We hear but we don’t understand. Russian is like a maddened American Bull Dog pulling at a leash that is rapidly fraying and we are like children hearing the barking and turning away to drink our nice juice.
And that's why I think political parties in Europe (I'm European myself) that propose to create "peace" by just stopping to support Ukraine are full of shit. Putin won't stop at the Ukrainian-Polish border. And even if he did, how can we as Europeans look into the mirror any more after having effectively sacrificed a democratic European country and its citizens into Russian hegemony for a shallow and brittle peace. As much as I hate the war, the alternative is unfortunately much worse.
I live in the neighborhood, have friends there. Asked them how is the life at war... They asked back 95% : what war ? They can't see shit with war. It's your owners who wants you to hate Russia and shit . I don't care, anyone hates or downotes these shits, their just don't want to see the truth. :)
So yes, we're very aware of them, because they still pop up from time to time in our waters and skies. I'm 35 and most of the nordic and baltic states/countries are anything but blind to the russian threat.
My wife’s parents were from Ukraine. They came to the USA to escape the Soviets after barely surviving the Nazis. They had harrowing stories! Slava Ukraini! Heroyam slava!
When I was in the Peace Corps in Bulgaria, the older folks, mainly pensioners, had EXTREMELY fond memories of times in the USSR. The folks I worked with (in their 30s-50s) had fond-ish memories of “summer camps” picking apples and harvesting potat. They’re wary though; they saw the rise of the mafiosa (I knew someone! Tony, had a bar in my town) at the expense of the public during the collapse in the 90s. I think overall they realize it’s not going to be good, as they are def EU oriented.
My non-Finnish internet friends learned last night that the border between Finland and Russia is closed because we don't want to take in Russians. "But what about the innocent Russians?" and well, yea, there are innocent Russians, but there are also those that want to come here to spread propaganda, to buy land, to cause issues, and so on. We Finns know not to play with Russia.
[ It's a bit more complicated, another reason for the current border closure is that Russia started a hybrid operation to recruit people in the Middle East wanting into the EU, fly them to Russia, and then push them over the border to Finland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland-Russia_border#November_2023_border_closures ]
Having these two come to a head simultaneously a bit too much of a coincidence, a much better explanation is that it's the same thing on another front. Trump is a Russian asset.
The only peace that can be had with Vladimir Putin is through successful deterrence. He will only respect boundaries that not only _can_ be defended, he must know that they _will_ be defended. Be it borders or otherwise, he is a master at calculating precisely which lines he can cross and get away with.
Biased. However Stoltenberg was very good. Let see what the Dutch guy will do. Besides this the real issues are on international and national levels. Moving a tank battalion from Germany to Lithuania is amazingly complicated and takes months (!) – not including the preparation.
This was before Trump took office. You can barely make out the Dec 2024 date in the grey print. Of course Europe was relying on the US, Trump hadn't yet thrown Zelensky to the wolves on national TV. Europe will band together now or it will perish separately. The US is as good as gone.
Europe is just gonna have to figure this one out while we get our shit together, but blame Russia, we did nothing but help until this fuckin puppet with Putin's hand up his ass was elected.
Keep in mind that he won the popular vote once, and we're so polarized that the race is always too tight. Propaganda is incredibly effective, and sure a lot of it is coming from inside, but there's also a lot coming from the outside as well.
People not voting is also a huge problem. Data has shown that if there was 100% voter turnout, it'd be a democratic presidential/Congress/Senate win almost everytime
It's common knowledge that Russia is interfering with our elections, and that the Republicans are interfering with our elections, and that our system just fuckin sucks in general, but sure, blame the people at the bottom.
Most of them are just dumb and indoctrinated, I don't subscribe to the idea that they're all evil and racist. Sure, they're generally incredibly more likely to be racist, but they're also far more likely to be uninformed than the left. Most of the conservatives I know are just propagandized as fuck. My litmus test is whether or not they own a red hat, if they do, they're usually human garbage, if they don't, they're usually just pretty dumb
I have seen former KGB interrogation and execution chambers in Estonia and Lithuania. Russia, the Soviet Union, is a terrorist state basically throughout history.
Too many of my fellow countrymen happily voted people who admire and exalt Putin and the Russian way into all levels of our government. Even worse are those that "had to" sit it out because they saw a TrumpTok that told them "Kamala bad, Trump cool" or "both sides the same".
