TheGhostofElizabethShue
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If you're not really following the news Jamal Khashoggi was a Washinton Post columnist, a permanent resident in the United States and father to two American children. If that sounds like a needlessly complicated way to describe a person, you're not wrong, but the fact he's "not a citizen" seems relevant to some.
A little over two weeks ago, with his fiancée waiting outside, Khashoggi walked into the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul in order to obtain a document that proved he was divorced. He never walked out. The explanation for his disappearance has been a long road, but to sum up where we're at today it seems he was captured by a 15 man team of Saudi officials, beaten, tortured, killed and dismembered inside the consulate.
Two days ago the Washington Post published his last column, it is for this sort of thing he was murdered: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/jamal-khashoggi-what-the-arab-world-needs-most-is-free-expression/2018/10/17/adfc8c44-d21d-11e8-8c22-fa2ef74bd6d6_story.html
If you'd like to read more about his disappearance this article goes into arguably too much detail: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/world/europe/turkey-saudi-khashoggi-dismember.html
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FP EDIT: Glad to see this got some traction. Today it seems some conservatives are trying to smear Khashoggi by claiming he was working with everyone from the Muslim Brotherhood to Osama Bin Laden. You may even see some people buying it in the comments. https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/conservatives-mount-a-whisper-campaign-smearing-khashoggi-in-defense-of-trump/2018/10/18/feb92bd0-d306-11e8-b2d2-f397227b43f0_story.html
WiqidBritt
Don't forget to check out WWE Crown Jewel Live from Saudi Arabia November 2nd!...
SemperFiZero
That's terrifying.
nabacular
The answer is clear. We need to 1. invade Saudi Arabia topple their government, install our own democracy. 2. ??? 3. Profit!
Othernate
Unfortunately, going off our previous track record we'd somehow install someone even worse just to get slightly cheaper oil.
sharxbyte
dismembered then killed according to reports... https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-khashoggi-829291552
nsakic
They cut off his limbs while he was still alive, only turning up music to drown out his screams.
Rex83ll4t0r
I wonder what song was being played?
KartFnocker
Idrinkforevil
Trump is still a cunt.
CaffeineManic
Seems ill-advised to enter the consulate of a repressive government inside another country that's also repressive.
DavidELD
The house of Saud doing what the house of Saud do. Feudal Monarchists resorting to what they know best.
ClemFundango
Its true. The Saudi's are truly filth.
K13PTo
From 2016 --> https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-bans-khashoggi-writing-media-appearances-after-trump-remarks-1801958864
smoothaseggs
AddNapalm
badmusicpuns
Oh yeah, that's gonna do it
TwoFlower68
You're right. Indignation doesn't work, it's better to shrug in world-weary resignation 'cause what else can you do /s
purgethefilthyheretics
The world is saved, lets all go home.
Roehcai
Sometimes, humans can be pretty awful. :c
breguet
I’m pretty sure that there will be no loose ends, all of these 15 suspects will be murdered by gov.
InappropriateAbeLincoln
Trumpworld - Don't want to hear about sexual assault, but trip over themselves to listen and give all the time in the world to the Saudis.
railheater
Kushner gave MBS names from classified info. MBS used it to start the purge. Khashoggi had info on Trump-Kushner-Saudis. Hello
PaintedSlate
Wait, what happened? Asking for a friend.
InappropriateAbeLincoln
I'm asking for that same friend.
mardukkur
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575395/Saudi-crown-prince-brags-Jared-Kushner-handed-U-S-intelligence.html Daily Fail though so...
railheater
Well noted in National and International news how MBS imprisoned and tortured many wealthy Saudis and extorted billions from them.
railheater
At least one death was reported. Khashoggi death was not intended to be disclosed . They at first said he walked out......
mardukkur
Yes, that's all well reported. The story of Kushner's involvement hasn't seen any further reporting though. Plausible but I don't trust DM.
railheater
Sometimes you have to connect the dots. Follow the Qatar blockade. Kushner involved. Gets funds for failing real estate from Qatar. Blockade
CrypticRuin
From a place where drawing a picture (of Muhammad) makes your OWN family want to murder you. Not surprised.
