maximilianfragglebottom
82615
3702
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Sep 2, 2020 6:44 PM
maximilianfragglebottom
82615
3702
214
severous96
So he is a combat veteran that will let looters burn down his friends and neighbors homes and property. No much more I can say.
MininMark
justmemyselfi
This is the best discussion of this I’ve heard. I wish I could give more upvotes
ab47203
Would almost bet my left nut that trump will pardon him
IBroughtASpareDrainpipe
The little trump moron won't have his case heard for a year or so. trump will be in prison by then.
testosterony
Wrong
MutteringMisanthrope
CatsAndBikesAndCarsAndBeer
Combat doesn’t make you an expert on law nor self defense. Here is an actual lawyer discussing it. https://youtu.be/NSU9ZvnudFE
mainzy123360
He literally says 'just a perspective'... And from mine the USA enables teen killers and elects trumps and I might delete imgur from boredom
somedudeyoumightknow
He's an NRA activist. Beyond biased source.
TrollLevel
this
CatsAndBikesAndCarsAndBeer
Caution some graphic video as he breaks down damn near every camera angle of the shootings.
haggerton
What do you call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? There's a reason why such jokes exist. They will advocate for anything.
imgurisgo
He had as much right as anyone to be there, He was also trying to help any injured, He was also protecting himself.
Emyrryl
Were they rioting? Yes. Does that give you the right to cross state lines and commit terrorism, no. Responding to violence with more
DangerTrain
You can't commit "violence" against property. Property damage isn't violence, it's property damage.
Emyrryl
Got what, OH MORE FUCKING VIOLENCE! LOOK AT THAT
IDownvoteAllPoliticalPosts
You can be a vet and still be wrong
WeAreJustDustInTheWind
If I where to go and defend a store I would not show up with Thoughts and Prayers, when so many YT filmed by both sides shows how bad it is
suffragettecity3639
Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
jwillywill
VultureTX
Sorry never mix international laws (geneva conventions) with State laws especially when you are not a lawyer and or a veteran cop.
malexmatt
Not that 'I'm a combat veteran...' qualifies someone to talk about international laws, either.
AntennaDibb
so it doesn't matter if the kid is qualified as an insurgent, terrorist, and willing combatant by nations across the world?
VultureTX
they don't have jurisdiction now do they? and the GC does not apply ..yet.
AntennaDibb
the point isn't that the kid should be convicted because he's a willing combatant by the GC, its the fact that he is classified as one.
VultureTX
GC is for "humanitarian treatment in war. " are we at war? with whom? You do know that "at war" means CinC Trump can use troops legally.
AntennaDibb
so we have to be at war with something for someone who checks all the boxes to be considered a willing combatant to be a willing combatant?
BednaR
Going a bit off main occurrence here... according to this definition, roof top Koreans who went away and came back with weapons are... what?
flarflarf
defending their property, not driving half an hour to where people were rioting looking for an excuse to kill someone.
justarandomfandom
Well they were directly defending their own property and stayed on said property, that's a different discussion.
jakjaksrevenge
My point exactly. And to this day are hailed as liberal heroes. I feel what they did was right same in this instance. Kyle worked at the sto
jakjaksrevenge
Store he was defending.
JoeHarkins
I guess you haven't seen him wandering around posing with his weapon.
jakjaksrevenge
I've seen the videos and the convo he had beforehand. He literally states he worked for the store.
JoeHarkins
Until that is verified independently, I'm not going to take his word for it.
StellarJay77
Legally sanctioned by the government through law as they were protecting their own property.
jakjaksrevenge
He worked at thebstore he was defending what are you talking about.
Amylol
He was friends with the store owner who asked him and his friend to come protect it. Supposedly his other two stores already had been burned
n0n53n53
bingo ... they weren't running around the streets acting like wannabe swat team, even though they were being encouraged by the police
J0765
Defending their property
whoisyourdaddy
Don't bring a gun to a protest. Bring rocks, skateboards, and bottles. That way this guy will like you.
FroopyHood
And hand guns, just no rifles.
FinishingCarpentry
Yes. FUCKING YES!
NessaAesyth
Meanwhile when they show up without guns, they just end up dead, and no one even mentions their name on the news.
DangerTrain
What are you even talking about? Who is "they"?
jakjaksrevenge
True.
WhyCantIHaveADog
I keep coming back to how his mom DROPPED HIM OFF in this situation. That’s insane. This could only end in death. Completely avoidable.
