PersonalityFire
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Aug 22, 2017 3:39 PM
PersonalityFire
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JMoneyOL71
America certainly had a hand in the late 1900s...the major disruption was Sykes Picot...the Brits/French carved up the Mid East for funsies
the4getful
More history in this post than the History channel, damn that channel is sh*t now
Thor046
Why do people choose such a terrible medium for passing on info
SherlockBROmes
I'm glad Iran into this...
ruint
Mossadegh took the power to the have-nots...
FaithlessIsHe
And then came the shot
aerodynamit3
oil? who said anything about oil?
Shoujo
Best comment in this thread! You made me happy again, thank you. Japan will send you playstations.
thiscommentwillselfdestruct
Bitch, you cookin?
ReturnWinchester
So why, in light of this, did Iran not go back to a similar leader in 1979? Why did they go full hardcore Islamist?
lordblood123
Because the shah was corrupt and decadent, so it was easier for a "pure" theocrat to better contrast against him than a regular politician.
Steelcan
this is grossly oversimplified
PersonalityFire
You wouldn't be paying attention if it weren't.
thiscommentwillselfdestruct
Yeah but it shits on America, that's all that matters
MarshmallowFluffernutterPie
Humans exploiting humans, what else is new
thanksfoenothing
Jeddaven
Also, as much as the US did fuck up the Middle East, so did the Soviets.
Shoujo
but her emails?
Thor046
And so did the people who actually live there.
Sturmgeschutz
Right, but hating the US is the cool thing to do for people from the US.
Pullout69
I think the Shah deserves more than just one footnote of a mention in all of this.
SoapyMammaryMasturbation
Very true, though it shouldn't be ignored that he had British and American support.
Panda4hire
We are still dealing with the fuck ups of the cold war nations. Look at South America.
d0o0o0d
Har. Look at Africa.
Panda4hire
Yup.
barnwolf
Sounds like the bad guys weren't America but Britain for tricking America into thinking the pro-democratic Mossadegh was actually Communist.
MidiArbite
He was mildly socialist, and there were Russian forces in the Soviet 'stans built up on the border.
NekokoVerena
Chaos is a ladder.
raptorsgottanewalpha
America be like http://imgur.com/MdWtMj9
hannibal1barca
Most of this is true, operation Ajax was a disaster against a democratically elected leader...but the writer kinda seems like a dick.
Jeddaven
Oh, come the fuck. North Korea was, in no way, completely innocent. They were, too, being assisted by the Soviets and China (1/2)
Jeddaven
, so why wouldn't the US do the same to South Korea?(2/2)
Sturmgeschutz
Because the Twitter user has an agenda.
RobertNAdams
Everyone has agenda. Mine is to get a cute wife with a good sense of humor and a nice butt. Also I guess my agenda is eat mozzarella cheese.
Jeddaven
Oh, I know. That's what I'm trying to say.
NeoHelios
Lost me at "nationalized the oil". If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... plenty of examples of failed communist/socialist govt's
majoraz
What the fuck does that have anything to do with anything? The British and we still coup'd them and fucked the region up out of greed
KrustyPartiallyGelatinatedNonDairyGumBasedBeverage
Huh. I read this on Twitter this morning, now on here. I really need to do some work.
pappymill
Nah. I'd call it a day if I were you bro. Reading the same thing twice? Enough for one day.
Ifixthingsthatdestroyotherthings
Planning on overthrowing some countries?
FriendlyGodlessHippie
What is this "work" you speak of?
meresin2718
We haven't had a world war since America got good at this kind of meddling. Not a coincidence.
lucivjov
Hm.. so I guess it's a question of would you rather millions die within a few years in war or over many years of systematic conflict
meresin2718
My vote is systemic conflict. It won't end the whole species.
AUselessreptile
i think it odd that people view the US doing it for right or wrong instead of doing it to win over the USSRs sphere of influence.
PersonalityFire
Mutually assured destruction changed the nature of large wars irrevocably. It's not as though this sort of meddling never happened pre-WWI.
mikmeh
We can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle, and this doesn't excuse the NK and Iranian gov'ts now.
