MouseTheFooDog
Yes.
QuackQuackAttack
My kid’s delivery was 28k (C section) at a non profit hospital. And Europe has for profit medical care too - Phizer, J&J, GE etc.
PastryNugget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8 A lot of the costs thrown around aren't real prices.
dangerousDoc
Price mismanagement. We need to address that before we can fix our healthcare system as we pay exponentially more then any other country
SnugglesaurusRex
Mismanagement is a smokescreen. The insane prices are totally purposeful because America is ruled by evil greedy psychopaths.
barnwolf
Might just be bad data. The billing is super complicated. Like that might be what's billed, but a large amount the hospital can't collect.
barnwolf
Or some of it could be double counted. Aka the hospital did X deliveries, and the maternity ward did Y. But X and Y have some duplicates.
Findingabetterway
Both.
namiasdf
Both. They don't really have to compete to set prices, and the people they buy equipment from have rigged their own system. All of this gets
namiasdf
passed onto the "consumer", but should society really be "consuming" healthcare? Healthcare should be a universal right.
Sonicdahedgie
The problem stems from so many issues the only way to fix it would be to burn the industry to the ground and start fresh. It's psychotic.
ExaDeuce
Yes
Tassyr
Yes.
Pwnius
They forgot to add the taxes paid for healthcare. This is just the number on the bill.
ElbowDeepInAHeadlessHorseman
Doesn't help that we're all fatties in America :p
marsgoose
It's the medical sector lobbying for favorable regulation and also Americans like nice things, American hospitals are like hotels.
marsgoose
So you also pay for lots of services that don't increase the success of a procedure but rise the costs.
marsgoose
Also prices are kept artificially low in other countries making the gap even larger.
marsgoose
TL;DR stop fucking with the medical system
T3sl4co1l
Insurance abstracts cost away from the consumer, result: impossible to have competition
DoubleBacaCheseBurgerForACop
It's because a vast majority of mothers are being scared into C-Sections in the US. Good old corruption.
catfoodstudios
The chart mentions private healthcare. So in all of those it's for profit.
kiruwa
Honestly? It's mostly because the prices listed in the American system are pure fiction.
cousteau
For a LOT of profit.
12rt2345g342563
Both. Our system is structured to make everything as expensive as possible.
Promethianfire
SOME of it is how much private healthcare spends on research in the US vs. elsewhere. Some of it is because people with no coverage still-
Secsletariat
US companies spend a lot of money on research, to sell the products of that research. Some avenues don't pan out but it's hardly altruism.
Secsletariat
It doesn't make sense for private companies to spend massively on research if it can't be recouped. Charitable/government spending, sure.
NexiKuro
Research or on commercials/hiring people to buy doctors lunches? Because that's definitely a place where the US differs from the rest.
Promethianfire
No, seriously. Research. $95 billion / year.
shhep
I mean other countries have medical research or full coverage too. And don't need to charge $68 for a bandaid.
Promethianfire
Oh certainly. But it is true that American medical and pharma companies spend far more on research than anyone else.
ForgotMyOtherAcct
Not as a per GDP measure, though. Germany spends more on medical research than the US does as a percentage of GDP
Promethianfire
Are we taking public, private, or both? I was just talking private.
Promethianfire
receive emergency services, so those costs have to be covered by paying patients. And some of it is Because They Can.
veyrall
I have a feeling that pie chart isn't exactly equal, and not in a good way
ManWithFace
there's a pretty good "adam ruins everything" episode about american health care costs
ThatWhineInYourEars
Podcast or video. If so which episode?
whoknowswhoitis
https://youtu.be/CeDOQpfaUc8. “Adam Ruins Everything - The Real Reason Hospitals Are So Expensive”
seige89365
Sounds like we should be looking into Direct Primary Care... insurance is straight robbing us.
worddodger
All accurate except for one thing. It's gotten so bad now that even insurance companies are charged outrageous rates.
mystichead
Even with healthcare for profit there are systems in the world that fully function. Germany for example uses an All-payer rating system.
ProphetTenebrae
True. How about healthcare for profit with the US's "pay as you" legislation system, where you bribe (sorry, lobby) to maximise profits?
