I could use a bit of that right now. Been out of work since February. Not going back until July. Kidney issues and severe sleep apnea. Medical bills piling up isn't fun x.x
*worrying if I'll be a good father, a good husband, if I'm good enough, if I'll be able to support my family, if I'll keep my job, if...(spoon)...it's...gonna be ok.
It's a really bad idea, unless you're actually disabled or something and can't do them. What happens if your partner dies or becomes too ill to do it or something? And of course there's divorce. All the able-bodied adults in the household should be taking on some of the responsibilities. That includes adult children living with parents, too.
Yep definitely. I'm physically disabled, to the point of not being able to work. But my girlfriend has never had any real drive to even try and work low paid jobs, let alone earn the money required to provide for her child. So even now I feel I have no choice but to try and find a way of making money myself. Otherwise I fear once her parents are dead and no longer there to support them, they'll just end up homeless.
I mean, so is she. It seems nice on the surface but I've found imbalanced memes like this are usually made by men who've never lived with a partner and believe the very very old "men are responsible for all bills while doing the worst hell jobs" jargon, or made by delusional men who live with a woman who brings in half the income AND is left with all the housework/childcare AND emotional labor thanks to the dude's lazy ass.
Yes, but I doubt this post is about couples in an equal relationship. It is still common for men to be the sole or main "bread winner" in the relationship, and not necessarily out of choice. Many men, not just old ones, were taught from a young age that they must be the provider in a family, and many find they have no choice when the woman theyre with don't have the same drive to build a career.
This is one of the main reasons why more men commit suicide than women.
Is it the bare minimum if the man is the only one working and focusing on these things though?
If I had a man who provided for me I'd certainly be commending him.
Because tbh, the reason this post is so relateable to so many men is because so many are still in a position where they feel they have no choice but to be the sole provider. And the stress of that leads to something like 4 times as many men committing suicide than women.
No, don't take it too seriously. I love you for who you are, just trying to lighten the mood in this sometimes miserable world... Aiming for healthy relationships is a good thing. Let's all keep doing that!
it's for their OnlyFans ... it's ok. their kind neighbor set it up for them and didn't even bother them when they were at home, installed the camera during office hours. lovely community!
I asked my daughter’s mother (not together) at the end of our relationship, did you ever even want me or did you just need me? She replied, “I didn’t even need you!” I guess getting her out of her motel and into an apartment, getting her glasses, getting her mom a car, getting us an SUV, and keeping both mine and her moms homes paid during the pandemic was nothing.. now I’m a single father and honestly. It got better.
My ex said that to me not long ago. I don't think they mean it. I think it is a way of inflicting pain when someone doesn't know how to clearly express themselves. Or they were just being massive assholes!
I like the feeling of being needed, but like emotionally. It's more dramatic & perhaps a therapist would scoff & ask me to be more healthy, but building something special with someone for years to the point that the idea of losing them is so devastating that you can only phrase it as *needing* them, not simply wanting them. That makes sense to me
You'd be surprised how many men get mad they're wanted but not needed. My thought is perhaps they don't like that because it changes the power dynamic.
Yeah, I thought wanting and loving my ex was enough. I didn't strictly need him. I made enough money for both of us and was healthy enough not to need need someone's help. Wanting him for him was apparently not enough.
Sometimes people wont want you as much as you want them, thats what happens when you deal with individuals. It sucks but its also not good to try and force it either.
Its not even a specific type of "man" women use influence and fear to force their will on others. Thats likely why they are getting downvoted. Blaming half of those responsible isnt cutting it with folks anymore, many have seen that its a human on human issue not just a sex/gender issue. If you have any doubts look at maga women for a blunt example.
Or cus society tells men if they arent needed they have no worth? When your existence is boiled down to "what have you done for me lately" instead who you are as a sentient being its bound to fuck alot of em up. Same way being told how frail and precious fucked up alot women. We need to raise people not commodities and commodifiers.