WhyCantIHaveADog
And an ADULT asked him to come and defend his car lot?! Crazy. So, Mom says, “Sure, my most precious baby child. I’ll meet you in the car.”
malexmatt
I mean, this is the guy's car lot; https://www.tmj4.com/news/national/businesses-damaged-in-kenosha-unrest-working-to-recover
WhyCantIHaveADog
Not worth endangering anyone’s life.
malexmatt
Those cars EXPLODED. That IS endangering people's life.
WhyCantIHaveADog
Yes, but why bring in a friend and put them in danger too?
malexmatt
he may have been a bit desperate
WhyCantIHaveADog
I’m sympathetic towards the businesses, but that’s no place for a teenager with a gun. The owner could not have known what he was asking.
malexmatt
I actually agree, the teenager should not have been there. But, then again, neither should the rioters have been there.
Humandisinterest
In a state where open carry is legal that statement is plainly incorrect.
DangerTrain
He was underage and illegally crossed state lines with a weapon, while being too young to legally open carry. You're plainly incorrect.
UnitedGalactic
He is underage, that is a crime.
SlackerTactical
In some states possession of a long gun by someone 17 is legal. [Not a lawyer, so idk about Wisconsin's law on the matter]
williamrichards
Unless he has a hunting license, it's illegal. You have to strongly suspect that if he had one, the attorney world have mentioned it.
hoshanabanana
When I got my handgun and license to carry, this was painfully clear. You beat be goddamn responsible and start no shit. No cowboy hubris.
Amylol
Running away and only shooting people who are within 3 yard attacking him is cowboys hubris? Haven't seen that John Wayne movie.
jayman0123
Driving across state lines to find someone to defend yourself against without having a legal carry permit???
Amylol
If he was trying to shoot someone, why was he constantly trying to run away? Only shooting when he was pushed to the limit?
jayman0123
If he showed up only to run away why would he cross state lines with a rifle illegally??
jayman0123
If you want to protest, protest. But if you have to take a weapon with you, you're doing it wrong. This is why cowards shouldn't have guns.
Laminatedweasel
I’ve got plenty of guns and a license to carry, someone attempting to disarm you is a deadly threat if they have intent to harm you.
jimmityjammity
Someone attempting to disarm you after seeing you kill someone and flee the scene sounds like a good citizen. Don't assume intentions.
Laminatedweasel
You have to assume intentions otherwise self-defense is completely impossible to prove. The courts will decide legality.
jimmityjammity
In your opinion, a school shooter can claim every kill after the initial one is self defense if they make any attempt to disarm them?
Laminatedweasel
Sure he can try claim that in court, doesn’t mean it will be judged as such. Don’t try and disarm someone with a gun who is running away.
Laminatedweasel
If you witness someone use a gun in self-defense do you think you are within your rights to disarm that person? Because legally you are not.
KyleJones6
So like, by this definition literally all the rioters are terrorists/insurgents?
KyleJones6
Sorry, any *armed rioters are terrorists?
oAbaddonsLegion
What violence did he engage in? It is legal to be armed. It's the "they were asking for it" argument.
ChicoSlim
That argument dies in every rape case.
DangerTrain
Is shooting somebody... not violence?
oAbaddonsLegion
What excuse would there be had he been one year older?
oAbaddonsLegion
Him illegally carrying a rifle does not equate to engaging in violence, nor does it allow others to attack him.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
No, it wasn't legal for a 17-year-old to be armed. Neither in his home state of Illinois, which requires a CCL, nor in Wisconsin.
Amylol
Not true. Wisconsin statue it is legal for anyone between 16-17 to open carry a long rifle or shotgun. Gun never crossed state lines.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
This is one of the charges against him. They wouldn't charge him with possession of a dangerous weapon under 18 if it had been legal.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
Nope. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/28/facebook-posts/did-kyle-rittenhouse-break-law-carrying-assault-st/
Amylol
This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in 1/
Amylol
violation of s. 941.28or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304and 29.593. I think state law is more accurate then politicfact.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
Dude. This is one of the charges against him, so obviously it does apply to him. I believe the prosecution knows the law better than you do.
ringwood
Devils advocate? Devils advocate. If you join a riot, where people are rioting, and help defend rioters from cops, you are a rioter.
rainevasquez
You mean cuz you called it a riot? I called it a protest. You renaming it for the convenience of disavowing your conscious isn’t our concern
ringwood
No, the minute people start breaking shit, it's called a riot. I'm not taking a side, I'm just using the EXACT same logic.