RegaraHontha
But there isn't really competition between hospitals for price - so they can keep raising the price as long as no one does anything.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
As a German, the one thing I like about US hospital care is that single-patient rooms seem to be the norm. Around here, 2-patient rooms ...
QuackQuackAttack
Yes, our delivery (US) was in a private room, bath, bed for spouse, nice view etc. it was also 28k (c sec), 6k after insurance.
IKnowYouHateMeYes
Even 4-patient rooms should be the norm to a degree for most normal cases
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
They still exist in many German hospitals and I find it utterly unacceptable. Why should patients be exposed to the stench of another...
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
persons bedpan or the sneezing and coughing of their germ-ridden visitors? And it's a huge confidentiality problem to talk to a doctor...
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
are the norm and some hospitals still fit 4 or more beds in one room. Single rooms are reserved for privately or co-insured patients. I...
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
have paid the difference out of my own pocket in the past because due to social anxiety, I can't spend 24 hours a day with another person...
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
in the room. But even that is not always an option when all single rooms are taken. From a medical perspective, it makes no sense to me...
SeanBeanDiesAlot
There is a big difference between single-payer and 'for profit'. Like hospitals in Canada are gov't funded but they aren't gov't employees
PugPugPugPug
They are Provincial Government employees in the vast majority of cases (rather than Federal).
SeanBeanDiesAlot
its kinda a misconception, hospitals have boards, CEOs, control their own hiring and firing. No healthcare employee is in OPSEU for exampe
SeanBeanDiesAlot
For instance, the Minister of Health can't fire a doctor or nurse directly, nor could the deputy minister
PugPugPugPug
Varies Province to Province, but they are generally still civil servants.
hardytardigrade
Germany's system is mostly public-funded- about 90% of citizens are covered that way. It's not really a "for profit" system in the same way.
ZimGenzko
No but it’s a two class system with both sides getting the most profit out of it.
hardytardigrade
Germany also has universal coverage, which keeps systems (and costs) more manageable. The US does not.
QuackQuackAttack
US is 90%+ insured, but in a hodgepodge of solutions
Bstone1
Both. The hospital “has” to “make up for” people who can’t afford the bill by passing it on to the consumer. The hospital also wants to 1/?
Bstone1
make a profit, passing on even larger bill to the consumer which is much, much higher than their costs and losses from unpaid bills. 2/?
Bstone1
Additionally distribution, ie the companies that sell goods to the hospital like meds and saline, gouge the fuck out of their prices, 3/?
Bstone1
which is also passed onto the consumer, all bullshit together with the “but the insurance will cover it!”, which no they fucking won’t 4/5
Bstone1
if they can help it. All of it compounds into a “fuck the consumer” system, worsened by money funneled into politicians and the like. 5/5
hardytardigrade
It's a lot of factors, but many of them are tied to the profit aspect. For one thing, consumers have to cover the costs of profit.
Noumenon72
That is true of every single thing provided by markets, but all of those things get cheaper every year,because no regulation or "insurance".
SerialChillinSpree
Those aren't the only two available reasons for healthcare costs? Nice ultimatum.
Starcatcher1986
Yes
Munchman347
I think the two are mutually inclusive...
Crazywelderguy
Here is a decent video explaining it in a pretty bipartisan way (IMO) https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=healthcare+US
thrashinuva
Short answer: The government sucks and if it got out of healthcare entirely, which it's been involved in for decades, things would be better
squip
It's a bloated ad hoc mess of regulatory interference, profit motive unchecked, political partisanship, and a lack of ability to be honest/1
squip
about the problems and solve them regardless of who "owns" any given systemic ailment. So basically the same as most Western problems. /2
squip
To be honest, that we have such problems to draw so much attention is a testament to the West's success, despite it's significant flaws.
TheRealHS
Healthcare is for profit almost everywhere, Britain is actually quite unique in that it had a completely socialised healthcare system,
TheRealHS
though it's making incremental steps to single payer in recent years.
