unwaver
47939
2077
25
And yet, the majority of Iranians will welcome Americans into their homes with loving grace.
The late Anthony Bourdain said it best: "You tend to kill your guests with kindness around here," emphasizing the overabundance of homecooked meals offered and the overwhelming warmth of strangers. It's a level of hospitality he compared to all his years of travelling.
MV Edit: please send me pics of books you recommend
TinyBadger101
And let us never forget the Monroe doctrine, literal banana republics, and the School for the Americas in the 1980s. The fact that any Latin American country still talks to the US or has any positive feelings towards the US is a minor miracle / function of cutthroat realpolitik.
WhatisaYute
The movie Charlie Wilson's War is not only phenomenal, but it's about funding and then fucking over the Mujahideen. It's all true shit that happened.
mjcherbert
find the excellent Blowback podcast - "after covering the Iraq War, the Cuban Revolution, the Korean War, and the Afghanistan conflict, Season 5 of Blowback will feature the story of Cambodia, Kissinger and the Khmer Rouge" -- https://blowback.show/
EverNotRelevant
I think if you told conservatives, they'd be like, "so what." American Exceptionalism runs deep.
ladyoftheflies
Shock doctrine by Naomi Klein is one of the best books to read about this!
spontaneous9
While working the ski season at a resort hotel I had 2 Persian roommates who left the Mideast because they read the writing on the wall about an upcoming popular uprising. They'd never admit to being Iranian though, always insisting they were Persians. Those dudes were super-chill, always polite, fastidious, comical af and extremely trustworthy. Best roommates ever.
They had a few guarded criticisms of the Pahlavi regime, one of them being how he got into offfice. It's no secret.
PrincessWasabi
Worth nothing Persian is an ethnic group in iran, many people identify as such
NOYLL
The few Iranians I've met have been some of the nicest people I've met, and I've traveled a lot.
TheDreadPirateMontoya
I worked with a dude who always insisted he was Persian because he disliked the connotations of being called Iranian. One of the nicest, most generous, genuine, funny guys I've ever had the pleasure of knowing.
spontaneous9
I believe it goes much deeper than that for these guys. It's their tribe, their culture. They prefer it to the national identity because that's too general. There are other tribes & cultures right nearby in their region with whom they, as a distinct cultural group must compete, but they ... they are Persians.
CornwindEvil
I think on something my dad said: countries cannot have morals, countries are an abstract thing and can only have INTERESTS. But...countries can't exist without people. Where is the line where groups of people cross this abstract? I can't ask him any more, he passed away years ago.
armandraynal
The line is class. The working class did not do this. It was in the interest of capitalist class.
jaggcomputing5
I think the only people who are unaware of this are Americans
Dannyalcatraz
See also the nasty shit we’ve done to our own populace, even EXCLUDING slavery and the genocide of Native Americans.
forelle
As someone living in Germany, the earlier the US deals with its bad sides the better for the US and the rest of the world. In Germany this is called Vergangenheitsbewältigung (the act of a nation dealing with problematic parts of its own past).
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
It's not a coincidence that all of the stupidest, most ignorant people I've known in my life went all-in for Trump.
blarkk
I had a coworker who couldn't understand why other countries could hate the USA. I gave him a Cliff's notes version of US meddling in Chile. His response? "I don't believe that happened."
sehven
Like how? Just fucking how?! How can a person just be like, "Yeah, no, I just ain't gonna' believe that," just because it's uncomfortable? I just can't understand these people at all.
iusedtodream
Psychic damage! It hurts to discover bad things about something you identify your ego with. Many people will choose to block it out, deny it, resist engaging with truth, because it is difficult, painful, and messy.
UncleMartha
Holy shit, people will fight so hard to keep from admitting that the vision they have in their heads of America™ is all a fabrication. It would be admirable if it weren't so destructive / deleterious.
MmmmmSoup
Yep they are so brainwashed they are like the robots in westworld "doesn't look like anything to me"
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
"Facts don't care about your feelings"
armandraynal
Lmao, it's admitted by the CIA archives themselves, what else can he want to believe it happened???
badbiscuit
That's why they have tried to erase American history, genocide and people fighting oppression.
ItsACrazyWorld
Shocking behavior from a country that was literally founded by stealing land from its rightful owners and then committing genocide against said people. Also this country was built on the backs of slaves... how is anyone surprised..
