amipretty
158323
3069
139
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E-0iDAQtWqA
May 2, 2023 8:34 PM
amipretty
158323
3069
139
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E-0iDAQtWqA
Rommon64
If Jesus died for my sins, it would be a waste of a good human sacrifice NOT to sin. After all, wouldn't want him to have died for nothing, right?
ItsActuallyDavidNow
Religious or not, Jesus set some prime examples of what makes a good person. So, yeah. I try to do that. Not because there’s a prize, it’s just the right thing to do.
briham86
Meon3
Tracie Harris = awesome sauce
Whowhywhatwhere
In my experience death was like going to sleep and not dreaming. When I came out of a coma doctors had to tell me I was legally dead for 9 seconds. Then 9 day coma
MrsSlavicHorse
Love Tracy
ALG0RIDDUM
I doubt she can even fucking read let alone understand the origin of the ScRiPtUrEs
PeltaLunata
Pretty sure I’m infatuated with Tracy Harris
JohnWickdidnothingwrong
No "think" needed.
ilyasInternetSmuggler
When you learn about science and hear conflicting views on religion, you know & come to the realisation that the only way to keep people in the control group is by fear mongering, hate & burning books.
BumroyV2
I'm not sure why more Atheist Experience is cropping up on Imgur, but I'm glad it is. The ACA was a huge refuge when I was in my teens and my mom and I were butting heads over religion. Nice to see they're still going strong.
meetthacreepa
Religion is for the weak.
jimmythehat1
So what the caller is saying is you can be a rapist and murder and have raped continually for years one person, die, but because you accepted god as your lord and savior, you get to go to heaven. What's his version of heaven anyways? raping that same person? that person could've been the most pious person in history, but they have to share a heaven with their rapist?
Djones06236
Yep. John 3:16 describes how salvation works. You're not required to actually be a good person to get into Heaven.
casbott
Not if they didn't believe in God. Then that rape victim is going to hell...
CannotBeBanned
All religions are cults.
C110PR
Christianity is fucked up.
notmyrealface
tjm1226
If I’m being honest… I want there to be some type of heaven after “this” where it made all the bullshit we live through make sense. But I don’t want it to be this morally bankrupt version that these fanatics want it to be.
landbaronness42
“Spending eternity with evangelical Christians is not the selling point they seem to think it is” (someone on the Internet)
whiterabbit99
For any imgurian who is unaware this is Tracie on The Atheist Experience, a call in show that has been around for 20 plus years. Still going strong on YouTube. Check it out like n subscribe to support rationality and secular morality.
LFranko
Wouldn't the all knowing god already know where you're going before you're even born? What's the fucking point then?
talldrink413
If there is a God, and he is good, he/she will not care if I was a believer as long as I was good. If he/she is bad, I wish not to know that God. If there is no God, it matters not.
Misteree8
GO Tracy!
revenantape
Been a while since I've seen her. Just recently stopped watching Atheist Experience after Dillahunty split
DefaOmega
Pretty wild seeing clips from old Atheist Experience videos on Imgur. Fantastic show you can see on YouTube, though Matt Dillahunty's approach can be a bit much for some people...not me, but some people.
TheSecondPiewackit
Most of their good shit happened the better part of a decade ago.
DefaOmega
True, though considering there aren't really a lot of new arguments for religion is means they're rehashing a lot of the same stuff. There's a newer guy Forrest Valkai that's an actual scientist (of sorts I believe) and he is fantastic. Old or new it's worth checking out
Buttrre
American Evangelicals in about the 30s decided that you ONLY needed to profess belief in Jesus, and dropped the "acts of service" that Jesus himself said you needed. Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who *does the will of my Father* who is in heaven. " That lady on the phone is a kook.
brianingram
Jesus "dying" for my sins is like me hitting my leg with a shovel for your credit card debt.
BrdCdn
Yeah. Also his biggest miracles also conveniently happen off screen. He didn't come back to life in front of everyone. He just went missing from his tomb and talked to a few hard-core followers. Or so the fairy tale says.
ThatSonOfaBitch
Divine command theory isn't morality, it's obedience. If, in one's mind, all it takes to be moral are orders from your favorite authority figure then you might as well accept that you're in a cult. Actual morality stems from empathy, interaction and consequence in the effort of maximizing well-being, particularly the well-being of others. If divine commands fail to improve well-being, they aren't moral, they are at best amoral and are far too often immoral.
gelos
If my favourite authority figure is .. you, does that mean we are in a cult and you lead it?