GenshiV
You happen to know what Oregon's laws on declaring a riot are? You'll laugh like hell if you see what qualifies...
GenshiV
Here: ORS 166.015¹ Riot. (1) A person commits the crime of riot if while participating with five or more other persons the person engages in
GenshiV
tumultuous and violent conduct and thereby intentionally or recklessly creates a grave risk of causing public alarm.
GenshiV
So a drunk group of friends yelling too loud could elicit the "riot" designation. I didn't even know until our attorney friend told us! Wild
ringwood
Oh I'm sure, but I'm just using the same logic. Blanket statements are idiotic aren't they?
GenshiV
The problem I have with your original point is that the rioters start riots up after the protests begin, but the vast, vast majority of
GenshiV
the protesters are peaceful. They don't defend the rioters, they're unceremoniously thrust into a riot by a few supremely shitty people.
ringwood
And walking around with a firearm is just a constitutional right ?♂️
ejallar21
Good thing Kyle Rittenhouse had the support of the government by way of the police approving and thanking them for being there...
lwbell851337
I do hope that is sarcasm
Selfawerewolf
to be clear here "police on the scene" and "government" are very different entities.
ejallar21
To be clear here "someone helping to defend their community" and "terrorist" are very different entities. Kyle worked in Kenosha...
Selfawerewolf
"Their" community? He lived half an hour away. He was "defending" a gas station. Kyle's a terrorist, feelings don't change that.
ejallar21
He was defending two mechanic's shops at request of the owner, who lost 3/4 of his car dealership the night before.
ejallar21
If the "peaceful protestors" didn't burn down businesses that had NOTHING to do with the shooting, then none of this would have happened...
Selfawerewolf
lol I work half an hour away from where I live too. Where I work is not "my community".
ejallar21
I spend a significant amount of my time at work, so I care what happens there. Yes, my community...
Selfawerewolf
All you're proving is that it's subjective and that you're projecting his moral community obligation onto him.
salmon401
“Don't take your guns to town son Leave your guns at home Bill. Don't take your guns to town”
peruvianfightingmidgets
HanYOLOHNIC
RIP JOHNNY CASH
hwmcbeast
Ah yes. I see you are a man of culture.
mexicanbacon
It was the devil’s right hand.
IambeHeqit
.... Ruby?!
steam0engenius
Ruby doesn't take her love to town. Bill doesn't take his guns. This is because Stray Cats are gonna rock this town inside out.
Willowknowsall
Here's a gun and a juice box I'll drop you off have fun! That kid's shit mom should get charges too
Boil1337
Kenny...
Winstitutionalized
The truth of that song right now...nice.
HeroKillar
PrimeThePump
Is there more of this?
seannikiforuk
The Nashville sessions. They're dynamite, if not sloppy at times.
PrimeThePump
Thank you!
Ltjohnmcclane
? I don't care about the kid but you're absolutely incorrect. If you wanna give your opinion on how combat zones work that's fine but don't
Ltjohnmcclane
try to say "illegal" at the end if you don't know what you're talking about.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
It was illegal for him to carry a weapon in his home state (no CCL under 18) and in Wisconsin (no possession of dangerous weapons under 18).
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
See https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/28/facebook-posts/did-kyle-rittenhouse-break-law-carrying-assault-st/
Ltjohnmcclane
Thank you for sharing. Carrrying the weapon is illegal. But that's not the author is talking about. He's talking about combat zones and
Ltjohnmcclane
not being able to claim self-defense.
xarmypopo
Yea.. those Koreans protecting their shops during the LA riots are terrorists. Stupid fucking argument to make
shuryou
They were defending their own property dipshit, this kid didn't own anything in the town
AvatarTommyBee
It says "arrives at a place" vs "protecting their shops" .. the terrorist comes, the defenders stay put. Life must be hard for you ..
xarmypopo
So he can't help protect a shop because it isn't his? Only owners can protect their own shops?
UnitedGalactic
Hahaha, so desperate.
malexmatt
He was protecting a dealership at the request of the owner. A lot of the Koreans in the LA Riots were community members, too.