ClemFundango
Trump and Jared "I want to see you some fucking amway" Kushner's besties.
EliteSpork
But our president takes their side anyways.
onlyhalfghost
As have most of your past presidents, this isn't something new to El Cheeto.
ClemFundango
No, but previous admins haven't looked the other way while they murdered american journalists (I know he wasn't a citizen)
ItachiGG
Wait, so why did 15 people savagely murder this man?
TheGhostofElizabethShue
You'd have to ask them. Better hurry up though, a few days ago one was killed in a car crash.
MFDork
Honestly the best thing for the world would be for the Saudi’s oil reserves to run dry. Adios House of Saud. So long Wahhabism.
boshbashbish
Agreed.
fitlex
I dunno, the top dogs would just go chill with their trillions in Monaco while their country collapses into Isis 2: Electric Boogaloo
JustAnotherPOG
I don't think that would really fix anything. I think it would just create more instability in the Middle East (which is saying a lot).
killbillsexwife
I’m having a panic attack reading this because I know Trump will do nothing and it’s his weak leadership his utter corrupt gutless
killbillsexwife
Traitor to the US soul has emboldened our enemies and they are laughing in our face.
SeanBeanDiesAlot
Lets say Saudi Arabia is telling the truth (I doubt it) but that he died by ACCIDENT (I also highly doubt that) why not just report it? 1/?
SeanBeanDiesAlot
Even if they killed him they could make it look like an accident. Instead they literally dismembered the man and took him out in pieces 2/3
SeanBeanDiesAlot
This regime is barbarism incarnate and they need to held accountable for their actions in this political assassination 3/3
kirbynomnoms
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/world/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-dead-saudi-arabia.html
kirbynomnoms
They said that it was an accident but they still felt the need to dismember him. Because apparently that makes sense /s
GallantCenturionSpy
I can’t upvote you enough. Most believe the reporter was tortured/killed for Muslim Brotherhood intel. The Sauds slow crawl to modernism
GallantCenturionSpy
Has now reverted back to medievalism.
61118skj
We have literally let Saudi Arabia get away with murder since 9/11. We keep sucking on their oil tit.
VernonLamb
What's the difference between a permanent resident and a citizen? Sounds like he was an American to me.
TheGhostofElizabethShue
He had a green card if that explains it. Can stay and work forever, but can't vote, I think.
MishiMoshiSquishyToesies
Yes, and they have a different passport. But that's the only difference. They are considered American in every other way. These guys killed
MishiMoshiSquishyToesies
an American journalist, there should be more outrage over that.
CrunchyPants
Permanent resident is an immigration status. Even individuals who have resided in the country for years can be considered non (1/2)
CrunchyPants
Permanent residents. (They'd be visa holders with their country of origin as their residence despite years in us.) (2/2)
kirbynomnoms
The Saudi cover story is so bad it is almost funny. Because when someone dies in a fistfight the logical thing to do is dismember them
kirbynomnoms
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/world/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-dead-saudi-arabia.html
pennypoohbear
And nothing will happen to the people that murdered him. They know the US will do nothing. Trump has made us a laughing stock
Sindji
No loose ends...pretty sure they'll be taken care of...except the "doctor" of course
Slamtastik
I wouldn't say that, one of the 15 has already been blamed for the incident, then he died in a mysterious car crash days later.
Doumdidoum
"Put earphones and listen to music" said the attending doc when they were chopping his fingers one by one.
azazyel
"It's in Turkey, and it's not a citizen, as I understand it," Not He, IT
QuantumPhysical
Probably referring to the situation rather than the person involved.
failsafe
How can a situation be a citizen?