LocalUnassumingGuy
PaintedPotato
Incredibly well-said, major kudos
ytseone
I'm sure proponents of DCT believe it does maximize wellbeing. The question is who gets to say. Experts and technocrats? Popular opinion? The scriptures (of various sorts)?
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
Bingo. If this entire supernatural system really existed, the only moral thing to do would be to join the resistance. What a sickening fantasy to sit on a cloud and praise a fascist dictator while a major portion of humanity spends eternity in a torture camp. And not just the rapists and murderers (even for them it would be an unacceptably cruel punishment) but lots of decent people whose only crime was not to be a spineless bootlicker.
RoninOni
Monotheistic beliefs are quite literally the worst. The belief that good people who’s only “crime” is being nonbelievers being eternally tormented… And being OK with that… Is beyond disturbing and dehumanizing.
QuestionTwice
My parents literally believe that without the Bible there is no basis for morality. It's annoying as hell I tried to get them to see a world without the Bible and they literally cannot envision it. They be like: everyone was raping and murdering before the Bible, before the Bible there was no basis or absolute standard for morality. They're pretty Brain dead it's impossible to argue with them. I've given up, I just verbally agree with them so I won't be kicked out of my house.
CatsOrExcited
I hope you can get on your own someday and feel secure enough to break ties.
jt42
I don't think the Bible even claims "the Bible", more that God gave us a conscience. Romans 2:12-16
Akurei00
I hid my atheism from my parents for years, but I had been out of their home before the conversion. My parents, especially my mom, feels the same as yours about morality. I like to complain about Christian hypocrisy to her and how it's no small part of the reason I committed to atheism. But that makes our relationship seem more toxic than it is. We actually get along really well. While I'm never going to convince them to be atheist or that it's okay that I am (for my soul), they understand why.
RoninOni
I was pretty open about at least disbelief in Christianity. I still held to a belief in something, but I’m pretty nihilistic now. However that only has given me more empathy, as if this life is all we get, that makes it more precious, and tragedies of poverty and war that much worse.
Akurei00
Exactly. Well said. I don't believe in an afterlife so I want everyone to live their best life right now. I also don't believe in devine punishment so we need to hold people accountable for their actions.
PrinceOfWhales
An all-powerful, all-loving deity could have easily "forgiven" us with no sacrifice, no guilt, no admonishments beyond "pay it forward". Christianity is morally bankrupt from the root, but pretends to be the source of all morality. What a crock.
CandidGamera
An all-powerful, all-loving deity could have created a world without the need for forgiveness or paying if forward - no evil, no scarcity. (And you "but that was Satan!" folks... who created Satan and his capacity to bring evil to the world?)
jt42
So that you could choose "not God".
JohnnyLawlessEsq
It makes more sense if you understand the historical context for it.
PrinceOfWhales
Every religion makes that very same claim. It's a way of hand-waving away the obvious fact that every religion is a man-made construct, and as such, it's no better than the people who created it.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
I didn't say it was an intellectual edifice of limpid clarity and implacable persuasive force. I just said it makes more sense when you know a bit more about it, just like literally everything else.
RoninOni
Once you realize it was written by men of power or influence at the very least it all makes a lot of sense.
ProphetOfPhil
Didn't Jesus sacrifice himself for all our sins past, present and future? If our sins are forgiven why would we have to deal with hell at all?
lighterletter
Because hell is a state of mind, and it's arguable that we might not know how to forgive ourselves without the example of someone said capable of forgiving it all and taking the blame for it. The key was meant to be empathy, it was corrupted by fear. Clips like this show ignorant Christians that want to do right but do it wrong. Like children spilling milk.
BrdCdn
Sacrificed his weekend. He didn't stay dead.
ytseone
lol, if Christianity pretends to be the source of all morality then why does the early church talk about the virtue of pagans? Justin Martyr lists Socrates and Heraclitus among them.
nangke
I don't think there's a lot of conviction in the notion of a Virtuous Pagan. Same way some preachers might say that dogs and other beloved pets will definitely go to heaven, but other preachers go hard on the idea that only humans have souls and that's why jealous Lucifer fell from grace yada yada
ytseone
Ah, the reverse "no true Scotsman." The REAL Christians are all shit heads.
AxelBeingCivil
An all-powerful, all-loving deity could've made us such that we would never feel the need or desire to sin in the first place.