You are very right. I think we also need to better encourage those (of every gender) who have been societally brainwashed to put in the work to unbrainwash themselves as much as possible. We're not stuck with the dumb shit taught to us for life. Change takes energy, but dissatisfaction is a great motivator.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, there absolutely are a lot of men like that. I thought it was pretty clear you were talking about a specific kind of man. The whole "traditional lifestyle" deal is very against women having careers or even an education
The dvs are likely cus it seems to ignore how society as a whole not just some men are the cause for that sort of thinking. Just look to maga for the women who push those same ideals and think over why they benefit. In the end it all boils down to class war, if you have enough resources at hand it doesnt matter what your fiddly bits are. Some use raw force others use subversion and manipulation.
Yes it's ultimately a class war, but if you think women and people of color won't end up on the bottom of every caste, you aren't paying attention to history. The fiddly bits and melanin will matter, because that's part of how facism works.
Looking at history we see plenty of examples of women in the upper echelons of the structure doing their best to keep other women down, same goes for colorism with poc communities. Dunno why youd take such a weird assumption in thinking im not aware of any of that.
A lot of us were raise with the expectation that if you're not needed, then you're worthless. That doesn't excuse bad behavior but put it in that context. Imagine being told oh you're worthless I just keep you around for amusement and how does that make you feel?
Yep, but dont overlook those who saw how to exploit that image. The "patriarchy" was held up equally by both men and women because they wanted to exploit that system for their own gain, if you want modern examples for women look to maga women or the "sparkle sparkle" ladies. If ya want older look to the rich matriarchs that helped raised not just the boys but the girls that would propagate the same system later on. It boils down to class warfare/stratified society if you look at the big picture.
I'm not sure you're 100% correct as women have fought pretty hard for the same legal rights that men have held and unfortunately they are still fighting for many of those rights today. Of course there are outliers but they are a minority, not majority. As seen at the ballot box whenever legal abortion has been put on the agenda, despite right wing legislators. This is very much a war of right wing conservatives vs the rest of the society
Sure and that's wrong but women were also told that they were important as mothers and wives. That doesn't excuse the very real oppression most women suffered or the oppression that many women suffer.
it's different for the case of men. Not worse just different where we're told if you're not needed you are worthless. Whereas a woman who wasn't needed could still have value as a wife or a mother. A man is told he has no intrinsic value has a husband or a father. It's toxic for both groups.
Oh definitely the role and gender assignment is so antiquated. I hope that men understand they have a larger purpose in life than just being necessary producers and women can have meaningful lives without being wives and mothers. It's up to us to change the stereotypes and I think lots of us are making progress
Maybe spend more time on developing your own interests and compassion for other people. The more you become a whole person, the more this fairy tale will seem possible.
You do realize that's not true, right? That's part of the whole 'male loneliness epidemic' thing. Women want men to be want-able because we don't need them. We are paying our bills, keeping the roof over our heads, and feeding ourselves. Men need to bring more to the table then 'providing'. Emotional maturity, kindness, compassion, be an interesting person to talk to, be able to communicate. Stuff like that.
Eh this seems to cut both ways. Either side still has those that see the other as a product/producer. Sadly its in the younger crowd that ya see that which fucks up alot of em as they arent mature by any means to stand a chance if they dont have good influences within reach.
"Male Toxicity" will be solved better when we realize it's not just men enforcing it. Men want to partner with women, and you seem to have no idea how common these experiences are. I've been the emotionally mature one who set up lines of communication and safe spaces in my relationships, and many of the women were fucking brutal. One said she thought she'd change my mind from a hard limit she knew.
It doesn't take many times to learn. For some reason, the entire thing is always put on men.
My ex was mad because I "wouldn't let him keep me home." What the fuck? I will not be beholden to that shit. I don't need my bf, I WANT him, and he is great with that. Keep your own bank accounts, ladies.