LaughingMan2Gig
After WW2 the US went into full capitalism mode and with the industrial military complex has spent all of their time and good will attempting to crush any opposition to capitalism. School of the americas trained terrorists and torture. Operation Gladio was the US and NATO committing terrorism to oppose increased socialism popularity. All their evil is in the name of money and power.
AyatollahBahloni
"Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" and "Lies My Teacher Told Me"
nicetomeetyouimdad
Let’s play “Circa Survive song titles or Best Selling Books”!
Wolfshead009
"War Is a Racket" by Smedley D. Butler.
HeywouldJablowme
America is by far the number one funder and creator of terrorism in the entire world. It's literally what our system is built on. Funding terrorist groups to overthrow governments that wouldn't sell us their resources and instead demanded that their resources help their own people. Fucking sacrilege! That's communism! No, your resources should go to American companies and conglomerates so we can profit off of them while your people starve. That's America. America fucking sucks.
MyPetMimic
Americans have been the bad guys from day one
What with the Puritans being a terrorist group that were kicked out of England for trying to overthrow the government.
We've been shit for our whole existence.
DonL9
Chef's not wrong.
NachoIskerka
I mean, he's skimping over a LOT of details- the mujahideen explicitly were NOT al-qaeda. That formed after a civil war 5 years later from extremeist elements within the group but unrelated in ideals. Also, said oppression was not forcing women to be in a forced theocracy, so...? Like, the so called oppression was the Shah enacting similar western style reforms that were happening in Afghanistan with their monarchy, and what they got was the conservative islamist revolution so....
chingadamadrex
USA also trained part of the Mexican navy and turned into killing machines….. they later formed their own group cause they pretty much were impossible to stop…. The zetas cartel.
derekjohn
The commonest mistake in American foreign policy has been the fallacy that: 'the enemy of my enemy must be my friend' - and needs money.
Fouthtimeburntout
Rambo III and The Living Daylights both venerate the Mujahadeen in a very direct way. It's an interesting artifact of how today's allies can be tomorrow's enemies.
OliverOtter
It's not exactly accurate. Britain created Iran's oil industry, and all the equipment to extract the oil was British. Mossadegh wasn't elected by the people of Iran, he was elected by the Majlis, or Parliament. He was popular with the people, generally, but far from all of them. And once he was in power he started introducing literacy tests to ensure only his supporters could vote, and removed the checks and balances that allowed the Shah (who had already been the constitutional monarch of
flavivsaetivs
Yeah if you talk to Iranians they really hate a lot of their own past government like the Shahs who straight up sold most of their Empire off to the British, combined with the British and French carving up the Middle East like Africa.
Like yes the US has been the bad guy in recent years but most of the problems over there have their roots in European colonialism of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
OliverOtter
Iran for many years) to expel him from offiice for cause. He allied himself with the Iranian communist party and the Soviets (he was NOT himself a communist, but was willing to sell out Iran to them to stay in power), and nationalized the oil industry, including theft of all the British-owned equipment. On top of which, the US repeatedly defended him. It was Britain who wanted him overthrown. Eventually Churchill managed to persuade Eisenhower that he was bringing Iran fully into the thrall
OliverOtter
of the USSR, and the CIA was instructed to remove him. He wasn't executed, just deposed and kept out of government, while the Shah was restored as the constitutional monarch overseeing Parliament, based on the British system. After almost being deposed in a coup, he let his security forces have too much of a free hand, and they were brutal. The sad thing is, Khomeini had been an ally of the Shah against Mossadegh prior to that crackdown, and a split of the oil industry between multiple
OliverOtter
companies, not just British Petroleum, that he disagreed with. And especially the Shah's reform, ten years later, to allow women to vote and non-Muslim politicians to hold office.
The people of Iran don't hate the US. Their dictatorial theocratic government does.
azazyel
Remember Gen Schwarzkopf? His dad was one of those behind the toppling of Iran's government.
