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Eric Lundgren is a big name in e-waste/recycling, and decided to try to save working laptops rather than grinding them down for their metals. He did this with freeware system restore software, and the Windows license keys that are found on printed on the laptop (because using system restore software on your own PC is perfectly legal). He sold these laptops for 25 cents (approximately the cost of the cd-r required for the system restore software). Microsoft decided that the 28,000 laptops he restored are worth $420,000 and he's facing 15 months in prison.
Microsoft decided to omit the difference between restoring a system with the windows license key, and purchasing a brand new license.
Louis Rossman's video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaoJErxYLtM
Eric Lundgren's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee3i7VEPSsQ
wearAmaskEvrywhere
He deserves it
mauccafinlux
People seem to misunderstand the concept of licensing.
Numero34
That's fucked
Terminology
Fuck off, you misleading twat. Accusing Microsoft of omitting facts when you're pandering fake news yourself? Absolutely pathetic.
gunnexx
Problem 1: charging money for copyrighted material, even if its 25 cents. Problem 2: He sold them with MS logo's on it.
hax4dayz
Store.rossmangroup.com
majidaniel
He plead guilty to posing these discs as authorized Dell CD's. They spent $80k and were selling them, this wasn't a charity operation
Grrrg
lol McGloin
Varenvel
i wish you could flag things for spreading misinformation and make staff delete it.
zarathon
He was selling bootleg CDs you could get from Dell for free.
SNEAKYMONK3Y
That guys YouTube channel is awesomely technical. Rips apart common failings with all sorts of laptops and explains bad designs etc
ShapesIndustries
420,000, nice.
itsme247365
Totally legal in Europe, every Sold license can be unbundled and resold, as long as you have the license key
Lagunitas707
Cool. This isn't about that.
vulturedoors
"Free for personal use" software being sold in a business context. Violates the terms of the software. Definitely illegal.
igniteflo
https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-facts-about-a-recent-counterfeiting-case-brought-by-the-u-s-government/
ICanHasJava
I still don't understand this. Except for mimicking Dell's design, what did he do wrong? Microsoft provides this shit for free.
EarlGreyOrDeath
When you download the restore image you agree to only use it for personal use. Making copies and selling them is not personal use.
IDontWatchDrWho
Read the article linked before you upvote. Guy made over 90k selling these fake discs. Not altruistic.
jayar1st
This post is vague and does not adequately explain the accusations.
PassiveAggressiveHotdogVendor
@OP is misrepresenting the situation.
PassiveAggressiveHotdogVendor
https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-facts-about-a-recent-counterfeiting-case-brought-by-the-u-s-government/
rattyJ2
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/27/microsoft-attempts-to-spin-its-role-in-counterfeiting-case/
EarlGreyOrDeath
He didn't restore 28k laptops, he made 28k copies of a Dell system restore disk and was selling them. That's definitely illegal.
TimeRyderAndTheChronoTeens
PLEASE TELL ME HE'S GOING TO COUNTERSUE
JustMe60
screw micro$oft
newsguycraigevans
In America corporations are people. And they are more equal than other people.
Mindshard
Your entire post is wrong and BS. Look up the actual case. He had entire factories making counterfeit disks in the tens of thousands.
omh2
Yes, the issue is he was convicted for counterfeiting Windows licenses, which he did not do, not the disks that he actually did have made
Mindshard
He was defrauding customers in huge numbers and got caught by US customs. Don't really care what they got him under, he deserved it.
omh2
You probably should care, he was convicted of a crime he did not commit, that is significantly worse than any crime he actually committed
omh2
As for defrauding customers, customers thought they were buying Dell recovery media, they were buying recovery media but not from Dell. So
omh2
he was committing fraud, but customers were getting what they paid for, just not from who they thought. Still illegal but hardly malicious
katalavenoligoellenika
"15 months in prison for *pirating software*" TIFTFY
katalavenoligoellenika
To be clear, OEM licenses do not have transfer rights.
AxelYamanaka
What do you mean?
katalavenoligoellenika
OEM licenses (Original Equipment Manufacturer) are licensed to the specific machine and end user who purchases them originally from the OEM
katalavenoligoellenika
and cannot be transferred to another machine or user. So if he was using a license key from an OEM to make "recovery disks" with (2)
katalavenoligoellenika
If he was refurbishing machines with their original OEM key and software for resale or redistribution, he was breaking the EULA. (4)
katalavenoligoellenika
License keys attached, he was breaking the EULA. If he was selling recovery disks with a non-OEM key included, he was breaking the EULA. (3)
katalavenoligoellenika
There really isn't a way that he wasn't breaking the license agreement. MS is a lot of things, but they're generally not petty.
omh2
Courts threw out MS' version of how OEM licenses work years ago, OEM licenses are belong to the hardware they were sold with. The disks he
HungarianOxPenisInABlender
Aren't you paying just the one time for the license. I don't see the argument Microsoft put up
GrampaJack
It's not MS argument - its US CUSTOMS who brought the case.
icookfoodandfightfire
there is no arguement from Microsoft, its the US customs office
Nubz9000
The argument is they provide it for free to personal users, but charge businesses 25$ to do it. This guy copied it the free program to 1/
LupusLilium
Charge businesses? For a system recovery disc? I once had a single USB drive dedicated to recovery and used it across three computers.