ThePickle
Pretty sure the UK still has private clinics you can pay to go to
TheRealHS
Obviously, my point is that all healthcare is for profit and in the western world, only the UK attempted to remove profit from the equation
TheRealHS
completely. France doesn't have socialised healthcare, they have single payer, or some form of it. You can see the difference on the chart
TheRealHS
between they and the US. I wouldn't argue the US jumps straight to single payer yet, I would start by regulating the market properly and not
hardytardigrade
Most OECD nations have socialized healthcare. Private insurance may exist as well, but healthcare is not "for profit almost everywhere".
TheRealHS
This isn't actually true. They have universal healthcare, which just means the government is paying for it. Most have some form or other of
hardytardigrade
No, universal healthcare means everyone has it. Socialized healthcare means government funded.
TheRealHS
single payer, so it's more along the lines of the government taking out insurance on it's populations behalf, unlike the UK where it
TheRealHS
pays for and manages an entire system for the task. So in countries like France and Germany for example, healthcare is for profit because
Contundo
Also heard U.S. Has The Worst Rate Of Maternal Deaths In The Developed World
Sandyundertones
That is mostly because the poor can't afford basic neonatal care
override367
Unlimited dead babies will not convince me to want socialist medicine, also abortion and birth control are a sin!
override367
- 40% of America
Gunthex
Captain Capitalization Strikes Again!
basicwhitelich
138 highest out of 184 (lowest is Greece) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2223rank.html#
nwall123
I heard this too. But from grey’s anatomy lol
ThisMahSwamp
"One factor affecting the US maternal death rate is the variability in calculation of maternal deaths. The WHO deems maternal deaths...1?
ThisMahSwamp
to be those occurring within 42 days of the end of pregnancy, whereas the United States Pregnancy Mortality Surveillance System...1/?
ThisMahSwamp
measures maternal deaths as those occurring within a year of the end of pregnancy." from wiki, source to follow 3/4
ThisMahSwamp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal_mortality_in_the_United_States 4/4
themuttonisniceandlean
Interesting difference, though I think it also might have to do with a large immigrant population, esp border states, that have no prenatal.
asquiiiiiiisha
Nope. Data do not support that.
imnotarealgiraffe
I've looked into this extensively, and it actually ties into outdated practices that are still standard, and (of course) drs tendency to +
imnotarealgiraffe
+ dismiss the pain of pregnant women as "normal" instead of screening for a dangerous cause such as HEELP syndrome.
imnotarealgiraffe
Interestingly enough, the presence of prenatal care made almost no statistical difference in maternal outcome, as it is almost all focused +
imnotarealgiraffe
+ on fetal health.
Shoutrr
well, other countries also have immigrants. you need to stop blaming them for everything.
Sandyundertones
The worst health outcomes are usually in "black belt" and Appalachia, not the border regions.
DVSBSTrD
Texas has the worst rate of Maternal Deaths in the developed world.
kiruwa
That turned out to be completely wrong. Even the researchers reporting it in the first place were suspicious.
kiruwa
No, you are wrong: https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/17/health/maternal-mortality-texas-update/index.html
kiruwa
What basically happened is they changed their way of reporting (as in, the UI), and it recorded a hell of a lot of false positives.
hstein3
It's a very complicated problem. There isn't much agreement on why this is or how to solve it.
mystichead
You are correct, but it's not like there aren't things that are not agreed with consensus to avoid/minimize and also to do, & the tradeoffs
Kiotetravels
Really? Cause it seems like the rest of the fucking developed world has solved it just fine.
oynsy
Also it's only because she's royal that she paid. Everyone else gets free baby delivery here
ShutTheFrontDoors
OP was talking about cost regardless of who pays. Like that is the cost to the system.
mystichead
Thank you for clarifying for me
basicwhitelich
#13 for infant mortality too, last I checked
basicwhitelich
Nm, we're 56/225. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
56th lowest infant mortality. Behind all the rest of the "western" world.
TheFeralDog
Are u high? it shows us at 170 not 56
WellIsThisTaken
Got to admit, that's the first time I've seen someone rooting FOR the death of babies in this situation.
basicwhitelich
Count from the bottom. #1 has the highest infanticide
TheFeralDog
Oh shit maybe I'm high, they said on The Office marijuana is a memory loss drug
MadeThisAccountToCorrectSomeone
Stop Typing Like This
HotPocketMemes
No You See It Looks More Professional If You Capitalize Every Letter
trhopkins
*PerFesssional
FlossyMayhem
Username checks out.