StandBackSomeonesOffened
What gets me is bro knows everything that’s ever going to happen soooo bro made the sinner knowing they were doomed to hell to begin with. The egocentric fk even made a little him so he could die for the sins he knew was going to happen? Like that’s some serious self service right there.
PrinceOfWhales
"bUt muH frEE wiLL"
AxelBeingCivil
There are no words for how much damage the idea of free will has done to the collective psyche of humanity, and how much authoritarian oppression it's justified.
damnshame24
if God is omnipotent, he already knows what you would do if given free will to choose good/evil in any situation so the idea you choose to be bad or good via the test of "free will" is flawed.
PrinceOfWhales
Not to mention that this same omnipotent deity who created a forbidden fruit in a garden with humans where he absolutely knew the outcome is demonstrably evil. Evil is a direct result of god pranking his own creation and blaming them for what he did to them.
LupusLilium
Makes a plan that cannot be changed or altered, tells people trying to change the plan is a sin but refuses to tell people what that plan is but they'll be punished for going against it, then gives them absolute free will?
PrinceOfWhales
...that plan can be 'overriden' by just asking fervently for intervention. Which pretty much obliviates the claim of omniscience or makes the claims about answered prayers utter bullshit.
heethin
Religion is disinformation.
idiotsonfire
Religion is indoctrination, not disinformation, its misinformation, its malicious because it disguises itself as "helping" someone.
duffman3335
Religion is SHOW BUSINESS
SebastianCrab
It is a meme. It is one of one of the examples that Richard Dawkins used when he coined the word.
TheAnswerWasAlwaysMoreLube
Pushing imagined respawn systems.
kepattRunner
Religion is a business
notyoubizness
It is a con so good that half the people running the con don't know.
demosteness
Religión is faith, not logic nor facts.
ImAGrower
Organized religion was legit one of the first attempts at mass control of populations. Spiritual religions were the earliest ways of explaining things we couldn't understand with early brains. That glowly ball in the sky. Storms and anything that made early humans scared or confused.
Dondarian
Disinformation at its very best
HoneyBadgersAreBadAsses
the very first documented fake news ever.
merrilup
Another of Disappointed People
BrdCdn
More than that. It's societal cancer.
AeonQuasars
It's a kindergarten for people without rational thoughts. If only they could stay out of politics that would be great.
Ishman2000
Lack of critical thinking
TA2019
No. Religion is a coping mechanism. That's it.
HoneyBadgersAreBadAsses
this is how you sell it
CitizenPrime
It was (stil is) a great way to control uneducated masses of people.
Easykehl
It’s more of a metaphysical conspiracy theory, or a rationalization of meaning as a defense against existential dread. It’s an emotional and cognitive crutch that has been cooped as an identity. It’s a set of rules iteratively designed to self propagate memeticly through human thought and society; a set of words, ideas and stories evolved over millennia to specifically worm their way into human consciousness and never let go, adapting to and eliminating threats to its existence and expansion.
rbudrick
Those too, but not just those.
LadyYorkshire
Sounds like the Borg.
CitizenPrime
It was (stil is) a great way to control uneducated masses of people.
xmaneds
Religion is the organized dogmatic corruption of spirituality.
[deleted]
[deleted]
ChaoticGoodTransGirl
how is it a part of the problem? i feel like there's this idea held by a lot of antitheists that to believe something that isn't perfectly objectively true is a moral falling, except we can't really have perfect objective knowledge of the world and have to navigate it somehow. lots of people believe lots of wrong things, and more believe things that can't be falsified at all. the harmful part of religion is the hierarchy it enforces, not that people might be wrong.
ChaoticGoodTransGirl
the other main issue is also not a result of what is believed, but how beliefs are approached. hierarchical religious organizations need people to submit, and so they have to enforce this idea that not believing what they believe is morally wrong. they must force their beliefs on others, not because they have religious beliefs, but because the power of the hierarchy they serve depends on it, and their worth depends on that hierarchy.
HEARTSOFSPACE
Yes! Thank you! People throw that empty word around way too much.
StandBackSomeonesOffened
I disagree. Atleast in my experience spiritual is a direct connection to existence and the universe where you attempt to connect the conscious mind to seemingly disconnect reality. It has no god to worship and no demands that religion has. It’s just the nature of trying to connect and understand what is. Anything can be corrupted Infact try to name one thing that hasn’t or can’t be. Though I would argue spiritually is an umbrella term and also difficult to corrupt because it’s a personal connect
[deleted]
[deleted]
lighterletter
Empathy for others and their experience?