GlitchNDaSystem
In case anyone is interested, check out the free steam game, The Cat and the Coup. You play as a cat who lives/interacts with Mossadegh 1/2
GlitchNDaSystem
It features real photos and info about the series of events before and leading up to his death. And you play as a cat. And it's free 2/2
tardis63
And people will still naively try to say religion is the most important reason for violence in the middle east...
FaithlessIsHe
Religion is just the tool to incite violence
tardis63
Not exactly, foreign involvement caused the destabilization that set the stage for a populist religious coup. Rural religious (1/2)
tardis63
(2/3) conservatives upset with the secularization of the government fighting for a return to theocratic legislation. Not too different from
tardis63
(3/3) the situation in the US right now, though it's unlikely to end the same due to our country size and large variety of nat. resources.
Polioman
Thanks Obama !
thanksfoenothing
Svartlebee
Yet thw Islamic revolution was a popular one. The Shah was widely hated for some of his policies.
Zombles
A lot of this is really oversimplified and the bias is obvious. "Busy bombing Korea" = defending the South from a North Korean invasion, etc
Lionskull
well, it's a twitter post, there's only so many 140 character segments that they can write before it gets obnoxious.
Mountaineer30680
It was pretty obnoxious after the first post... Not "Iran reneged on their agreement", but "Iran decided to heroically nationalize oil!"
Lionskull
based on the information provided, they got a smaller cut and had their citizens treated like shit, I think they have a right to renege.
Mountaineer30680
Perhaps they did, the problem I was pointing out was the poster's bias.
MidiArbite
"Busy in Korea" or "Busy with Korea."
SwordLord10
Busy in Korea is shorter then busy bombing Korea though
Molvanian
The language is inflammatory and manipulative, which is a shame. The actual act deserves to be viewed objectively, This would have held
Molvanian
up just as well without the rhetoric.
Riptide00
When you say "America" did this, you mean "what those in power did in complete secrecy".
beggingyourmajestyspardon
So basically...america
Lionskull
right, but from the point of view of the common iranian at the time, america did this. so you pass on your hate for the west, and voila.
Chozolink
You mean the democratically elected officials?.
Chuletathewonder
Yeah because it's not like politicians can lie to us right?
Riptide00
The citizens can only hold them accountable if they know what they've done.
EKOasaripple
No, this person clearly states "those in power"
BluBoxx
We the people put them in power....
GnomeDeGuerre
Is that fully true? Was that a free and fair choice?
Riptide00
We're a Republic. So we don't get to directly make any of the decisions.
TheJazzGhost
I think an argument can be made that our form of Democracy is just another trick the people in power are playing on us.
TheJazzGhost
I think my point is that we don't get to choose who runs. The party effectively selects the front runner. At least for the Dems.
sugarhigh
how do we put the CIA out of power
ashlington
Fire
ashlington
Fire and blood
yuugian
Vote. The director of the CIA is chosen by the president. The rules of the CIA are chosen by Congress. Vote in EVERY election
BardicLasher
As far as the rest of the world is concerned, those in power are the will of America.
ashlington
That's why they're meant to be in power because the people put them there
HaveAKnifeDay
that's fucking stupid because you can't be certain about any elected official. it could happen with any country in the world.
ashlington
It has in most
HaveAKnifeDay
that's my point. nobody in any country can be 100% sure about the person they're electing. it seems like common sense idk why I'm downvoted.
ashlington
Because people think you're defending America and the band wagon rolls over all sense and truth
TwoCheese
Prly did.
HamsterOnAGoat
Why the ever living hell do people think that site is the appropriate place to write novels?
MrLunas
Thinking the same thing.
Lionskull
because they have a lot of followers that they can talk to.
SinisterStingray
I blame the Ottoman Turks
thanksfoenothing
You know you can't go back to Constantinople. It's been taken over by the Turks.
thiscommentwillselfdestruct
Istanbul was Constantinople, but that's none of my business
PlayerNumberOneHasEnteredTheGame
Y ?
CarmenBonkalot
That's no body's business but the Turks ????????????
xedative
Does it kill you to press two other keys and complete the three-letter word?