SoberAndBored
It's not just about creating the mujahideen, it's about what happened afterwards: America provided just a shitload of money to train up the Afghani resistance, yes, but they also provided a shitload of money to Pakistan because they wanted their assistance in providing training locations, getting weapons into Afghanistan etc, and (very importantly) for looking after the massive number of Afghani refugees who'd fled over the border. When the Soviets pulled out, ALL of that money just vanished,
SoberAndBored
even though the Americans had agreed not just to keep paying, but exact figures on how much money they'd be supplying. Suddenly Afghanistan and Pakistan had massive holes in their budgets directly caused by America breaking their agreements. After that came the war on drugs: those two countries produced and supplied heroin in massive quantities, which is bad, ok. But America went in on "collective punishment" to try to end the trade: they blocked all kinds of aid from all their allies to try to
SoberAndBored
get the Afghan government (in particular) to stop the production of heroin. Problem was, that's all that Afghanistan HAD as a cash crop, so the effect was to take power away from any centralised government and give it to local warlords/drug producers, because they had the money to pay soldiers and the government didn't. So you have a country full of well trained, well equipped fighters, trained in resisting more powerful invaders, and a sympathetic neighbouring country, both of whole HATE
SoberAndBored
America for everything it's done to both of them. Let's invade !
Deonan
read some books!
Mackeemac
I have been. I’ve learned about CIA operations in Afghanistan, Iran and Laos so far, and I’m appalled. Especially since I grew up homeschooled with a deeply conservative Christian curriculum that taught me that America could do no wrong.
walnutbreath
Start with one on Mosaddegh's election. He wasn't democratically elected. He stole the election. He made them stop counting votes once his party had a majority and a quorum.
BrdCdn
Yeah this chef just gave a Reddit history lesson. Aka bullshit with kernels of truth. He really should take his own advice. Iran was far more complicated, and he's flat out ignorant and wrong on Al Qaeda and Afghanistan.
CodyOnJupiter
I'm glad someone said it. This guy (and a ton of Imgur with similar views) are the equivalent of all those Covid-deniers that "did their own research" (e.g., people saying "read more books" who have never read a single actual history book or research paper themselves).
BrdCdn
It's a common thing with Americans of all political stripes I find. They seem to think the world revolves around them and all modern history is somehow directly a result of US actions. For sure America has had a huge influence on the world for the last while, but the truth is always more complicated than what you can fit in a tik tok video.
anthrdrunkenwannabepoet
they keep taking them away
jimblebee
some gawt dayum books
LifeIsADanceOfMinds
Books
*Not available in all states.
jimblebee
Gotta pay extra for that 'round these parts.
Neednoggle
There's a whole movie starting Tom Hanks about funding the Mujahideen. Charlie Wilson's War
KipperFillets
I think it's The Living Daylights where Bind meets and helps "Bin Laden" a plucky British educated freedom fighter.
ChilupaBatman
Phillip Seymour Hoffman was amazing in this movie. RIP
BrdCdn
The Mujahideen isn't Al Qaeda though. Hell alot of the group's in the Mujahideen fought the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Look up the Northern alliance and Dostum. Afghanistan is a complicated, multicultural country with a long history. Idiots like this Chef that just ignorantly assume the west causes all history are frustrating.
CaiMyrren
Its all fun and games until they realize you were no better than the other guys.
nalmeth
Well, in that case we were. We weren't the ones invading (at that time). It wasn't until after when promises went unkept and they were abandoned.
r3b007
Yes Chef!
jimblebee
Correct.
BrdCdn
Incorrect. Chef should take his own advice and open a history book. He's broadly correct about Iran but completely ignorant of Afghanistan. Al Qaeda =\= Mujahideen and the US never supplied Osama or his group with arms or training.
TheGrumpyOldTroll
now who's misinformed? good job, you're who he's talking about.
BrdCdn
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you refuting what I'm saying? It's all in the history books if you dig a little deeper than Reddit. I'm not making any commentary on the current situation. Just that he was flat out wrong on the historical stuff.
TheGrumpyOldTroll
/gallery/0KKybs8/comment/2464094643
Asadsadsadclown
Naw those are the sunken facial features of a line cook that just got off an 18 hour meth fueled shift.
ArchaeoEejit
Still got more sense than most politicians.
TheGrumpyOldTroll
I'd vote for him.