NotTheSharpestSpoonInTheDrawer
don'T telL mE hoW tO typE
trhopkins
yEAH sTOP iT
AyYoItsPrisonMike
It's the title of his comment
TheRicM
Lol
Enoan
Than the “Of” should not be capitalized.
attackofthequokka
*then
TinySnek
Then
Jakefroomstatefarm
nO
Vatafeo
so they pay the most and get the worst? i might be mistaken but it seems like they are doing something wrong
Whatdid
Gotta look at the definitions. Not the worst when compared correctly.
shhep
Sadly I've no sauce for that, but part of my family are dentists and US current dental state is where Poland was in 1910. Blood infection
shhep
from rotten teeth should not fucking happen just because you can't afford treatment. It's plain wrong.
kiruwa
Uhm... what? What hallucinogen are you on? Have you actually spent any time in Europe?
Kiotetravels
That's what killed my husband and here I am, teeth beginning to rot but not a damn thing I can do to stave it off. MERICA!
kiruwa
There may be a lot of things wrong with american healthcare... but dentistry is one area where americans do basically get what they pay for.
Contundo
https://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2017/05/propublica-mortality-rates.png
ATG2644
If I remember correctly a large % of the difference is because how we classify the deaths.
NotTheSharpestSpoonInTheDrawer
I don't doubt you, but a source would be nice.
ATG2644
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161013103132.htm
NotTheSharpestSpoonInTheDrawer
Thank you, interesting read
MultiplePersonalitiesProfile
Do you know the specifics?
MadsBen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal_mortality_in_the_United_States
whatupmyknitters
can you say more about that? because at a glance it sounds like there's disagreement in what a dead person is
ATG2644
Well you're basically right. Though a little more nuance us involved.
Hamncheezsandwich
From the AMA Handbook on Being a Doctor: "The patient shall be declared dead if: they have passed on, ceased to be, are no more, have /1
Hamncheezsandwich
Expired and gone to meet their maker, are a stiff, are bereft of life, rest in peace, are pushing up the daisies, have metabolic processes/2
ATG2644
This is just the first article that came up about it. Many factors contribute but classifications seems to be the biggest factor.
ATG2644
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161013103132.htm
whatupmyknitters
ah okay. i can see the nuance/confusion with births. but the comment above was about *maternal* mortality.
GoldenRamoth
To Address GWE8613: USA statistics count death of the mother in the year after birth. For other nations, it's 42 days. Huge difference.
OnlyPositiveComments
To add more info: regardless of how its defined, of the countries in that graph only the US has a higher 2015 number than 2000.
BarrettM
Um... No they dont. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_and_under-five_mortality_rates
OnlyPositiveComments
I viewed your link but it isn't about maternal mortality.
OnlyPositiveComments
Then the graph's wrong, have a look. https://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2017/05/propublica-mortality-rates.png
thevortexmaster
Jesus, my kid was delivered for free here. The midwife also does prolonged care 6 weeks after the baby is born to make sure all goes well
lashez
Same in NZ
zFUBARz
Man, sad i couldn't get a midwife, Also our OB really seems to hate men, kinda awkward.
HerrFraeulein
Same here in Germany
CausticSoda
Pretty much the same in Australia, too, via the Public system. The chart in the OP is the costs for the Private system.
QuackQuackAttack
This chart is taking the non-socialized cost of care. Which shows the US is the most expensive even when terms like “free” are accounted for
thevortexmaster
I get that now. I was at work on my phone when I posted this. Didn’t notice that earlier
Proxymanity
...I was not informed imgur delievered babies.
thevortexmaster
GwynethPaltrowLeaderOfTheRebulicOfCrystalFedAnsuses
Same in NZ. The chart is for Private health here. Which most people dont have cause its pointless with public health.
thetonestarr
My children both cost upwards of $30,000 to be born. No complications or special circumstances whatsoever. One in TX, one in CA.
kiruwa
Uhm... how? Seriously wtf? Also American, even with serious complications in one case it was less than a third of that.
thevortexmaster
Crazy!
ImgurDemonym
20k in Oklahoma. Paid roughly 3k after insurance. Non cesarean normal birth.