LupusLilium
Without any cost, because Windows provides that as a free service if you create it before your computer breaks down.
omh2
The don't charge businesses for recovery media thou, they only charge for new licenses, the court case conflates the 2 and disregarded
omh2
testimony that they are in fact different things. The disks are still unauthorized copies, but without financial harm there would be no jail
Nubz9000
a CD, had these CDs mass produced in China, then used them in his business to save money on refurbishing laptops. Keep in mind, this isn't2/
Nubz9000
some mom and pop shop that didn't know any better. This dude runs a major business and wanted to save thousands of dollars.
Nubz9000
So tl;dr, it's a mid level business stepping on Microsoft's dick abusing a free service.
AngstAussie
I like that you explained the other perspective
AxelYamanaka
What are you talking about? A license of Windows home edition is between $50 and $99. If he's using the same license key provided w/ the 1/
Mentok
It's crazy but not surprising people have no idea what's going on.
AxelYamanaka
2/ system, then he is in no wrong whatsoever. Face it, Microsoft is just being a bunch of greedy imbeciles.
Nubz9000
And they charge 25$ for enterprises to restore computers en masse. Listen, I think it's stupid too, but I can understand why Microsoft 1/
AxelYamanaka
But how would they enforce such a thing? It doesn't make any sense! Is it part of the license? It's an OS level feature! How do you restrict
Nubz9000
does it. A single user might balk at paying 25 bucks to restore a computer and it's generally not worth the effort on Microsoft's part. 2/
shinagami091
So whenever I do a system restore on my computer Im supposed to pay Microsoft $25? Is that the logic Im seeing here?
1972GTO
No. If your PC has a legit license for Win(whatever), you have the right to download a copy to save as a backup to repair your system. 1/
1972GTO
Lundgren was making "bootlegs", selling them to customers being refurbed laptops and profiting from it. Had he only given them away with 2/
1972GTO
the laptop MS wouldn't have involved US customs.
omh2
MS didn't involve customs, customs incorrectly identified the unauthorized recovery media as copies of Windows, and prosecuted as such
omh2
What he did was still illegal, but not the crime he was charged with, without conflating licenses/recovery media he would not be facing jail
vulturedoors
It's your laptop, and the software license is for you.
omh2
Courts threw that out, but MS still likes to claim that is how it works, OEM licenses belong to the hardware they were sold with.
lawideas
Usually when you see something like this, there's stuff you're not being told. So I dug deeper. (1)
lawideas
(3) He got ahold of a Dell system restore image, then contracted a Chinese factory create 30,000 counterfeit copies of it.
lawideas
(2) I didn't have to dig very deep. Lundgren is guilty as hell.
lawideas
(5) He's a pirate pretending to be an activist. Microsoft frequently pulls shady shit, but this isn't one of those times.
omh2
It kinda is. The disks are absolutely illegal, but the only reason he is facing jail time is because the court valued the disks at the cost
omh2
of a Windows license sold to a refurbisher but the disks he produced are in no way Windows licenses. The court disregarded testimony stating
omh2
as much. What he did was/is still illegal, but without conflating unauthorized copies of the media with licenses he would not be facing jail
lawideas
(4) AND he had them put Microsoft logos and other official looking stuff on them.
giftgeeks
Microsoft didn't bring this case forward, U.S. Customs did. There is plenty of evidence to support the case.
KingBeardy
Yes, appease your corporate overlords.
CommunistSweden
Yeah but the internet can't hate the truth. Let them have this one, they need it.
omh2
Eh, the case was still based on the false premise that the disks were Windows licenses, the court disregarded testimony that they were not
kitticuskattus
That was a good read. Why is it people always want to champion the ‘little guy’ when we know that almost everyone is a prick?
JPminer814
Cuz a single man may be a prick but corporation can be a huge asshole.
SwaghettiYologneseWithMemeballs
A single man may be a prick but a corporation is several magnum sized dongs penetrating every single orifice
kitticuskattus
All people are the same they look out for No. 1. It is very rarely in a company’s best interest to be evil. Don’t want to dent the profit
giftgeeks
Source: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-facts-about-a-recent-counterfeiting-case-brought-by-the-u-s-government/
yerd
Was he selling refurbished licensed pc's or not?
omh2
No. He was selling copies of Windows recovery media. The court disregarded testimony that the media was not equivalent to a license
nullcycle
It's more complex than that. https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/27/microsoft-attempts-to-spin-its-role-in-counterfeiting-case/
kevertje
That's MS's spin of it (which oddly clears them). Here's techdirt's take: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180426/00051939718/
NZSheeps
Yeah, but that's Microsoft. You can't trust big corporations! /s
mrleemur
Sauce needs all the updoots!