In tsarist times, exiles literally had to march to Siberia in chains, and when they got there only then did their sentence start. This is not to excuse anything the Soviets did tho...
Lol right... guys, guess what? You know all those movies making the Russians out as the bad guys? (Looks around so nobody is eavesdropping) They actually are... like for realsies
It's important to delineate that Russia is not a terrorist entity but an imperial one. And that's much worse. Beyond resources, it means structure, generational memory, institutionalised ideology and an irrevocable seat at the international table, meaning access (even now) to immense leverage around the world. Isis had weapons stolen from a government. Russia *is* the government.
Their methods of imperialism are arguably worse than the US and British.
Both those countries did awful things, including genocide and mass starvation at a few points in history, but Russia has been doing them repeatedly and often throughout history into modern times. Joseph Stalin is on record as the person responsible for the second largest amount of deaths in history. Stalin only trails behind Mao. Both killed more people than the Nazis.
Politkovskaya book “Putins Russia” reflects on that. Its available on most online book stores, worth the money and worth the read. She was assassinated for her criticism of Putin and KGB/FSB regime in general
As a German, I hope we have proven that we learned a lot from this. This is to such a point we can't even criticize Israel for turning Gaza into a parking space...
My Father was a POW in Germany. He didn't hold grudges, and had many German business acquaintances and friends, by the time I came along ('55). The suicides after the war were tragic, not all, but enough.
Friday June 28th we left Jersey harbour at 10 a.m. after having waited an hour on themquayside on th S.S.Isle of Sark. After a comfortable trip arrived at Guernsey about 12 o'clock midday and were instructed to go ashore and spend the day in Guernsey but to be on the ship bx 8 p.m. as we were to joinmin a convoy off the "Casquets" about 10 p.m. Had lunch in the town and visited Harold Reiner at the Westminster Bank, learned from about his son, paid in £25 to Oxford and £25 to Morton Green.
After tea, about 4:30 pm, we decided to make for the ships to get on board early and get the chuîldren to bed. Some food was bought and we made for the ship, arriving on the quay at 6:55. Three planes were seen coming in from the east, but no notice was taken of these till the sound of machine gun fire was heard and the firet bomb dropped about 70/100 yards at 7 pm prompt.
After lying against the office walls behind a lorrx we managed with a couple of rushes to reach the low water jetty and lay there with dockers and frenchmen covering the children with their bodies for an hour and a quarter during which time I counted well over 100 bombs falling all around. There were between 200 /300 people lying down below us.
Some minor injuries were caused through shrapnel and though several bombs fell on the top jetty none came through and at 8:15 pm the last of the raiders left in the direction of Jersey. There were three ships in harbour, the S.S. Isle of Sark, S.S.Haslemere and Sheringham, the first two ships kept up continuous fire with A.A.Guns,
but the gunner from the Sheringhsm was walking up and down complaining that his men had left him.About 9:30 we got away and after a quiet trip arrived in Southampton at 9 a.m. Sat Morning. The effect of the bombing was more apparent on the women than the men, the general complaing was that their mouths had gone dry and parched......
"...coming in from the east, but no notice was taken of these till the sound of machine gun fire was heard, and the first bomb dropped about 10/100 yards away. at 1 p prompt (?) After lying against the office wall behind a lorry we managed with a couple of rushes(?) to reach the low water jetty and lay there with dockers(?) and Frenchmen covering the children with their bodies for an hour and a quarter during which time I counted well over 100 bombs falling all around...
I'd like to read that but I'm just be frank, I can't. I was taught cursive in school and can still do my own, but man was that not actually needed as this is one of like 2 times I've come across it in the last decade.
This is also a particular kind of European script. When I lived in Bulgaria, my host Baba (да е все още жива и здрава) had very similar cursive style, but in Cyrillic, of course.
Try cursive written two ways on the same page to save paper. My Dear Tom, written at the start, then on the last page sideways she signed off as Margaret.
had same, on ultra thin paper - colony days: my grand-father and his siblings were born in S.Africa, India, Indian Ocean, Ceylon etc. great stamp collection.
Fun fact: the Hammer & Sickle is neither Russian nor inherently Communist... in fact Lenin hated it as a symbol, and it wasn't adopted until the late 20s.