In my experience most women don't bother to get to know you if you're not immediately outwardly interesting and the assertive one who takes the lead on everything. They have too many men to sift through and don't bother with the ones who aren't instantly obviously worthwhile.
If you notice that red flags flock to you, it might be worth questioning if you are holding up a metaphorical "red flags wanted" sign. For example when I tried dating apps, I got a lot of people interested in me for my appearance because thats what the apps advertise most, but I'm not interested in someone whose mostly interested in my appearance, so it seemed like all red flags. But if I use a less flattering picture but a more personal bio, I get different results. How can you best advertise..
the traits that you actually want a partner to be attracted to? If it's personality, dating apps are maybe not the way to go. (They suck in general imo) If you want partners that don't expect assertiveness in you, maybe look for ones that are assertive themselves? Finding your type of people makes a big difference in long term success rates.
Sounds like you're just surrounded by a lot of low quality people and have started getting jaded that everyone is like that. They aren't. Rather than shutting yourself off in protection, just go slow and deliberate in your search for decent people. They are out there and also want to be found.
That's what I'm doing, and I'm at the point where it's too much work and I have other things to put effort towards. It's pushing me to the point of considering moving to another part of the country.
For some it's like that. I'd say for most it's because they simply don't develop those sides of themselves and have been conditioned by capitalism to be as useful and productive as possible. That's all they have to offer.
When I was dating I always went dutch and some guys got SUPER mad about it. I was actually surprised, I thought guys would like it. Some did, some were clearly uncomfortable but went along, and some absolutely hated it. At least it was a good way to identify red flags.
You might want to have a chat with your sisters about this topic, and then get everyone on-side with a single understanding of "no means no" because this "no means no, unless I want to be pursued" bullshit is creating more problems like this.
Unless you want to accidentally assault someone, you have to respect no means no. It doesn't matter what the other person means by it. You heard no, you have to listen. It's basically the only way to teach that type of person that if they mean yes, they shouldn't say no. EVERYONE should be respecting "no" at this point.
This is the problem: literally every man I know in the dating game abides this. Then there are the women that turn them down, and then get upset because the guy didn't pursue them.
When you find those, run. That's it. They aren't worth the drama and even if you got in a relationship with one of them, it would be toxic. Don't condemn the good ones because the broken ones exist.
I don't, but the male loneliness epidemic has one of many roots in that.
Those women exist, and in DROVES.
Men have must deal with the effects of toxic masculinity, and it's important for everyone. At first it was difficult, but those conversations are happening today. Women have to deal with the same kind of toxicity from women, and the worst part about that is when they do, they're automatically called a "pick me" or some other nonsense, and the conversation effectively shuts down.
drakionx
It's been years and this is the first time I've seen a (the?) Frame of them embracing
txtbookpisces
I feel like this took far too many years to evolve to this point.
DippinDerps
I could use a bit of that right now. Been out of work since February. Not going back until July. Kidney issues and severe sleep apnea. Medical bills piling up isn't fun x.x
P0sit1veTh0ughts
A good spooning can melt away your problems.
MoxieMonster
Car insurance was this mornings bed thought
ISeeAlmostEverything
We guys like that. It's lovely.
DrasticBastard
I to like to be the little spoon.
darthdaddyyy
I am seen.
GreenMnM
This.
trekkiedane
Aww.
Nadoben
Meilleurs moyens de partager les peines dans un couple
kleinkaasje
Can we do a reverse of this meme
HeadJamistan
Go for it.
FullMetalJackass
This is bEautiful
BobbyDeanWillicker
Ha, ha ha ha, haaaaaaaa oh god
ILikeRespondingWithWillSmithGifs
Right to couples therapy folder,, thank you.
picofemtomicro
You guys are thinking?
adiving
Yes, at the moment it's mostly "please stop sneezing"
egoAristippos
Or this …
datphone777365
Lmao, dark.