ComradeZoidberg
There's one of the major issues. They were defending THEIR shops. He showed up from out of town, while illegally carrying.
xarmypopo
He didn't bring the gun from another state. Its registered in WI. Also it is not illegal for minor to posses long guns under 18 in WI
ComradeZoidberg
For hunting purposes. They may be able to use that to get around it, but as it stands he was still illegally carrying.
xarmypopo
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3444231001
ComradeZoidberg
Yes, it states what I said. It’s ok for him to carry it for hunting. He wasn’t hunting. It’s still illegal.
r3b007
Apples and oranges my dude. I think you missed the overall point.
xarmypopo
Wasn't he defending shops? Who said the shop had to be his to defend it? Can't you defend somebody else's shop?
justarandomfandom
There is a difference between actively seeking out trouble and hunkering down
xarmypopo
He did hunker down until the first incident at the shop then ran because he was being chased. He didn't go looking for the last shot
justarandomfandom
He had to go there. He didn't live there, he wasn't working there at that moment, and he didn't 'happen' to be there when violence 'happened
r3b007
No legally I think you can't, that's the point. Not with a rifle. And if you fire that rifle, there should be questions.
Knilore
Still all fruit. Thats the "overall" point.
r3b007
That made me laugh, I'm not sure why.
Knilore
Food comedy is tastiest.
GenshiV
This has been my argument for everyone that asks why Portland Protesters are, by and large, showing up clad in armor but without weapons.
luvsatire
frozen water bottles, rocks, bricks, large sticks, large fireworks can all be used as weapons. And all have been used in protests.
whoisyourdaddy
Because they plan on rioting and destroying things, but they don't own guns.
VaultGirl69
They actually taught at my college in the South about what defines terrorism. People want to pretend it's only one group, but it's not.
Fastjack2056
What was the lesson? "It's still terrorism even if they're attacking your enemies?"
VaultGirl69
They taught that it's getting people to attack civilians. That's the long and short of it. Fear to instill politics/religion. Nothing more.
Abrausedteleprot
"it's still terrorism even if we funded them" or "It's still terrorism even if our allies funded them."
GenshiV
You want to get shot in America? Show up to protest an armed adversary with a weapon & it's a hell of a lot more likely to happen.
glamdring1
Unless you're white in Carolina apparently. Still blows my mind that they stormed a govt building with rifles and nothing happened.
SometimesIBuildThings
Or go to school.
GenshiV
Man, and I thought I was taking it in a dark direction. Well done. You one upped me.
FBKatB3tadotcom1
Or just live in good old US of A. So glad i live in England. Virtually 0 gun crime low taxes full health care for everyone WooGoo Britain
n0n53n53
low taxes compared to where? I looked up what I'd pay in tax and healthcare in the UK vs what I pay now and the taxes make up for it
Dinos91
God I wish we had that. I'm over 5k in debt for 9 hours in the hospital for a kidney stone
ActualLazyEnhancedXenos
Just curious, are you an American living in England? Relatively speaking my taxes in the US are a third of what they'd be back in England.
Kamasu0Tra
Well apparently Americans may have more pocket cash before tax, but end up spending way more on cost of living then other countries.
ZougasNewFist
Yeah but we have an incompetent tory (trump lovin) government and emboldened racists too. They luckily don't have guns
NCPBullet
I can't cross the border for a pack of smokes without running into 9 countries you've fucked.
terabyteuk
I’ll shoot myself in the head if you can tell me your country’s language.
NCPBullet
JESUS CRIST WHAT FUCKING COLOR WAS THE FLAG
GenshiV
Visited you guys last September, I'd love to move there some day. Except for your ungodly narrow roads, those were often terrifying to me.
FBKatB3tadotcom1
Normal sized roads for normal sized cars, did you visit any intresting places? I have a 1000 yo castle 5 mins away got mighty 8th 10mins
FBKatB3tadotcom1
So much history is so small an area. Recent ground worm found new Roman building remains 5 mins from me
Kitehammer
The people showing up armed to protest masks or storm the capitol are the ones who don't end up tear gassed and pepper balled though.
AnthonyDavis1996
They aren't the ones burning cities down
GenshiV
I'm in Portland, a supposed bombed out shell of a city per Fox, and no one is burning the fucking city down. You're just wrong.
GenshiV
There might be a raging clue about who's side law enforcement is on that they enforce laws so selectively...
Easykehl
You just made an excellent argument for how the 1st amendment is nullified by the 2nd amendment.
Rignak
GenshiV
Be a lot cooler if I hadn't...
grandestoptimist
That's what I love about these constitutions, man. I get older, they stay the same age.
Keramane
The 2nd amendment is a right to bear arms with the intention of a prepared militia. It does not give one the right to oppress the >
chickendinosaur
Yeah I always thought the 2nd amendment allows us to keep and bear arms as a means to keep the federal government honest.
chickendinosaur
And obviously that idea has not worked very well.