It was originally designed by a French artist, commissioned by the Chilean government to create a design for their coins that represented the collaboration of industry and agriculture. You can see it on Chilean pesos 30 years before the Russian Revolution even happened.
That's neither fun nor a fact. Equating those symbols is 100% an opinion - and I don't even think it's an especially widely held opinion. No prominent anti-hate groups or charities identify it as such, and it's on the flag of multiple countries, as well as hundreds of peaceful organisations. You're welcome to that opinion, but you can't claim that's a fact.
That's sort of what I was pointing out - but it's a real shame, because the left hasn't got as much potent symbology as the far right so it sucks that a historic and powerful symbol of working class solidarity is broadly associated with authoritarianism.
This is just so scary that even now and even in Europe and even in countries next to Russia people are still so ingnorant to this simple basic truth. For many, who are not even denying possibility of invasion, war still seems like digging holes in forest and playing some heroic shooting game, where worst that can happen is being shot by enemies there.
Drones these days too. Spy drones watching and waiting for targets. Swarms of armed drones flown from some safe location hundreds of miles away. No-one would be safe.
I have, because there are those who are able to separate politics from the people. Russia as a state entity is at the moment bellicose, brutal and not trustworthy, just like the US. Doesn't change the fact that the people are still warm and the culture, the food, the architecture a thing to behold.
That's nice. But here is not only Finland in Europe and you should not undereatimate people creating gray zone even if stating that Russia is an enemy. That's actually a quite strong warfare tactics that gets many people not even noticing falling into trap
I have, and some of them have been and still are part of the government, which makes it a lot worse. Luckily the majority of general public still has some sense and the corrupt and/or "useful idiots" have to lay low for now or be voted out in the next elections.
Unfortunately here in Germany we have a lot of people denying all the rape and other war crimes committed by the Russians at the end of WW II, when they invaded east Germany. Something along the lines of "That didn't happen, because those Russians were heroes who liberated Germany, and even if it happened it's okay because it only happened to Nazis."
Just a little moment of WWII. When Russian/Soviet tanks rolled through eastern Austria, they raped kind of every woman and girl they could find and tied their naked bodies to the front of their tanks so that nobody shoots them.
My (Dutch) mom's uncle was German, married to the sister of her mom. He got taken to work in German factories in 1940 and at the end of the war, disappeared. He returned in 1951 (!) from a Russian prison camp finding his wife still waiting for him despite not even knowing he was still alive and her surroundings pressuring her to remarry. I adviced him as a dumb kid to write down his history but he never spoke a word of what he experienced. He took his own life a few years after his wife passed.
I watched through Banged Up Abroad and the Russian prison camps were the worst prisons in the world. And there are some really bad prisons in other places. I found in Vietnam lots of the people weren’t sharing any knowledge of the war with anyone. They literally buried everything and tried to forget
I'm from Latvia. Same happened here - "liberating" to invade and commit their own horrible crimes that are absolutely in no way better. But aaaahhhhh, it gives so much nice gray zone to buid the lies and brainwash people. And it becomes easier by every generation we move away from those events
The only people romanticising war are the ones who never saw it. It is literally the worst of humanity all happening at once. Getting killed in battle is a blessing, because everything in war is worse than death.
Well yes, sure, but tell me, how old are people that actually experienced war in Europe and how many of them are here. They sure as hell are not majority
More than you think. Probably more than i think. Russia invaded Georgia not that long ago. The Yugoslav wars aren't that far in the past either. I personally remember both.
Yes, Russia invaded Georgia and it was gray enough for people and then they took parts of Ukraine and it was still gray enough for people and seems with nowadays situation it is still gray enough for far too many. Yugoslav wars were super brutal, but let's be real, most of those countries are not in EU for political reasons and that sadly also means loss of voice of those people who could tell about horrors of war.
ww2 still looms over europe, it is not true that europeans don't remember war atrocities. we get them taught in school. but because of that no one wants war in Europe and pacifism is the main ideology. the problem nowadays is though that even the us turns into a dictatorship, so what to do? unfortunately being non-militaristic and peaceful is no option anymore. sad when u think about what we all could achieve when working together in peace instead of doing an arms race all over again.
weoneo
Yes! More hate! This is what we need! Let's all hate on Russians! This is the most humane thing to do!
stopdoggybarking3
We hear but we don’t understand. Russian is like a maddened American Bull Dog pulling at a leash that is rapidly fraying and we are like children hearing the barking and turning away to drink our nice juice.