SomethingOtherThanMyRealName
*worrying if I'll be a good father, a good husband, if I'm good enough, if I'll be able to support my family, if I'll keep my job, if...(spoon)...it's...gonna be ok.
AlmostAandOx3
Aksuuuh
This one hurts me.
BillHubbard
lol, medical bills.... laughs in European
MrWobblyHead
Laughs in every developed country in the world and some developing countries.
ilovebigmutts
Must be nice to place all the responsibilities on your partner.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
It's a really bad idea, unless you're actually disabled or something and can't do them. What happens if your partner dies or becomes too ill to do it or something? And of course there's divorce. All the able-bodied adults in the household should be taking on some of the responsibilities. That includes adult children living with parents, too.
thelategirl
Yep definitely. I'm physically disabled, to the point of not being able to work. But my girlfriend has never had any real drive to even try and work low paid jobs, let alone earn the money required to provide for her child. So even now I feel I have no choice but to try and find a way of making money myself. Otherwise I fear once her parents are dead and no longer there to support them, they'll just end up homeless.
becauseurwrong
I mean, so is she. It seems nice on the surface but I've found imbalanced memes like this are usually made by men who've never lived with a partner and believe the very very old "men are responsible for all bills while doing the worst hell jobs" jargon, or made by delusional men who live with a woman who brings in half the income AND is left with all the housework/childcare AND emotional labor thanks to the dude's lazy ass.
iktome99
This definitely gave me vibes of the toxic guy always posting "when you work all day and your bitch of a gf/wife doesn't treat you right"
realdal67
Yes women never worry about this things
OppaGangnamPyle
Women worry about these things as well as a million other things for no particular reason yes
thelategirl
Yes, but I doubt this post is about couples in an equal relationship.
It is still common for men to be the sole or main "bread winner" in the relationship, and not necessarily out of choice.
Many men, not just old ones, were taught from a young age that they must be the provider in a family, and many find they have no choice when the woman theyre with don't have the same drive to build a career.
This is one of the main reasons why more men commit suicide than women.
realdal67
That must be why they commit more family annihilations too.
raineryuzaki
Didn’t you know that blokes doing the bare minimum should be commended?
thelategirl
Is it the bare minimum if the man is the only one working and focusing on these things though?
If I had a man who provided for me I'd certainly be commending him.
Because tbh, the reason this post is so relateable to so many men is because so many are still in a position where they feel they have no choice but to be the sole provider. And the stress of that leads to something like 4 times as many men committing suicide than women.
raineryuzaki
All responsible adults should be thinking about their financial status.
MoonMoon89
"He's probably thinking of some embarrassing thing he said seven years ago."
TakuanSoho
p3pp3rs
Warrants the same response
BrokenTimeMachine
Cute Theater employee: "Enjoy the movie!!!"
Me: "YoU ToO!"
SploogeMcDuck316
It's worse when you realize mid sentence and try to course correct but it's too late and you just end up muttering something incoherent.
QuitLookinAtMineAim
Oh this too. And also 17 years ago.
HerrHat
try 27 years.
IainG101
Was gonna say, I wish I was limited to the last 7 years; pretty sure there's stuff 2 decades old coming back to haunt me...
Leonon
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
Thesaya
I think this is the only version of this I have ever upvoted.
Allusernamesaretakensoichoosethis
Found the woman!
Thesaya
Yes, I'm a woman. Based on your reaction, I guess not finding memes based on unhealthy relationships funny is a bad thing to you?
Allusernamesaretakensoichoosethis
No, don't take it too seriously. I love you for who you are, just trying to lighten the mood in this sometimes miserable world... Aiming for healthy relationships is a good thing. Let's all keep doing that!
Thesaya
Well, maybe don't try to lighten the mood by implying the person you are replying to don't have a sense of humour next time, eh? ;)
miked854
"Finally."
magila
The English language is a demanding mistress.