Keramane
That's the understanding I had as well, alongside having a defense against foreign invasion.
Keramane
rights and liberties of your fellow citizen. It's the same fallacy as using the bible to decry homosexuality; it's just not there.
Keramane
Just a PSA, but I've been proven wrong on both counts, so yeah. I recommend reading the reply chains to see where I was corrected.
Easykehl
That doesn’t match the SCOTUS interpretation, which is the only enforceable interpretation.
Badprenup
And that would be great if that is how it was interpreted. But judging by the fact that more or less anyone who isn't a felon or under a 1/?
GenshiV
I was with you right up until the bible & homosexuality. There are some choice passages about it; they aren't great.
garrettxowens
What of the guy that got shot in the arm, he had a pistol, so is he victim or terrorist? Does a skateboard to the head qualify as weapon?
DangerTrain
He had a pistol after this kid had already SHOT SOMEBODY. And he was at least old enough to carry, and in his own state. False equivalence.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
If you're running from people who just witnessed you commit a murder & are trying to hold you until police arrives / stop you from killing …
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
anyone else, that's not self-defense. Meaning those people were most definitely victims. There is a reason the mass shooter is charged ...
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
with multiple counts of intentional homicide based on all available evidence.
DrGonzo1805
Any of the down voters please feel free to voice your opinions.
artisviolent
A skateboard vs a long rifle. You really need an explanation for that?
artisviolent
He was chasing the kid who had just shot someone in the head plus I think an additional 5 times. He lost his arm for trying to get him.
Wyndynwyre
According to this post its about intent. Did he show up armed looking for trouble, or was he carrying for defense? Lines are hard to define
AreWeGladiatorsOrAreWeBitches
Defense? Him carrying was ILLEGAL! He was mot old enough to have that firearm. Doesn’t matter his argument. He should have stayed home!
jayman0123
Break it down time. Most states have laws saying you can't drive alone state to state @ 17. He's not old enough to carry a weapon. He 1/
jayman0123
went to a conflicted area and open carried the weapon until he found someone he wanted to shoot It was completely intentional and illegal 2)
TerryCrews
I believe that nobody involved in that tragic situation was in the right. They're all victims of how society has gone.
justmemyselfi
Grudgingly concur
SunBrolem
So its nobody's fault. People are dead and it just be how it do lol, right?
TerryCrews
It's people getting violent in mostly peaceful protests, so they feel the need to arm themselves. The shooter was a kid, who was encouraged
TerryCrews
To hate, not resolve. The people shot were out of control. The kid was looking for a fight. All in all, nobody was making good choices.
TerryCrews
If our system encouraged conversation and change instead of finding enemies everywhere, it never would have happened.
WeAreJustDustInTheWind
best answer tbh
evillekoa10
Self defense does give you the right to use reasonable force to protect the life of others. He never fired on him he one showed him he was 1
UnitedGalactic
Kyle attacked first.
n0n53n53
running around the streets with a gun, then shooting people trying to stop you from shooting <> self defense.
evillekoa10
Armed and told him to give him the weapon.
Junktrunkjunkie
I need to watch the video's I did hear that the person he initially killed fired into the air behind him. Which would frighten anyone. →
Junktrunkjunkie
→ A scared kid with a gun is a recipe for disaster. But firing in the air in a populated area is also bad. I'll with hold judgement until→
Junktrunkjunkie
→ I have time to view all the footage myself.
n0n53n53
was the skateboard guy acting in self defense? They were all fighting, nobody can claim SD after the fact
garrettxowens
If it was self defense, I guess don't show up to a gunfight with a skateboard. And do we KNOW shooter wasn't attacked first?
Mirawatts
The skateboard guy chased him and begun hitting him. That's literally the opposite thing to do in self-defense.
MakeItBackAlright
Sure, attempting to melee someone with a rifle is totally a thing someone would choose to do as an aggressor.
n0n53n53
If you think he's an active shooter running around shooting people it's not. He had already shot one guy and they were chasing him. Both +
Mirawatts
Chasing someone is the opposite of self defense. Self defense is to flee not subdue.
n0n53n53
not sure if you're being serious or not, but defending others is also allowed as self defense:
n0n53n53
parties felt like they were defending
SlackerTactical
Skateboard guys' state of mind will be difficult to prove, as he is no longer with us to justify his actions.