TanithRosenbaum
And that's why I think political parties in Europe (I'm European myself) that propose to create "peace" by just stopping to support Ukraine are full of shit. Putin won't stop at the Ukrainian-Polish border. And even if he did, how can we as Europeans look into the mirror any more after having effectively sacrificed a democratic European country and its citizens into Russian hegemony for a shallow and brittle peace. As much as I hate the war, the alternative is unfortunately much worse.
madmax17
Russians are like that? 😂 God they suck, Nazi Ruskia.
JinButOnHisPhone
carr99
I live in the neighborhood, have friends there. Asked them how is the life at war... They asked back 95% : what war ? They can't see shit with war. It's your owners who wants you to hate Russia and shit . I don't care, anyone hates or downotes these shits, their just don't want to see the truth. :)
Pluppokopter
Sweden actually put a gay neon sign in the stockholm archipelago 2015
Pluppokopter
So yes, we're very aware of them, because they still pop up from time to time in our waters and skies. I'm 35 and most of the nordic and baltic states/countries are anything but blind to the russian threat.
JohnSmithterms
Does anyone have the original source link? I had a look on youtube but cannot find it.
klean9
My wife’s parents were from Ukraine. They came to the USA to escape the Soviets after barely surviving the Nazis. They had harrowing stories! Slava Ukraini! Heroyam slava!
poundingCode
Read Bloodlands. Then you will know the horrors that Russia visited upon Ukraine and why Ukraine will fight to the death.
joshuasplinth
When I was in the Peace Corps in Bulgaria, the older folks, mainly pensioners, had EXTREMELY fond memories of times in the USSR. The folks I worked with (in their 30s-50s) had fond-ish memories of “summer camps” picking apples and harvesting potat. They’re wary though; they saw the rise of the mafiosa (I knew someone! Tony, had a bar in my town) at the expense of the public during the collapse in the 90s. I think overall they realize it’s not going to be good, as they are def EU oriented.
Lontri
My non-Finnish internet friends learned last night that the border between Finland and Russia is closed because we don't want to take in Russians. "But what about the innocent Russians?" and well, yea, there are innocent Russians, but there are also those that want to come here to spread propaganda, to buy land, to cause issues, and so on. We Finns know not to play with Russia.
ExTechOp
[ It's a bit more complicated, another reason for the current border closure is that Russia started a hybrid operation to recruit people in the Middle East wanting into the EU, fly them to Russia, and then push them over the border to Finland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland-Russia_border#November_2023_border_closures ]
naturebowgame2000
We've got the USA on one side and Russia on the other... not the best time for Europe
ExTechOp
Having these two come to a head simultaneously a bit too much of a coincidence, a much better explanation is that it's the same thing on another front. Trump is a Russian asset.
naturebowgame2000
it scares me more to think that he might a real representation of the voter's preference. At least Putin is intelligent
Grapeape2000
Unrelated but, most Lithuanians (aside from speaking Lithuanian) seem to be fairly fluent in English and Russian.
Deshalope
Well yeah, there's only so much you can do with either of the Baltic languages alone.
Robbann
when Russians talk about making peace, it just means that they're trying to reload
LamarTrillington
And garbage c*nts who support Donald Trump are struggling to make it happen HERE.
mrjetro
This lady is 100% right about Russia and Russians.
Pulsifer
The only peace that can be had with Vladimir Putin is through successful deterrence. He will only respect boundaries that not only _can_ be defended, he must know that they _will_ be defended. Be it borders or otherwise, he is a master at calculating precisely which lines he can cross and get away with.
DukePhelan
Russia is a terrorist state on the same as North Korea. That the state is allowed to continue to exist is a blight upon all of humanity.
sonomarco
Cannot understand how so many Americans consider the Russian invasion of Ukraine to be "a regional issue."
TrueNorthernLights
It's like I keep saying, war is inevitable. Do you want to fight a war against Russia? Or the Soviet Union?
betterlate
Why on Earth didn´t they pick a person from Poland or the Baltics to chair NATO?