Fruc
**Finale
miked854
And we're done here.
OnyxTurret
Nope. Finely. As in finely done or done finely. +1
hereyouare
this has finally been finely done...
stukajr
Finely!
wambu
Did we discover who's taking pictures of them in their bedroom?
pasthelod
it's for their OnlyFans ... it's ok. their kind neighbor set it up for them and didn't even bother them when they were at home, installed the camera during office hours. lovely community!
Hurro
Oh, to be wanted, rather than needed.
Chief1410
Being needed is fine, it's the "needing" and not receiving that hurts.
ILikeRespondingWithWillSmithGifs
I asked my daughter’s mother (not together) at the end of our relationship, did you ever even want me or did you just need me? She replied, “I didn’t even need you!” I guess getting her out of her motel and into an apartment, getting her glasses, getting her mom a car, getting us an SUV, and keeping both mine and her moms homes paid during the pandemic was nothing.. now I’m a single father and honestly. It got better.
Allusernamesaretakensoichoosethis
We both want and need you though. And indeed glad you're in a better place now.
mouseasw
💜 I'm so sorry, that's brutal
kittykat
My ex said that to me not long ago. I don't think they mean it. I think it is a way of inflicting pain when someone doesn't know how to clearly express themselves. Or they were just being massive assholes!
RickySpanishhhhh
What a horrible, manipulative creature. My ex was much the same way and I thank whatever deity may be out there that we didn’t have any children.
Hurro
Sorry to hear that. I'm glad you're in a better space.
FabergeBurrito
My pastor always said, "Men want to feel needed & women need to feel wanted". While this is true, I believe both genders feel both needs & wants.
Hoptimonium
Sigh, I know pastors mean well but that dude was a bit sexist and out of touch. Men definitely want to be wanted too
sleepwellfriend
I like the feeling of being needed, but like emotionally. It's more dramatic & perhaps a therapist would scoff & ask me to be more healthy, but building something special with someone for years to the point that the idea of losing them is so devastating that you can only phrase it as *needing* them, not simply wanting them. That makes sense to me
tallyhoho
I think I would prefer being wanted over being needed. Need means you have to be there, want means you are choosing to be there
IrrelevantHandle
Being needed is a dark beast because you can never truly be sure that you are wanted.
HIVp0sit1ve69
beeeeeeerkaaaaa
You'd be surprised how many men get mad they're wanted but not needed. My thought is perhaps they don't like that because it changes the power dynamic.
Paireon
Not surprised but in this case that was obviously a lie so irrelevant.
rbudrick
Or maybe it's just human to want both. Being told I shouldn't want both is some sick shit, tbh.
cmsport2
Yeah, I thought wanting and loving my ex was enough. I didn't strictly need him. I made enough money for both of us and was healthy enough not to need need someone's help. Wanting him for him was apparently not enough.
datphone777365
Sometimes people wont want you as much as you want them, thats what happens when you deal with individuals. It sucks but its also not good to try and force it either.
Hurro
I know mine is not a catch all statement but I don't really agree with your second one. Not every man needs to be in the power seat.
ThatLoserTheFourth
They didn't say all men were that way, it was my understanding they were talking about a very specific type of man
datphone777365
Its not even a specific type of "man" women use influence and fear to force their will on others. Thats likely why they are getting downvoted. Blaming half of those responsible isnt cutting it with folks anymore, many have seen that its a human on human issue not just a sex/gender issue. If you have any doubts look at maga women for a blunt example.
datphone777365
Or cus society tells men if they arent needed they have no worth? When your existence is boiled down to "what have you done for me lately" instead who you are as a sentient being its bound to fuck alot of em up. Same way being told how frail and precious fucked up alot women. We need to raise people not commodities and commodifiers.
Spidermonkey969696
You are very right. I think we also need to better encourage those (of every gender) who have been societally brainwashed to put in the work to unbrainwash themselves as much as possible. We're not stuck with the dumb shit taught to us for life. Change takes energy, but dissatisfaction is a great motivator.