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
umm yeah I think all that you can just call "learning".
HEARTSOFSPACE
Everything that exists in nature, including our brains, are a part of reality. You don't disconnect from reality unless you're dead. Spirituality is just a word to describe a whole lot of nonsense, which is probably why it holds a different meaning for everyone. A lot of baggage...
StandBackSomeonesOffened
What?… so many alive are disconnected with reality there’s literally mental illnesses that that’s the core inability and those people are very much alive. It might mean different things to different people but how does that discredit it when the universal point to it is literally connect with your personal journey and discover who you are/why you are here and to find comfort in the next thing after death. I suppose religion does some of that but realistically it’s a bunch of stories
EnjoyWhatYouWant
I would be curious if your a person who enjoys nature at all, im not religious but for me it can still feel a bit spiritual when interacting with nature, or even during meditation when pondering reality , existence, and philosophy. I think its a bit harsh to dismiss spirituality as mere baggage, but you are correct that it is different for everyone. I wouldn't want to be lumped in with a antivax, healing crystal, essential oils kinda spiritual person for instance.
Dhalmelpunch
Constitutionally protected disinformation.
Fifofu
Ironic that Brazilian gov and media have been campaigning against fake news, yet they see no problem with religion, They can fit in the same breath lack of evidence of corruption due to technicality and say God will prove them right in the end,
xmaneds
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
catreplicators
I mean, at least it's not SUPPRESSING religion, or we could end up in a TH**CR*C*! (Yes, it's horrible enough I felt I needed to censor it.)
ArgumentativeArguerJustBecause
Dw for everyone else out there who is confused ill spell it out for you THORCROCS
catreplicators
S is not a vowel, R is not a vowel, it was theocracy
Fastrayd
MarkySpaceMagnet
Religion was created to control the population.
MarkySpaceMagnet
I did say religion. What is faith,
MarkySpaceMagnet
Is faith the words and concepts given to you by religions?
NarratesTheDarkerStory
this. organized religion has always been about control.
ChaoticGoodTransGirl
are we talking about organized, hierarchical religion, or spiritual faith in general? because anything hierarchical has the aim of those at the top controlling those below, but spiritual faith is one of humanity's oldest abstract creations and is how we learned to navigate the world, possibly even before we became our specific kind of hominid.
AgnosticPaladin
"how we learned to navigate the world" badly. Religion/spirituality are answers you get when you're too lazy to follow reason and logic. "God/ whatever did it" is much easier than study the natural processes, formulate a theory and test it; and it's also wrong.
ChaoticGoodTransGirl
you seem to assume that the scientific method is mutually exclusive with religion. there are religious scientists. hell, many of the first people involved in the development of what became science did so because of their religions. not all religion or spiritual beliefs are practiced in the assumption they have objective knowledge of the truth.
AgnosticPaladin
"you seem to assume that the scientific method is mutually exclusive with religion". Yup. Invented invisible sky daddies and ghosts and any other bullsh*t are incompatible with the scientific method.
charliethewizard
I still don't understand how/why the fate of my immortal soul for all of eternity will be judged by ~50-80 years spent in the starter zone of the universe.
SarcasticComment
because either God is a monster. or this is all social control promising rewards next time around
Frederf
Now I want to take a Religion As Through a MMORPG Lens class at UC Berkley.
HEARTSOFSPACE
Shhhh! You're not even supposed to think about that kind of stuff, let alone actually ask questions.
counterintel
This just in - Religion fails the logic test once again
DemSumBigAssRidges
"You could be dead for 100,000 years, and you haven't even started being dead." - American Gods (TV)
GoblinTit
or determined by a bunch of people who have no idea about your personal journey.
Fluffy314
0-80+ years. Though the implications of that correction only further encourages cynicism.
Ruderali
Could be like matchmaking rounds. Throw you in with everyone to estimate your elo to figure out where you'll have the most fun.
dbox
Don't worry, you won't be judged for the rest of eternity.
giddyupmusic
Starter zone. I love it.
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
Brave of you to think this is the start...
TsubakiTragic
It doesn't... you won't... forget about religion and just try your hardest to be a good person. You won't always succeed but you'll be in a far better position that god bothers who blindly follow a 'scripture'.
nosaucesbutapplesauces
What? No it’s judged by a book Constantine put together ~300 years after a man named Jesus died.
nosaucesbutapplesauces
Allegedly*
AxelBeingCivil
There's not really much in the Bible that says it would be. The idea of eternal judgment is much more of a later concept.