ExTechOp
The EU High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (effectively EU's foreign minister) is Kaja Kallas from Estonia, so she's not going to "go easy" on Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Representative_of_the_Union_for_Foreign_Affairs_and_Security_Policy
fake40nedeso
Biased. However Stoltenberg was very good. Let see what the Dutch guy will do. Besides this the real issues are on international and national levels. Moving a tank battalion from Germany to Lithuania is amazingly complicated and takes months (!) – not including the preparation.
madmax17
He did well at the 'Trump interview' 😁😊
daguq
Choose any of a number of Muslim countries and all that she said can be applied to the USA.
SwissScars
Thanks America.
OnlyByMoonlight
America can't do everything.
hyperchondriac
This was before Trump took office. You can barely make out the Dec 2024 date in the grey print. Of course Europe was relying on the US, Trump hadn't yet thrown Zelensky to the wolves on national TV. Europe will band together now or it will perish separately. The US is as good as gone.
pvtsquirel
Europe is just gonna have to figure this one out while we get our shit together, but blame Russia, we did nothing but help until this fuckin puppet with Putin's hand up his ass was elected.
do7rkb5n
I agree about Russian involvement, but we all have a common opponent here. Some conglomerate of Russia, US, and their calitalists/oligarchs.
7hatsBollocks
Wish Biden had allowed internal strikes from the start. It's better than the traitor we have now, but that cost time and Ukranian lives.
pvtsquirel
Well that might as well have been a declaration of war on a superpower and probably WW3, so maybe it's a good thing you aren't Biden.
7hatsBollocks
You're not paying attention I guess. It was allowed eventually and no ww3. Maybe I should be Biden, just 2 years later?
pvtsquirel
Well shit, I apologize Mr President lol
ObeseDuck
That was 10 years ago now. And you chose him again.
KirchoffsVoltageLaw
To be honest America voted for Trump 3 times. If it wasn't for COVID the 2020 election would've gone to him as well. The race was too tight
pvtsquirel
Keep in mind that he won the popular vote once, and we're so polarized that the race is always too tight. Propaganda is incredibly effective, and sure a lot of it is coming from inside, but there's also a lot coming from the outside as well.
KirchoffsVoltageLaw
People not voting is also a huge problem. Data has shown that if there was 100% voter turnout, it'd be a democratic presidential/Congress/Senate win almost everytime
ThanksForTheThing
Idiots with weak education were bombarded with propaganda, built up over decades, eventually influencing them to choose him again.
do7rkb5n
Weak education is also part of the plan.
pvtsquirel
It's common knowledge that Russia is interfering with our elections, and that the Republicans are interfering with our elections, and that our system just fuckin sucks in general, but sure, blame the people at the bottom.
ObeseDuck
Blame the people who should be blamed! And if you never voted for him then this is not for you.
pvtsquirel
Most of them are just dumb and indoctrinated, I don't subscribe to the idea that they're all evil and racist. Sure, they're generally incredibly more likely to be racist, but they're also far more likely to be uninformed than the left. Most of the conservatives I know are just propagandized as fuck. My litmus test is whether or not they own a red hat, if they do, they're usually human garbage, if they don't, they're usually just pretty dumb
B0reas
I have seen former KGB interrogation and execution chambers in Estonia and Lithuania. Russia, the Soviet Union, is a terrorist state basically throughout history.
benderDriver
America not far behind
brndrll
Too many of my fellow countrymen happily voted people who admire and exalt Putin and the Russian way into all levels of our government. Even worse are those that "had to" sit it out because they saw a TrumpTok that told them "Kamala bad, Trump cool" or "both sides the same".
Deshalope
Also note the brief mention of Siberia - people were sent there in cattle wagons in winter with barely anything on hand.
AlwaysDownvotesDogs
In tsarist times, exiles literally had to march to Siberia in chains, and when they got there only then did their sentence start.
This is not to excuse anything the Soviets did tho...
Kilo11
The sky is also blue
smokinghashalg
Lol right... guys, guess what? You know all those movies making the Russians out as the bad guys? (Looks around so nobody is eavesdropping) They actually are... like for realsies
Justanotherbloodyacctname
It's important to delineate that Russia is not a terrorist entity but an imperial one. And that's much worse. Beyond resources, it means structure, generational memory, institutionalised ideology and an irrevocable seat at the international table, meaning access (even now) to immense leverage around the world. Isis had weapons stolen from a government. Russia *is* the government.