ThatLoserTheFourth
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, there absolutely are a lot of men like that. I thought it was pretty clear you were talking about a specific kind of man. The whole "traditional lifestyle" deal is very against women having careers or even an education
datphone777365
The dvs are likely cus it seems to ignore how society as a whole not just some men are the cause for that sort of thinking. Just look to maga for the women who push those same ideals and think over why they benefit. In the end it all boils down to class war, if you have enough resources at hand it doesnt matter what your fiddly bits are. Some use raw force others use subversion and manipulation.
MrsMericulous
Yes it's ultimately a class war, but if you think women and people of color won't end up on the bottom of every caste, you aren't paying attention to history. The fiddly bits and melanin will matter, because that's part of how facism works.
datphone777365
Looking at history we see plenty of examples of women in the upper echelons of the structure doing their best to keep other women down, same goes for colorism with poc communities. Dunno why youd take such a weird assumption in thinking im not aware of any of that.
frigidmagi2
A lot of us were raise with the expectation that if you're not needed, then you're worthless. That doesn't excuse bad behavior but put it in that context. Imagine being told oh you're worthless I just keep you around for amusement and how does that make you feel?
tallyhoho
I think that's how women have been viewed for most of history. Be pretty, be quiet, be submissive
datphone777365
Yep, but dont overlook those who saw how to exploit that image. The "patriarchy" was held up equally by both men and women because they wanted to exploit that system for their own gain, if you want modern examples for women look to maga women or the "sparkle sparkle" ladies. If ya want older look to the rich matriarchs that helped raised not just the boys but the girls that would propagate the same system later on. It boils down to class warfare/stratified society if you look at the big picture.
tallyhoho
I'm not sure you're 100% correct as women have fought pretty hard for the same legal rights that men have held and unfortunately they are still fighting for many of those rights today. Of course there are outliers but they are a minority, not majority. As seen at the ballot box whenever legal abortion has been put on the agenda, despite right wing legislators. This is very much a war of right wing conservatives vs the rest of the society
frigidmagi2
Sure and that's wrong but women were also told that they were important as mothers and wives. That doesn't excuse the very real oppression most women suffered or the oppression that many women suffer.
it's different for the case of men. Not worse just different where we're told if you're not needed you are worthless. Whereas a woman who wasn't needed could still have value as a wife or a mother. A man is told he has no intrinsic value has a husband or a father. It's toxic for both groups.
tallyhoho
Oh definitely the role and gender assignment is so antiquated. I hope that men understand they have a larger purpose in life than just being necessary producers and women can have meaningful lives without being wives and mothers. It's up to us to change the stereotypes and I think lots of us are making progress
dashers
It's a myth I tell you. Stupid fary tales of desire. Only seems to apply to women 😠
dashers
Imgur: hundreds of upvotes on comment A. Dozens of downvoted on comment B agreeing and sympathising with comment A. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
elusivekarma
Maybe spend more time on developing your own interests and compassion for other people. The more you become a whole person, the more this fairy tale will seem possible.
awkwardbeautiful
You do realize that's not true, right? That's part of the whole 'male loneliness epidemic' thing. Women want men to be want-able because we don't need them. We are paying our bills, keeping the roof over our heads, and feeding ourselves. Men need to bring more to the table then 'providing'. Emotional maturity, kindness, compassion, be an interesting person to talk to, be able to communicate. Stuff like that.
datphone777365
Eh this seems to cut both ways. Either side still has those that see the other as a product/producer. Sadly its in the younger crowd that ya see that which fucks up alot of em as they arent mature by any means to stand a chance if they dont have good influences within reach.