TheGhostofElizabethShue
I don't like playing language police with a guy that can barely talk. Plenty of shit to take issue with w/out trying to decode his dementia.
beaubrent
The USA will do nothing because Trump hates reporters and loves dictators.
muscarinenya
To be fair EU is the first to blame here, we love dictators and selling weapons too until they're inconvenient like with Libya
bad1080
and selling weapons
TossABabyYodaToYourWitcher
I read that Trump and his cronies are doing a smear campaign on him to make him seem like the bad guy
spookyS
There are talks about audio/video evidence, did anyone see those?
Gandalfsuglybrother
I think that's something I'd want somebody to see who needs to. Zero interest in seeing it myself.
Doumdidoum
Turkey is sitting on it to make the Saudis squirm. They seed some details every other day. I don't know if true or not, but it's plausible
baconmassacre
Man same I’m waiting for the recordings to get on bestgore.
Inarticulated
You're all kinds of fucked up, dude..
blwhiten
What.
baconmassacre
You should see the indifference in other countries. People can literally stand around IN PUBLIC while someone stabs you in broad daylight.
SuperbBackhand
Do... do you need a therapist? Or is that just some trivia knowledge that you have?
baconmassacre
The human body is extraordinary. You would be surprised what people go through in the world and STILL survive.
TobySomething
Murder audio hasn't been released publicly. Saudi Arabia claimed he left, but couldn't provide any video evidence despite all their cameras.
Redraz2021
They claim that their cameras don't store any recordings.
TobySomething
I mean, that's ridiculous and would be hilarious if it weren't also sad.
spookyS
So we are taking Turkey's word on this?
TobySomething
No, first we observing that a journalist who believed his life was threatened went into an embassy and never came out. Then we observe 1/?
TobySomething
That the country who controls that embassy produced no evidence to corroborate the claim that he left despite having tons of cameras. 2/?
TobySomething
Then we take note that Turkey says it has evidence of his murder - and while I agree the government is not good, they might still 3/?
KartFnocker
really fucked up story. Reportedly they started taking him apart while he was still alive, and there's a recording
circlebreaker
One of that crew are already dead; "car accident".
boshbashbish
This is horrific. Those evil fucks.
almightyblob
No, they apparently strangled him first and took him apart when dead. Which still is fucking terrible.
Inarticulated
You sure? Seems like the wrong order to interrogate someone :S
Theman098
Its funny that you think it was an interrogation.
SuperIncoherentRantingMan
Was he dead or just unconscious?
KartFnocker
Lotta reports (from a Turkish source originally) that he was alive still, but everything is unconfirmed right now
sharxbyte
it apparently took 7 minutes for him to die.
ZIgnorantProdigy
I hate the fact that this actually makes me feel better. A sentence like that should never provide comfort. Absolutely terrible
aCartographer
I'm sceptical on all this, saudi arabia has been giving more rights to women recently, while turkey is run by a religious dictator
Saunter
You should look into Saudi Arabia...they make great "liberals" but the underside is scary as hell
baldm0mma
I have a feeling giving women the right to drive was for show.
whatupcorgibutt
They can drive and go to sports games now I wouldn’t call that a humanitarian effort as much as a pr stunt
JebusPrisms
I mean, that's like saying "I trust the South because slavery is abolished" pretty sure that didn't stop Jim Crow ..
ilovecake
You’re skeptical? Just because Saudi Arabia is letting women finally drive in 2018 doesn’t mean they’re ok
aCartographer
Going different way from strict religious rules is a step for better, but goes against their agenda who want strict religious rules (erdogan
KartFnocker
well, a few more rights to women doesn't change what a guy like MbS can do. But yes, I don't trust Erdogan one bit either
makeiteasykeepitsleazy
It’s terrifying. I don’t think they meant to leak this so it wasn’t to make him a lesson, they didn’t want info so it wasn’t to interrogate
ManannanMacLir
Link?
makeiteasykeepitsleazy
Him, they just hacked him alive with a bone-saw for seven minutes out of abject cruelty?!
purgethefilthyheretics
Link?
Birdman2112
That’s fucked up!!
Pokegeologist
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it seen as abhorrent to dismember or desecrate a body in Islam?