VictusVonGuyver
Their methods of imperialism are arguably worse than the US and British.
Both those countries did awful things, including genocide and mass starvation at a few points in history, but Russia has been doing them repeatedly and often throughout history into modern times. Joseph Stalin is on record as the person responsible for the second largest amount of deaths in history. Stalin only trails behind Mao. Both killed more people than the Nazis.
orp0piru
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre
ElAburrimientoMePuede
I agree, same with USA with Guantanamo, torture like waterboarding, Abu Ghraib and so much more. No superpower is ever "good".
sundaymondayhippyday
At least the USA does not threaten to invade sovereign nations….. oh yeah, go ahead, continue….
ProppaGanda
Yup. I come from Poland - a country where CIA had their secret torture camps.
CaptAlbertAlexander
I have seen the same shit in ex east German. That shits insane
TanithRosenbaum
Yea the Stasi were some deranged motherfuckers alright.
Chronepsis
I mean a lot of them just went from Gestapo to Stasi, no wonder they were such monsters
TanithRosenbaum
Yea makes sense. And even if they didn't, I'm sure the training they got from the KGB wasn't much gentler than what the Gestapo did either.
CaptAlbertAlexander
I mean same shit different paint.
MuffinProof
As an Estonian, yup.
RussianMafia1337
As the Russian Mafia, nyet
factcheckmate
Politkovskaya book “Putins Russia” reflects on that. Its available on most online book stores, worth the money and worth the read. She was assassinated for her criticism of Putin and KGB/FSB regime in general
rebelft
Western Europe never really experienced it, so they are still ignorant, but hopefully a bit less than even a few years back.
SwissScars
What do YOU think was happening in Western Europe in the early 1940s? Under German occupation.
rebelft
I dont count East Germany as 'Western'. Everything that experienced russia i count as Eastern
lampuki
They seem to have forgotten and think it was snhappening somewhere far - Netherlands as seen by Baltics expat
rebelft
Germany were mild comparing to the russian horde. Read about what they did to populations they were 'freeing'.
BavarianGuy
As a German, I hope we have proven that we learned a lot from this. This is to such a point we can't even criticize Israel for turning Gaza into a parking space...
SwissScars
My Father was a POW in Germany. He didn't hold grudges, and had many German business acquaintances and friends, by the time I came along ('55). The suicides after the war were tragic, not all, but enough.
SwissScars
For those who have forgotten European History, this account of my mother's escape from St Peter Port, Guernsey, Channel Islands. June 28th 1940
SwissScars
It starts "...coming in from the east, but no notice was taken of these till the sound of machine gun fire was heard" Should I continue?
SwissScars
Friday June 28th we left Jersey harbour at 10 a.m. after having waited an hour on themquayside on th S.S.Isle of Sark. After a comfortable trip arrived at Guernsey about 12 o'clock midday and were instructed to go ashore and spend the day in Guernsey but to be on the ship bx 8 p.m. as we were to joinmin a convoy off the "Casquets" about 10 p.m. Had lunch in the town and visited Harold Reiner at the Westminster Bank, learned from about his son, paid in £25 to Oxford and £25 to Morton Green.
SwissScars
After tea, about 4:30 pm, we decided to make for the ships to get on board early and get the chuîldren to bed. Some food was bought and we made for the ship, arriving on the quay at 6:55. Three planes were seen coming in from the east, but no notice was taken of these till the sound of machine gun fire was heard and the firet bomb dropped about 70/100 yards at 7 pm prompt.
SwissScars
After lying against the office walls behind a lorrx we managed with a couple of rushes to reach the low water jetty and lay there with dockers and frenchmen covering the children with their bodies for an hour and a quarter during which time I counted well over 100 bombs falling all around. There were between 200 /300 people lying down below us.
SwissScars
Some minor injuries were caused through shrapnel and though several bombs fell on the top jetty none came through and at 8:15 pm the last of the raiders left in the direction of Jersey. There were three ships in harbour, the S.S. Isle of Sark, S.S.Haslemere and Sheringham, the first two ships kept up continuous fire with A.A.Guns,
SwissScars
but the gunner from the Sheringhsm was walking up and down complaining that his men had left him.About 9:30 we got away and after a quiet trip arrived in Southampton at 9 a.m. Sat Morning.