HEARTSOFSPACE
I think it had something to do with trying to prevent people from committing suicide, because people were just speed running life so they could go straight to heaven, which is logical. Suicide = eternal torment kind of took care of the issue, mostly.
AxelBeingCivil
That was indeed a problem, yeah. But the idea of Hell and the Devil took quite some time to solidify, so I'm not sure I agree with that model.
HEARTSOFSPACE
Yeah, I can't remember where I read it. It was some kind of sect or something in the early days of Christianity. I'm not sure of all the details, so I'm likely mistaken.
UWAGAGABLAGABLAGABA
Pretty much the evangelicals would turn any "heathen" God into Satan and use that as a basis for converting people. The current visage of Satan came about from the pagans and their rendition of Pan. Kind of how they took yule and eostre and only changed very minute details in order to bring in the pagans. The fundamental details are relatively unchanged for the holidays.
JayEnfield
"Give us money now."
CandidGamera
Good news, that's why there's purgatory, to balance that out a little. Oh incidentally, don't forget to check out our indulgence fast-track booster plan for a price that's right for you.
nosaucesbutapplesauces
Ah. True religious capitalism ;)
whyforetho
This is what broke my belief. I couldn't reconcile the idea that infinite suffering and torment could ever be a fitting punishment for a finite amount of sin.
thadken
IIRC, there's not really anything in the bible about there being torture or pain. The suffering endured is just a separation from God.
BrockEffingSamson
Look on the bright side: Sometimes God gives children cancer and they get judged on much less time.
QuestionTwice
Also that whole you go to heaven as long as you believe bullshit. You're telling me Hitler could be in heaven so long as he prayed to God 5 minutes before he blew his brains out in the bunker? And Einstein is in hell alongside Tesla.
Marikhen
That's not the greatest example as depending on which flavor of God he prays to suicide is a "mortal" sin and will guarantee being hellbound
HEARTSOFSPACE
Yes. It's rather clear that Christianity is morally and ethically superior to other religions and worldviews, and especially superior to secular morality. You...you want me to explain that? Pshhh...naw, just believe it, man.
zetzmemp
https://youtu.be/H_JoE2GioXY
amipretty
zetzmemp
That’s witchcraft
xmaneds
or a god whose every miracle -- literally all of them -- took place in 200 square miles in the desert on one planet in the span of 40 years
AdrianDunne
I think you'll find people have been making shit up and attributing it to God ever since.
Windborne
And to multiple gods ever before.
AdrianDunne
There's only one true God and we should all pray to be touched by his noodly appendage.
Windborne
I like noodles.
kinarism
Anyone who has studied even a tiny bit of religion knows this isn't "true". The Catholic church has recognized miracles that happened in recent times. One of the most recent was in 2018. With that said, anyone not drinking the Kool aid will recognize that it's most likely not the work of a deity.
ThrowAwayAcct0000
Apparently, there's some place in Bosnia where the virgin Mary has appeared to the same 6 kids for years and years. I know a priest who has gone there (from the US). I can't imagine being willing to visit a location because some people there are hallucinating.
starrs3
Dude i like a good haunted house as much as the next person.
spittytrinkles
The rift between the American Evangelical and the Roman Catholic is immense. Can you imagine a Pastor and a Priest standing at the Pearly Gates. Only one can enter. Saint Peter is frantically going through his book, "Which one raped the least children?"
LuLuPennyAndOdium44
I think they're referring to the bible - being canon - and what the white guys in rome added is more like fanfiction. But yeah agreed it's all complete nonsense.
SarcasticComment
a woman made more rice than expected after praying is one, and the problem with that source is the people controlling the narrative.
Cats2cats
And not a white person to be found among them!
comixrcoolerthanu
Uhh.. The Roman Empire stretched all the way across the Mediterranean, North Africa, Europe & the Middle East. There where white people.
BrdCdn
Yep, clearly God hates Asians, Europeans, Indigenous and Africans.
EveryGOPAccusationIsActuallyAnAdmission
"The Pope may be French, but Jesus is English" -Knights Tale. So good!
SophieClockwise
Oh, no, Jesus was definitely white. That was one of the miracles, you see. :P
Hashbrown123
Well, those were the first true civilizations. Everything else was just nomadic tribes for the most part.