WorldsSmallestMegaDick
Did you prepay at all? Or did you just like show up to the doctor and be like I have baby
thetonestarr
Insurance covered almost the entire cost, but if we weren't insured, yeah, we would've been screwed
kiruwa
Ahh... you're making the same mistake the Euros in here are.... thinking the "sticker price" is real.
WorldsSmallestMegaDick
Yeah but did you prepay like months ahead of time?
thetonestarr
I didn't myself pay anything really, because insurance covered it
Findingabetterway
Yeah even after insurance we still ended up paying around $5k per baby, and we were forced to pre pay or would have been denied care, that >
Findingabetterway
< was in Florida in 04 and 05. With out insurance it would have been around $30k per kid. That's why I only had 2.
Norua
Delivered for free in the private sector? Otherwise it's free (not counting taxes) in most of these countries too.
thevortexmaster
Oh, I’m on my phone and the chart is hard to read. Not sure what a private birthing would be in Canada. Not sure it’s even available
cauliflowersweetandsour
Jesus where do you live?
KarlderMarder
Germany's the same
ItsCaptain0bvious
We have that in Ireland, so this may be where @thevortexmaster lives
imsmallfry
Was thinking we are free or cheap here. Havent had a kid so wouldn't know.
thevortexmaster
I’m Canadian
thevortexmaster
I’m Canadian
CrazyAceNinja
Am Canadian, we got the same deal lol
wizardblizzard
You heard it here first, Jesus is Canadian.
thevortexmaster
Hahaha
AmaIthea
Same goes for here in NZ. Our 1st was born was 9weeks early. He had specialist care for 6weeks in the Special Care Baby Unit. Bill $0.00
AmaIthea
Infact they gave us petrol vouchers help towards getting to and from SCBU to be with our baby each day after I was released from hospital.
PoopTrainDix
Where is "here"?
GlebReawer
The scary socialist countries like f.ex. the nordic ones
thevortexmaster
Hahaha I’m Canadian
thevortexmaster
Sorry, should have specified. I’m in Canada
SmurfEggs
You know over there
SippyTurtle
One of the reasons maternal death rate is so high is because care usually ends once baby is out.
thevortexmaster
I don’t doubt it
Zentelis
Hey, at least us Americans get a full 4 weeks off to bond with our new kid. 5 weeks in, the kid is supposed to have a job
SippyTurtle
Darn MILLENIALS
SippyTurtle
FYI, my phone auto-capitalized that. How appropriate.
kiruwa
This thread is so full of bullshit. Your post is a remarkable example.
SippyTurtle
Why do you feel that way?
kiruwa
Mostly because it's completely not true.... or, to be as charitable as possible, it's completely misinformed.
SippyTurtle
You keep saying that but aren't providing reasons or proof.
kiruwa
If you've spent any time looking at the infection statistics in hospitals (in any system), you'd agree with the US 'consumers'.
SippyTurtle
The number one cause of maternal death in the US is cardiovascular disease. Infection is third.
kiruwa
If you're looking at "time spent in the hospital after labor", you have to understand that very few people in the US want that to be high.
SippyTurtle
There isn't enough evidence to link length of stay to maternal mortality. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5588709/
marsgoose
It can't bee free, maybe you are just not charged and costs are distributed to many, but it ain't free.
verylittleinsight
It's free in Australia. Doesn't cost a cent. Nothing.
marsgoose
So all the medical staff is volunteers and hospitals with all the medical gear were a free gift from someone?
verylittleinsight
To be fair, it's covered by our taxes.
marsgoose
Or does the taxman pull wads of money from your wallet while fucking you in the ass?
verylittleinsight
Haha! No, I got all my tax back this year, plus $500 extra for being a low income earner. ;)
thevortexmaster
Sorry, Free of charge at the time. Yes I pay taxes for my healthcare. Everyone knows this when we say free.
marsgoose
Guess I'm a bit sensitive about it due to being taxed raw with no lube for most of my working life.
marsgoose
You know being surrounded by bunch of people making average pay gushing on how many free goodies they get while paying 70+% rate
thevortexmaster
Not quite sure what you mean but I wish you well anyways