The effect of the bombing was more apparent on the women than the men, the general complaing was that their mouths had gone dry and parched......
historymemesandstuff
What does it say? It's really tough to read
SwissScars
It starts "...coming in from the east, but no notice was taken of these till the sound of machine gun fire was heard" Should I continue?
historymemesandstuff
Yes please
AntaNce
Text now attatched to main post (multiple posts) thanks to @SwissScars
CNChapeL
"...coming in from the east, but no notice was taken of these till the sound of machine gun fire was heard, and the first bomb dropped about 10/100 yards away. at 1 p prompt (?) After lying against the office wall behind a lorry we managed with a couple of rushes(?) to reach the low water jetty and lay there with dockers(?) and Frenchmen covering the children with their bodies for an hour and a quarter during which time I counted well over 100 bombs falling all around...
afewgoodhens
"70/100 yards" and "7 p prompt" (7 pm). Rushes and dockers are correct.
CNChapeL
There were between 200/300 people lying down
Goldensands
I'd like to read that but I'm just be frank, I can't. I was taught cursive in school and can still do my own, but man was that not actually needed as this is one of like 2 times I've come across it in the last decade.
joshuasplinth
This is also a particular kind of European script. When I lived in Bulgaria, my host Baba (да е все още жива и здрава) had very similar cursive style, but in Cyrillic, of course.
SwissScars
It starts "...coming in from the east, but no notice was taken of these till the sound of machine gun fire was heard" Should I continue?
Goldensands
If you wouldn't mind it would be appreciated, yes
AntaNce
It's up there now and worth the read.
SwissScars
Text now attatched to main post (multiple posts)
SwissScars
OK, gimme arf'n'our - or 30 min in modern.
Kingstonboy
Try cursive written two ways on the same page to save paper. My Dear Tom, written at the start, then on the last page sideways she signed off as Margaret.
Goldensands
Waht
AntaNce
Cryptographers, your family are cryptographers.
PubMed12927120suckssobad
Wow. Thanks
Kingstonboy
This is the other side. From my family history collection.
PubMed12927120suckssobad
Written August 10, from High(something). That's a far as i got
Kingstonboy
Halifax. my family is from nova Scotia.
SwissScars
had same, on ultra thin paper - colony days: my grand-father and his siblings were born in S.Africa, India, Indian Ocean, Ceylon etc. great stamp collection.
Kingstonboy
Yes, the paper is very thin.
drGrafenberg
Yeah, and americans still think the hammer and sickle is a cute and edgy symbol.
G0MeatCube
No we don't
sprayingmantis4
It’s cool if you ignore all the atrocities tied to it.
drGrafenberg
Fair point.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
Fun fact: the Hammer & Sickle is neither Russian nor inherently Communist... in fact Lenin hated it as a symbol, and it wasn't adopted until the late 20s.
It was originally designed by a French artist, commissioned by the Chilean government to create a design for their coins that represented the collaboration of industry and agriculture. You can see it on Chilean pesos 30 years before the Russian Revolution even happened.
drGrafenberg
Fun fact: both the swastika and the hammer & sickle are today symbols of hate and should never be displayed.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
That's neither fun nor a fact. Equating those symbols is 100% an opinion - and I don't even think it's an especially widely held opinion. No prominent anti-hate groups or charities identify it as such, and it's on the flag of multiple countries, as well as hundreds of peaceful organisations. You're welcome to that opinion, but you can't claim that's a fact.
Amomani
Just like swastikas, sometimes a symbols meaning gets changed.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
That's sort of what I was pointing out - but it's a real shame, because the left hasn't got as much potent symbology as the far right so it sucks that a historic and powerful symbol of working class solidarity is broadly associated with authoritarianism.
drGrafenberg
*With mass murder and genocide.
Watchoutwherethehuskiesgo
This is just so scary that even now and even in Europe and even in countries next to Russia people are still so ingnorant to this simple basic truth. For many, who are not even denying possibility of invasion, war still seems like digging holes in forest and playing some heroic shooting game, where worst that can happen is being shot by enemies there.
emu314159127001
war is artillery, and also other stuff. bombings/missiles are above that, literally and figuratively, but that's the backbone. you get blown up, hard.