SwordLord10
The Ottomans conquest of Arabia spawned wahabism, the ideology behind much terrorism
PlayerNumberOneHasEnteredTheGame
Sure
DrMaggot
The Crusades spawned the fall of the Mamluks and the rise of the Ottomans who conquered Arabia. You can go far in chain reactions in history
SwordLord10
The Crusades were in response to hundreds of years of Islamic aggression against Christianity, which was caused by a pedophilic madman
ExC12
The Muslim conquests of Northern Africa/the Middle East/Spain caused the crusades
TravNel
I havent forgot. America fucks around with other countries WAY too much. And things dont normally get any better.
BleakMidwinters
There is a reason America is a super power today. It wasn't by luck. I know I can't complain about my situation compared to others.
Molder12
And then we ask why everyone hates us. I hate how ignorant some patriots are
Sturmgeschutz
Except that's wrong. Most like the US and her people, just not the government. Do some world traveling before you complain about ignorance.
barnwolf
Things are way to complicated to say that. Actively resisting the spread of Communism likely prevented WW3.
Thekingofbeans
Nukes. Nukes prevented WW3.
Vespy
It does for a tiny proportion of rich americans, and they dgaf.
EhIsForCanehdians
I suppose it's an inevitability, with the US being conceived by the Brits, the Kings of foreign invasion and hostile take overs.
MrTay
Philippines, Korea, Japan, most of Eastern Europe, Germany. All countries with decent economy's democracy and civil rights. 1/
MrTay
All products of American involvement. Not to say we haven't done our shady shit, but this post doesn't frame the whole picture Iran and 2/
MrTay
To say we have rarely had good out comes is bs. People just focus on the places that went to shit but most were going to shit already. 3/
MrTay
They ignore the shit loads of aid, support, and help we have given most countries in the world.
ihavealteredmyusernameagainprayidontalteritanyfurther
Your mistake is in assuming that 'things getting better' is the actual goal. A stable happy world is nearly impossible to manipulate.
SirReginaldDukeOfChutney
Chaos is a ladder.
beardedheathen
thats why i had to laugh at the outrage over possibly russian tampering of our election. Not so fun when it happens to us is it?
FEMAcampsarereal
Bingo.
Drarra
Not fun, but why is it not rightful to outrage as being citizens?!
beardedheathen
Are we outraged at our government for doing it to others? Its pretty hypocritical to only care about how we are affected.
ImgursLibertarian
There is only one party in the US that wants peace.
ImgursLibertarian
https://www.lp.org/platform/
ImgursLibertarian
https://gop.com/platform
ImgursLibertarian
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform
Randomshitforfun
Im gonna assume libertarian, i dont know why
ImgursLibertarian
That's a pretty good choice.
Getty13
This statement is so deluded and biased that it is hard to take it seriously. There are people on all sides who want peace, and war.
ImgursLibertarian
Yes. Absolutely. But only one PARTY, that actually wants it. I stand by my statement.
Getty13
Just like with republicans and dems there are libertarians who are hawkish and some dovish. Generalizations are bad both ways
SaintsRoDah
Just because a party doesnt want it doesnt mean the supporters also dont want it too
ImgursLibertarian
Good thing I clarified in my first statement PARTY. Because that's all i'm talking about. All groups have violent extremists too.
BeesechurgerProductions
The first person I met who stated themselves as a Libertarian wanted to nuke China. The Libertarians are no more unified than anyone else.
ImgursLibertarian
https://www.lp.org/platform/ say what you want, but the GOP loves war, and Obama is the only president to be at war for all 8 years.
GreaterDog
We're frequently the "bad guys" of the UN Security Council, as well. We're often the sole veto vote protecting our pet repressive regimes 1
GreaterDog
and have long resisted resolutions for establishing basic human rights. 2
GreaterDog
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vetoed_United_Nations_Security_Council_resolutions The CIA taught and equipped Iraq for chemical 3
GreaterDog
warfare in the Iran-Iraq War then used their UN position to prevent its censure. We looked the other way in his genocide of 100k+ Kurds. 4
GreaterDog
Then when Saddam became "uncontrollable" with Kuwait, we funded a series of terrorist plots/bombings in 1992 to try to upend him. 5
Niddhoger
And Israel. Time and time again the UN trimes to sanction Israeli human rights abuses against the Palestinians... US always blocks them.