Halzjones
He’s used to be close with the royal family. They got pissed. Honestly believe they just wanted him to feel pain for “betraying” them.
Username1010101
This is Saudi Arabia we're talking about.
LumpWithaLeafHat
I don't know. I think they knew it would get out. It's too blatant. I think Saudi Arabia wanted to test what they could get away with.
purgethefilthyheretics
Yeah, if they really did want to keep it secret it wouldn't have been recorded. Probably released intentionally to scare future dissidents.
imblackityblackyall
No, I think that wasn't their intention. They are now actively trying to drown out this news in SA with tweets in support of Al Saud
uitSCHOT
The story I heard was that the guy recorded it himself on his smart watch, jhst in case anything went down. No idea how that got out tho...
makeiteasykeepitsleazy
But didn’t the Turks record it? I thought they bugged the consulate or some such.
SomePeopleSayThatCucumbersTasteBetterPickled
The Crown Prince probably told them to record it because he wanted proof they did what he told them to do.
CorrugatedUrethra1995
Neither the Saudis or Turks seem trustworthy in this but I'm gonna go with the Turks because the almost certainly have bugged that consulate
OperationRustysBlanket
It would seem unprofessional not to
Sheepyhead
You'd think if the Saudis had tangible evidence he left alive, they'd have shared it by now right?
shimmernshine
They now admit that he's dead, after an 'altercation'
jofo97
I read that he set his smart watch to recording audio, and left his phone with his girlfriend outside. That recorded his torture and death.
intothewilde
That...is that possible? Would that work? The distance between watch and phone? I mean...that'd be pretty neat...
FunmonkeyCT
That was debunked for 1 million reasons... Realistically maybe just four or five...
FunmonkeyCT
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/13/middleeast/khashoggi-apple-watch-analysis-intl/index.html
Odiumic
The Turks would have happily killed the journo if it suited their needs but in this case it suits their needs just fine to use the incident-
Doumdidoum
I only found one journalist allegedly killed by Turkey gov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_Shim
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Odiumic
I’m saying that if he roles were flipped and it was a Turkish Journo that was friendly with the Saudis that was causing problems for-
Odiumic
-Erdogan that he would happily have the journalist arrested/disappeared/killed. Erdogan doesn’t support free press, he supports-
Odiumic
-screwing with Saudi Arabia to further his own goals.
davidrzr
He is getting to the point that Erdogan has suppressed the press and free speech as well.
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RalphtheMagnif
It's turkey, which has a Totalitarian "Democratically Elected" President. If they have "Disappeared" they are certainly dead
MaximusUltima
Some are disappeared, which means they’re probably dead.
aCartographer
Arrest 1000, kill 1 in the consulate you dislike, profit
Odiumic
-as an opportunity to discredit the Saudis. Turkey would very much like to supplant Saudi Arabia as the main power in the region so they’re-
Odiumic
-playing this while Kashoggi thing for all possibly can in order to make the Saudis look bad.
aerodynamit3
Too bad it'll never work like they want. So long as Saudi Arabia has all that oil.
etcnotect
Ottoman empire 2.0 here we come
Birdman2112
And the orange one is taking the Saudi’s side.
WhatzitTooya
He got a deal with them to keep the oil price stable by increasing output while he cranks up the sanctions to Iran.
Hayashima
SoberAndBored
MONEY
Stagracker
And Justin Trudeau said China's dictatorship was admirable because it helped their economy. All politicians are awful sadly :/
OlderWiser
What we deserve is the US totally cut ties with Saudi Arabia. $10 - $15 per gallon gas prices and the Middle East disintegrate. Worth it.
IHateApostrophes
I wonder if we're at one of the critical junctures in American history when one party disintegrates and the other polarizes into two parties
Othernate
It'd be nice, but I also just saw an ad claiming my local governor candidate had "radical liberal ideas like healthcare" sooo....
Dontgotolawschool
We still don't know what happened, and SA is a strategic ally in the region vs Iran, and the Turks have an interest in disrupting that.