Emiloo74
MellowMeeseeks
Amen
Foxsayy
"Male Toxicity" will be solved better when we realize it's not just men enforcing it. Men want to partner with women, and you seem to have no idea how common these experiences are. I've been the emotionally mature one who set up lines of communication and safe spaces in my relationships, and many of the women were fucking brutal. One said she thought she'd change my mind from a hard limit she knew.
It doesn't take many times to learn. For some reason, the entire thing is always put on men.
KawaiiInari
My ex was mad because I "wouldn't let him keep me home." What the fuck? I will not be beholden to that shit. I don't need my bf, I WANT him, and he is great with that. Keep your own bank accounts, ladies.
kerms
In my experience most women don't bother to get to know you if you're not immediately outwardly interesting and the assertive one who takes the lead on everything. They have too many men to sift through and don't bother with the ones who aren't instantly obviously worthwhile.
Spidermonkey969696
If you notice that red flags flock to you, it might be worth questioning if you are holding up a metaphorical "red flags wanted" sign. For example when I tried dating apps, I got a lot of people interested in me for my appearance because thats what the apps advertise most, but I'm not interested in someone whose mostly interested in my appearance, so it seemed like all red flags. But if I use a less flattering picture but a more personal bio, I get different results. How can you best advertise..
Spidermonkey969696
the traits that you actually want a partner to be attracted to? If it's personality, dating apps are maybe not the way to go. (They suck in general imo) If you want partners that don't expect assertiveness in you, maybe look for ones that are assertive themselves? Finding your type of people makes a big difference in long term success rates.
elusivekarma
Sounds like you're just surrounded by a lot of low quality people and have started getting jaded that everyone is like that. They aren't. Rather than shutting yourself off in protection, just go slow and deliberate in your search for decent people. They are out there and also want to be found.
kerms
That's what I'm doing, and I'm at the point where it's too much work and I have other things to put effort towards. It's pushing me to the point of considering moving to another part of the country.
beeeeeeerkaaaaa
Some are so very angry we don't need them. I think because it changes the power dynamic. They want subservient, not equal.
kerms
For some it's like that. I'd say for most it's because they simply don't develop those sides of themselves and have been conditioned by capitalism to be as useful and productive as possible. That's all they have to offer.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
When I was dating I always went dutch and some guys got SUPER mad about it. I was actually surprised, I thought guys would like it. Some did, some were clearly uncomfortable but went along, and some absolutely hated it. At least it was a good way to identify red flags.
beeeeeeerkaaaaa
Not my opinion but I've seen some women say men say something about how much dinner was to try to guilt them into paying it back via ya know...
kmikl
You might want to have a chat with your sisters about this topic, and then get everyone on-side with a single understanding of "no means no" because this "no means no, unless I want to be pursued" bullshit is creating more problems like this.
tallyhoho
Who is it a problem for? Men that don't understand no means no? It's pretty straight forward in my opinion, if a woman says no leave her alone
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Unless you want to accidentally assault someone, you have to respect no means no. It doesn't matter what the other person means by it. You heard no, you have to listen. It's basically the only way to teach that type of person that if they mean yes, they shouldn't say no. EVERYONE should be respecting "no" at this point.
kmikl
This is the problem: literally every man I know in the dating game abides this. Then there are the women that turn them down, and then get upset because the guy didn't pursue them.
It's an issue, which is why I mentioned it.
elusivekarma
When you find those, run. That's it. They aren't worth the drama and even if you got in a relationship with one of them, it would be toxic. Don't condemn the good ones because the broken ones exist.
datphone777365
That last bit cuts both ways, i got lucky early on but man does the dating "game" see fucked up. Its damn near a dark forest scenario.
kmikl
I don't, but the male loneliness epidemic has one of many roots in that.
Those women exist, and in DROVES.
Men have must deal with the effects of toxic masculinity, and it's important for everyone. At first it was difficult, but those conversations are happening today. Women have to deal with the same kind of toxicity from women, and the worst part about that is when they do, they're automatically called a "pick me" or some other nonsense, and the conversation effectively shuts down.