TheConformityInCommentorsHereIsAstronomical
Serious question: When (apart from ww2) did American intervention help make things better for the country on the receiving end?
Getty13
Korea
MrTay
Germany. You think we didn't have a major hand in helping the wall come down and the rebuilding? Or the countless genocides we intervened on
Getty13
Kuwait
Lionskull
helped kuwait, fucked the rest of the middle eastern countries by removing the country holding iran back.
12rt2345g342563
I would say that most of the former USSR countries are glad to not be under Moscow's thumb. Does that count?
TonyCrazy007
The Marshall plan which was financial aid America sent to Europe to help rebuild after ww2, dno if that counts
Shoujo
The Marshall plan made the world what it is today, without it things would have gone much worse, extremely much worse.
avavilina
The Marshal plan was used to rebuild countries that may have otherwise supported the USSR or failed to support US. It wasn't charity.
ChaoticScholar
Surprisingly enough, West Germany was actually pretty good, but you compare it to the Soviets tearing the copper wiring out of the walls 1/2
ChaoticScholar
And distributing everything to places closer to Russia, it's not hard to look good compared to the early days of East Germany 2/2
Pullout69
It stopped communist North Korea from taking over the entire country.
superduperyooperthatspissedoff
It's not about making things better. Every airport speaks American English and every barrel of petroleum is bought and sold with USD
SwaglortSeal
After economic growth caused the gold standard to become obsolete many countries decided to back their currency to the USD in exchange for 1
SwaglortSeal
the federal reserve controlling inflation. The reserve also CANNOT default on its debts because of this agreement. Not exactly malicious. 2
Randomshitforfun
South korea is pretty successful, and japan after we stepped in after wwii
poshlatino
one of the highest suicide rates on the globe
ForrestIndustries
That's because of the traditional aspect of Japan though.
poshlatino
I meant S Korea
WarrenBaity
Don’t bring our positives up. People hate the facts of us doing something that helped.
Shoujo
No we dont, the Marshall plan made the western world what it is today. Your help consists of way more than going to war and overthrowing.
Ickeh
Wait... did you actually read the tweets?
MrTay
The half framed ones you mean.... he didn't say we were perfect but we have helped a shot load of countries.
WarrenBaity
I was being sarcastic.
iamdickburns
Other than WW2 and maybe S. Korea, It's never better for the country on the receiving end, it's better for America, that's why we do it.
MrTay
What about Germany. Or helping stop genocide in Eastern Europe and Africa.
iamdickburns
I mentioned WW2 and I don't know if you been paying attention but we ain't stopping shit in Africa. All we did was destabilize East Europe
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
Chile's pretty nice.
YourGosh
As a Chilean... Meh: things went fine while there were parts of the state to sell, but now lobbying has too much power (1/x)
YourGosh
...and politicians have become a social class that rubs constantly with big corps doing favors to each others
YourGosh
Public education has been defunded gradually, generating to countries that will not permeate (2/x)
poshlatino
Chile's education, pension and health systems are quite below "Meh". Per capita GDP has indeed grown, but inequality is way too high
YourGosh
I know, right? Chile is developing but, who is developing in Chile? The 0.1% the rest is increasingly angry and protesting
YourGosh
Pensions and private healthcare are just means for transferring money to the stock market, and really SUCK for most people
TheConformityInCommentorsHereIsAstronomical
I don't know much about current day Chile, but it certainly wasn't much to brag about under Pinochet (whom the US helped gain the power).
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
https://youtu.be/8P4Hi99hUJc Compare to countries like Venezuela, where the left-wing took power.
BeesechurgerProductions
poorly nationalizing the oil industry, failing to issue proper economic reforms, then proclaiming 'Socialism' is hardly left-wing.
TheConformityInCommentorsHereIsAstronomical
To me the natural country to compare post US intervention Chile with is pre US intervention Chile, which was doing quite all right.