OnyxTurret
So, nomadic tribes are not really civilizations is what you're saying.
Terpomo11
What about, you know, China? Or the Indus Valley civilization?
Hashbrown123
Indus was a few thousand years after ancient Egypt.
LocalUnassumingGuy
Thorinori
Maybe try learning history from history books rather than story books
theskepticinme
Infinite punishment for a finite crime
shano510
For a *made up* crime
Seminole4ever
For a crime that He engineered. If He knows everything, then He knew leaving Adam & Eve, who were the equivalent of babies, alone with the tempter would result in their failure and He didn’t do anything other than say “Don’t eat the fruit of this particular tree.” Pretty fucking stupid plan if you ask me.
PaintedPotato
*snaps*
Marikhen
Not quite. There are some passages that at least imply that when Jesus comes again the people in Hell will have a shot at redemption. ->
Marikhen
2) After that it's eternal torture.
Marikhen
1) That's actually probably worse than infinite punishment as it implies that until the second coming everyone is tortured into being good.
Tsig
Oh no, that's not quite right. Because you can already be a good person and get sent to "Hell" for not believing in the right god. Out of all the religions in the world, it's entirely possible that NONE of them are right and that we're ALL going to "Hell".
Marikhen
Yes, but my point was that once you're in Hell you'll be tortured into believing in the "right" god, or you'll stay there after the second coming. /shrugs
WarlockSniper
There is a documentary about this called "The Good Place".
theduckening
Pretty sure the lady on the phone is absolutely wrong. If belief was the only criteria, even the devil would be in heaven.
GeneralAnubis
Yeah the scriptures say specifically the opposite of what she is saying. Matthew 25:31-46 - Paraphrased: "people who are religious believers but assholes to others are cast out, people who are good and loving to others are welcomed in and serving God, even (especially) when they didn't know it."
TheSecondPiewackit
Pretty sure she's allowing someone to argue for that stipulative definition that /they/ agree with.
jt42
Correct: "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19
711isAnInsideJob
El Diablo is an angel though, so different set of rules, I believe. Not in the mythology, just in my recollection.
JohnSmithterms
LoL ... look at you. Attempting to use reason to describe religion. Good luck with that. In the bible alone there is 20000+ contradictions.
Akurei00
Absolutely. Difficult to properly define "good" with such contradictions and part of why it can be used to horribly justify so much. I would, however, argue that every 10 generations or so, a new "prophet" comes about and mixes things up. So really, it evolved. Things from the latter books should supersede those from the earlier. I'm an ex-Christian, not an advocate.
Fritzy19
Mother Teresa would convert people, then stop treating them and move on to the next. Because yes, according to Christians that is all it takes
TheKraken666
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
Depends on denomination, they all have different ideas about how to get in and yes for some it's purely just belief.
XennialDad
James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
januarylover
THIS. This is why I think Jesus would be especially horrified by the 'thoughts & prayers' nonsense that comes from so many self-identified Christians.
XennialDad
And 18-19 - But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
XennialDad
Belief alone is no different from the demons, who will not go to heaven. Faith is required, which includes deeds. I can't say I love my wife, and also beat her up, or never tell her I love her, or never do house work, or never play with our kids, or cheat on her. A Christian's faith should produce fruit, visible to anyone that looks, otherwise there's a good chance their faith is dead and they're no different from a demon.
TheOneAndOnlyButtStabber
lol its all make believe. Everyone is correct in a cartoon
newsguycraigevans
It's comic books. All religions are true.
Marikhen
Devil's advocate in me wants to ask which devil as there is a minor difference between any devil and The Devil, a.k.a. Lucifer. Also, I ->
Marikhen
1) would like to point out that there are two flavors of "believe in" (minimum) usable here, and depending on which one God used the angels,
Marikhen
5) then they can get in, or rather back in as only the fallen angels would (probably) be outside God's grace. In theory. He's tempermental.
Marikhen
3) but he didn't believe in God because God's plan was flawed to/for him. Basically angels can't believe in God's existence because they
Marikhen
2) fallen or otherwise, would be ineligible for re-admittance into Heaven. Lucifer, for example, didn't believe in God, he knew God existed,
Marikhen
4) have knowledge of it therefore they can't get in based on that "believe in," but if it's a matter of believing in God's plan/actions/word
lonelyrangerofthedreams
Well, be good or not, if you don’t believe in he/she/it you don’t go to heaven. It’s not the only criteria, but without it any other is invalid.
hellothisispeggy
Wasn't he? I seem to remember he started there but got thrown out.