GlassSword
"Let me just alienate an entire country because their leaders may or may not have been involved in an incident without any evidence so far".
ThatsMySecretCapImAlwaysHorny
Of course, he was a journalist, "enemies of the people" in his words.
Shendorion
"This is just another case of 'guilty until proven innocent,' says the guy who chants, "LOCK HER UP!" at his cult gatherings.
youlovemeyouhateme
https://imgur.com/SNEsfef.jpg
LordDevi
No he is not you fuck twad. Trump has released the hounds to gather Intel, promising retribution. He would never pull a Hillary like that.
UnpopularOpinionPuffinPersonified
Trump: "I'll wait until the facts are in before picking sides." Liberals: "TRUMP IS SIDING WITH THE SAUDIS!"
niftycabbage
No shit brick. He said it was likely ‘rogue killers’ who dissected Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate. What a joke
Othernate
We have the facts, he wants different facts that mean he doesn't have to stop getting saudi money.
ClemFundango
Well, when you're a habitual liar, a tax cheat, a traitor, a 3 time draft dodger and you sell the White House, journos aren't your friend.
OwenRawk
#orangemanbad
lurch2014
If orangeman = bad then enrage()
MFDork
Wait you’re telling me a guy with 8 bankruptcies, a penchant for bullying, and no leadership qualities is bad? *shock*
OwenRawk
I'd really like to sit down with you and explain why your bias is misplaced. This isn't the platform, with a limit of 140 characters.
ArchangelArtist
Surprised? The wahabists that rule the oil rules over the US.
ilovecake
Well, Saudi Arabia did just transfer over $100 million to the US, so of course he’s taking their side
Blake242
well the US and UK have had a huge arms deal going with them for a long time. someone has to bring in the blood money :(
ClemFundango
Or you know, we could just drop chemical weapons on Saudi Arabia and be done with those vermin. No different than killing rats.
goatswhostareatmen
not only the usa and uk. the country i live in extended arms export to saudi arabia this year again. it's a structural problem.
frake
Those weapons we sell them are meant to murder people anyway.
Refridgerate
Last I heard he said there would be consequences once the investigation concluded as such. But to be fair his word isn’t worth a lot
ClemFundango
And he also said "lets hear what they have to say" giving them a few days to frame some people.
ThatsMySecretCapImAlwaysHorny
One of the 15 has already "died" in a car accident
Gandalfsuglybrother
Follow the money. Always follow the money.
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GallantCenturionSpy
Short-sighted opinion. If the US sells Saudi arms then we have more control because of parts & tech support. Better US control than not.
KartFnocker
I mean, that's easy at this point. We need someone to DO something about it once the money has been followed
frake
Freud would say it's all about sex first, so follow the hookers that pee'd on the bed Obama's once slept in.
MenaceToSobriety
Not according to NPR: "President Trump says he believes missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi is dead, telling the New York Times (1/3)
MobileUserGundam
... and? Believing he's dead and taking Saudi Arabia's side are not mutually exclusive.
MenaceToSobriety
From another comment: [...] If Saudi Arabia is responsible, the consequences will be 'very severe,' he told the Times." (3/3)
MobileUserGundam
... right. And denying that Saudi Arabia is responsible is taking their side.
MenaceToSobriety
You see "If Saudi Arabia is responsible" as a denial that Saudi Arabia is responsible, rather than acknowledging the possibility?
MenaceToSobriety
that his judgment is based on intelligence reports 'coming from every side.' (2/3)
MenaceToSobriety
If Saudi Arabia is responsible, the consequences will be 'very severe,' he told the Times." (3/3)
TrikStari
It's almost as if we need to not jump to conclusions because global politics is ridiculously complex.
ClemFundango
And then he said "lets give the Saudi's a few days to come up with a plausible explanation".
omnicorpse
They are testing out the excuses. "He left the place 100% alive out the back" into "well what about we did happen to kill him by accident"
MobileUserGundam
Right. It's going "if I'm not punishing them, then they didn't do anything. Because if they had, I would've punished them."