Dartfordian1
Drones these days too. Spy drones watching and waiting for targets. Swarms of armed drones flown from some safe location hundreds of miles away. No-one would be safe.
emu314159127001
Forgot about the drones. Yeah, whole new game
MaleProstateMilker88
Never met a Finn who speaks fondly of Russia.
TurdBurglar3000
I have, because there are those who are able to separate politics from the people. Russia as a state entity is at the moment bellicose, brutal and not trustworthy, just like the US. Doesn't change the fact that the people are still warm and the culture, the food, the architecture a thing to behold.
MaleProstateMilker88
Russia=/=Russian. And I wouldn't say "Russia at the moment" when it has been like that for many decades at least.
Watchoutwherethehuskiesgo
That's nice. But here is not only Finland in Europe and you should not undereatimate people creating gray zone even if stating that Russia is an enemy. That's actually a quite strong warfare tactics that gets many people not even noticing falling into trap
madmax17
Cause Finns are smart 🧠
gleebus
I have, and some of them have been and still are part of the government, which makes it a lot worse. Luckily the majority of general public still has some sense and the corrupt and/or "useful idiots" have to lay low for now or be voted out in the next elections.
FractalB
Unfortunately here in Germany we have a lot of people denying all the rape and other war crimes committed by the Russians at the end of WW II, when they invaded east Germany. Something along the lines of "That didn't happen, because those Russians were heroes who liberated Germany, and even if it happened it's okay because it only happened to Nazis."
vladrichdemaclant
Just a little moment of WWII. When Russian/Soviet tanks rolled through eastern Austria, they raped kind of every woman and girl they could find and tied their naked bodies to the front of their tanks so that nobody shoots them.
ricpaul
My (Dutch) mom's uncle was German, married to the sister of her mom. He got taken to work in German factories in 1940 and at the end of the war, disappeared. He returned in 1951 (!) from a Russian prison camp finding his wife still waiting for him despite not even knowing he was still alive and her surroundings pressuring her to remarry. I adviced him as a dumb kid to write down his history but he never spoke a word of what he experienced. He took his own life a few years after his wife passed.
neilwatkinsfromaccounting
I watched through Banged Up Abroad and the Russian prison camps were the worst prisons in the world. And there are some really bad prisons in other places. I found in Vietnam lots of the people weren’t sharing any knowledge of the war with anyone. They literally buried everything and tried to forget
Watchoutwherethehuskiesgo
I'm from Latvia. Same happened here - "liberating" to invade and commit their own horrible crimes that are absolutely in no way better. But aaaahhhhh, it gives so much nice gray zone to buid the lies and brainwash people. And it becomes easier by every generation we move away from those events
Deshalope
Yay, vēl kāds no Latvijas :)
Watchoutwherethehuskiesgo
Jā, mazliet sašutis latvietis, kas gribēja izklaidēties ar bildītēm, bet uzvilkās :)
TiredBanana
The only people romanticising war are the ones who never saw it. It is literally the worst of humanity all happening at once. Getting killed in battle is a blessing, because everything in war is worse than death.
BranDohCalrissian
This was so well-said; im shaken, wise stranger.
ChazzK
"War is not hell. Hell, theoretically, is reserved for those who did something to deserve it."
Watchoutwherethehuskiesgo
Well yes, sure, but tell me, how old are people that actually experienced war in Europe and how many of them are here. They sure as hell are not majority
TiredBanana
More than you think. Probably more than i think.
Russia invaded Georgia not that long ago.
The Yugoslav wars aren't that far in the past either.
I personally remember both.
Watchoutwherethehuskiesgo
Yes, Russia invaded Georgia and it was gray enough for people and then they took parts of Ukraine and it was still gray enough for people and seems with nowadays situation it is still gray enough for far too many. Yugoslav wars were super brutal, but let's be real, most of those countries are not in EU for political reasons and that sadly also means loss of voice of those people who could tell about horrors of war.
softbrickofironfeathers
ww2 still looms over europe, it is not true that europeans don't remember war atrocities. we get them taught in school. but because of that no one wants war in Europe and pacifism is the main ideology. the problem nowadays is though that even the us turns into a dictatorship, so what to do? unfortunately being non-militaristic and peaceful is no option anymore. sad when u think about what we all could achieve when working together in peace instead of doing an arms race all over again.