SarcasticComment
you have to believe in the person you are rebelling against for that to work
PlanckEraWasMyBestEra
He was, he is the fallen angel, but according to their rules, you can get in trouble with God and all you have to do is believe in him to earn your place in heaven. So by their logic it seems like he could just go back and be welcomed
westellar
Possibly could. He's going through a rebellious phase and won't go home, or something. I'm sure dad is very concerned.
Chickenmakesmetired
Apparently he was too woke
ReJokeStatistics
Then he moved to LA for a vacation.
necrojoe
Well, he moved there, but vacationed in Georgia.
worldwarzero
Georgia was a business trip I believe
casbott
Heaven is full of paedophile priests and pastors ...
januarylover
Safer in Hell.
jt42
Moses murdered, King David worse, and yes, will likely be in heaven like the thief on the cross. The idea is that people cannot save themselves, only God.
thekeyofe
It's an Evangelical/Born-Again thing, where once you "accept" Jesus in your heart then you are automatically absolved of all other responsibilities. Most "christian" (so-called) sects expect you to at least try to be a good person.
cabalin
Evangelicals believe they have a “Get Out of Hell Free” card and it matters not how they behave
MosquitoHawker
There’s that whole “now go forth and sin no more” that conveniently gets glossed over. It’s a two- part deal. Accept, then change. It’s not blanket absolution.
mightyavenger77
It’s a Martin Luther belief “salvation through faith alone”.
CreepyPhlox
It’s technically deeper than that. It’s not just an acceptance but you have to purge your mind when you accept. You can’t just say “I believe in god”. That’s why there’s purgatory or the pearly gates where your core beliefs are judged. I’m an atheist but raised by a southern baptist and a Christian scientist in the same city as Libery Univ. I know all the fucked up hypocrisies of religion.
CreepyPhlox
Correction: Christianity* I do not know nearly as much about other religions.
MotionOfTheOcean
It is common in all protestant sects. However, that was actually better than ctaholic obsession with alms and donations that was exploiting the poor. (In the context of the church history.) It has just got wild and fucked up and twisted. Not that I am religious, but I can see there was actual attempt for shift for more loving ethos by Martin Luther.
AxelBeingCivil
"Believe in" is often used to mean in the sense of trusting in, having faith in, worshiping, etc., not simply "thinking they exist".
jt42
Specifically that Christ died for you sins.
chapterhawk101
But the fact that there are so many horrible Christians in the world who treat others like shit and still think they're going to heaven because they "believe" is proof that your statement is not agreed upon in the Christian world.
AxelBeingCivil
No, sadly, it's very widely agreed upon. A core and essential part of Christianity is that faith alone is the prerequisite for salvation. In theory, this means that there's no hierarchies of holiness; everyone is equal, since everyone's a sinner. In practice, it's used to justify not actually having to work on self-improvement by a lot of pseudo-pious louts.
Buttrre
Someone else posted James 2:14-17 below as well, might want to look at those passages and try again.
Bawdiepie
No it isn't. Faith and *repentance* are a prerequisite for salvation. In this context these terms mean: faith- attempting to be a good person and follow the example and teachings of Christ; repentance: turning away from sin and seeking forgiveness for past and present sins. These are defined as "belief" because they *cannot* be lip service, it *must* be believed. The only path to redemption is a recognition of our own evils and trying to do better, because forgiveness is a gift, it is not earned
AxelBeingCivil
This is where theological hair-splitting comes into it: Seeking repentance is how you show you *have* faith, but it is not faith itself. If repentance were necessary for salvation, it'd mean you could "work off" sins, and that just isn't the case. All sins are already forgiven, all sinners redeemed. Ergo, while repentance is seen as important and healing, it's not salvific.
Buttrre
Wrong. Matthew 7:15-23. American Evangelicals dropped the "acts of service" part of being saved in about the 30s.
AxelBeingCivil
What the Bible says and what people actually agree upon and believe are not the same thing. I would've thought that'd be self-evident but apparently not. A lived religion is not always perfectly in alignment with what is outlined in its holy text. A core and essential element of the religion is that faith alone is necessary for salvation, with good works then being *proof* of faith but not salvific in and of themselves. That debate arises from that passage in Matthew interacting with ones (1)