GeorgeHWBushsGhost
Thank you. This gives much more context than what OP posted.
GreaterDog
Yea, this post makes him and his partner out to be martyrs. He commissioned a Chinese company to make thousands of copies with the intention
Mentok
He was going to sell them at 25 cents each. Oh and you can download the content for free. This case is bullshit.
TheRealHMint
This is normal in the open source field. The code and binary are free, but you pay a fee for the service of being supplied a copy.
TheRealHMint
It is not illegal there, actually explicitly allowed in most licenses. So I can see where he got the idea to do this.
GreaterDog
of selling a recovery disk that you could otherwise obtain for free, turning a potential ~$600k profit. It's bullshit that the court placed
GreaterDog
the "financial harm" to MS at$25/disk, but by no means was this a legal or altruistic operation.
omh2
He plead guilty to that, and coping Dell's branding, but he is going to jail for producing counterfeit Windows licenses, which he never did
nullcycle
While the software could be obtained for free, not everyone would have the equipment or knowhow to download and burn the software 1/-
nullcycle
He was selling them for $0.25, he wasn't making a profit.
omh2
That is false. The outcome is still BS, but he was turning a profit, and had intended to make far more than he actually did
nullcycle
Lundgren had already pleaded guilty to infringing Dell’s trademark by copying the look of its discs... 1/-
nullcycle
but the value Microsoft convinced the judges those discs have (a total of $700,000) directly led to his 15-month sentence... 2/-
nullcycle
Lundgren was going to sell them to repair shops for a quarter each so they could hand them out to people who needed them. 3/
nullcycle
Selling them for $0.25 each would mean he would have to sell 2.4 million copies with no cost to himself to make 600k in profit.
GreaterDog
Woops I misattributed some of the numbers in the dispute. $6-700k was the cost MS attributed to the disks
nullcycle
"Hardly anyone even makes these discs any more, certainly not Microsoft"
adriedupoldprune
Because nobody needs them. All you need to make windows install media is a 4gb flash drive. I haven't installed an os from disk in 10 years.
IframedOJ
I still dont get it. What did he do wrong here from a legal perspective?
J0765
He charged for something Microsoft gives away free. Also the scale of the operation and international aspect is why customs got involved.
Kenblu24
Distributed MS software, which is against their TOS.
icookfoodandfightfire
https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-facts-about-a-recent-counterfeiting-case-brought-by-the-u-s-government/
chrimorg
Intended to profit from free, and copyrighted, software. Also created the disks to look like Dell OEM disks. Short - copyright infringement
omh2
Yes, but that isn't why he is going to jail. He is going to jail for producing counterfeit Windows licenses, which he didn't actually do
Cr1spyEvergr33n
He didn't pay the right people
gaidinbdj
That's literally what copyright infringement is. The "right people" here being Microsoft before he copied their software for mass-production
Cr1spyEvergr33n
I do realize that my previous comment was in the nuttiest of shells, you know.
Malkhuth
He didn't. The court's reasoning is critically flawed. Here is a really good analysis of the judgement: https://tdrt.io/gM4
omh2
The actual crimes he committed was creating the copies for commercial purposes without permission from MS to do so, and making them look
omh2
like Dell's recovery/installation media, both clearly illegal. The issue is that the case convicted him of producing counterfeit MS licenses
omh2
Which he did not do, the court actually disregarded testimony stating exactly that. That difference is the only reason he is facing jail
WardSharlow
I don't understand the confusion. He copied something he didn't have the right to copy, and he did it with intent to distribute it.
Mentok
You can go download it right now and burn a copy. The license is what m$ charges for.
idkalan
True except that you are NOT supposed to sell it. Hence the term FREEWARE. The license is for companies who want to make the discs & include
idkalan
Them in computers that were purchased
WardSharlow
If that's not copyright infringement, what possibly could be?
omh2
That isn't what the case was, he plead guilty to that, but he is going to jail for producing counterfeit Win licenses, which he didn't do.
MechanusIncarnate
legally he is in the wrong, but that is not interesting. Were his actions a moral failing?
heat132
I'd say they were since he was doing it to turn a profit, not to be charitable.
Cucucool
you don't make a profit when you sell a cd 0.25$
heat132
You do when you get that cd for free.
Bystandr
The confusion stems from ignorance. There is not enough detail in the titles and top paragraphs of the articles related for the less
Bystandr
legally proficient to understand. People often dont read beyond the first paragraph, and attempt to draw conclusions, that once drawn, are
Bystandr
harder to dissuade without subsequent patient explanation. Also, there is a high bias against microsoft and apple for profiteering.
Bystandr
If an article started with a succinct caption, such as MrTongue said : "Mr. Lundgren’s scheme was simple. He was counterfeiting Windows