CallMeSally
Don't be a judgy bitch
Asadsadsadclown
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1c3U3Z2RxM3JnbjNzb28ydjhqMG44MXM5cWpkY3d4ZXZyOG51bHlyeCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/AgWQwLTByaABsBQ9Zf/200w.webp
ps238principal
That's why the GOP wants to remove anything from history education that makes them "feel bad." See also how we screwed Cuba for decades by supporting Batista, making an eventual revolution inevitable. They never acknowledge that Castro was basically our fault, as was nearly every dictatorship in Central America: When the CIA and the Dulles Bros. were set to overthrow you for fruit companies, you had to go full police state or get infiltrated and sabotaged.
whydotheycometometodie
Carter was President and Congress was majority Democrat
skapanda616
Also worth noting that most of the people seeking asylum in the US are coming from regions we destabilized and still economically exploit.
SpamYarBlockers
Yeah those books are illegal to teach in many school systems across America, and if Trump gets his way, in all of them
NR97420
Ted Cruz, whose father was tortured by the regime prior to Castro, blamed communism for it! That is how far they will go to lie, his own fam
LumpPump
its already like that imo, my history books made usa look like the heros, framed teh creation of our nation as something to be proud of and sure we learned of the trail of tears but it was never taught like how horrible it was, it was taught like the cost of doing business "we asked them all to go live over here" &sure there are kids that will see that &think how horrible, but those that dont pay attention or think deep on it, the idea of how bad it really is goes whoosh over kidBrain
TheWombatStrikesAgain
At this point, I'm not even sure if that's still necessary. I'm afraid, if confronted with this, today's conservatives would be like "Yeah, but we had a right to do what we wanted to them, because we're America and they're weaker than us. So fuck them anyway."
WinstonSmith101
Don’t forget Iran was a CIA operation to install the Ayatollah…
NachoIskerka
Is this a weird time to mention that the original western backed government until the islamist revolution was a very socially liberal regime that aimed to modernize the country and educate women which was ultimately overthrown by the populist conservative islamist revolution? Granted Iran ought to be able to self govern but its kind of complicated in some respects
CommunCreator
The social liberalism of the Shah was a fig leaf to obscure the lack of political freedom and the fact that BP was looting his country’s oil wealth for a pittance. The Shah routinely disappeared his critics. To quote Garry Trudeau, “THE SHAH IS A MURDERER!”
CommunCreator
No, the CIA had installed the Shah. Removing him, even to install someone else, would have been a waste. People didn’t give the Ayatollah much of a thought at the time because he was part of a coalition of otherwise leftist pro-democracy moderates. That’s who everyone THOUGHT was going to take over, until the Ayatollah took control and crushed all opposition, including his former allies.
InTangier
Frankly, I have no idea how the CIA receives any funding at all. The people approving their budget must've been high on the cocaine the CIA smuggled inside the US to fund their paramilitaries and coups.
Pretty much all the shit they did backfired stupendously, to the point of kinda impressive. Remember when they hired some Mexican porn actor that kinda looked like Sukarno, made some sex tapes, and tried to blackmail him?
Then Sukarno asked for the tapes so he could watch them too lol.
armandraynal
They did reach their goals on quite a few occasions. They managed to sabotage Allende's economy and overthrow him to put Pinochet in power in Chile for instance, they managed to do the same with Mossadegh and the Shah in Iran too, and a few others.
InTangier
That's the whole point. They took out Allende, put Pinochet, sent the Chicago Boys in to plan their economy on extreme neoliberalism, and ironically the state only survived barely because they still had one state-owned mine after ther privatized everything. They collapsed a thriving economy with their astrology economics.
And yeah, the Shah... if you want to see how well it went, listen to the video again.
In the long term, they pretty much headbutt a landmine ecerytime.
Bignholy
They DID succeed. The problem is, their goals were short term, like everything MAGA is doing. MAGA might clear the country of liberal politics if they succeed fully, but in a generation our country will be a broken mockery of itself because they'll kill everything that makes our country function in the process. They're already pushing science out the window. You know, along with the scientists that allowed us to keep ahead of the tech curve. Especially the military.
InTangier
If you call it success to turn the biggest economic powerhouse into a neoliberal hellhole, get the majority of world to hate the US, and inevitably fade into increasing irrelevance as other countries band together to avoid being reliant on the US, then yeah, great success!
dposton70
The CIA likes to collect (or fabricate) compromising intel on politicians.
Including our own politicians.
That's why they're still funded.
IAlwaysEatGlue
The cia has what’s called a black budget meaning they get to add what they need to other organisations budgets so that no one is able to figure out just what they’re capable of since you don’t know how deep their pockets are other than very. I think I heard something about that being put to an end but I can’t be sure. But yea, no one approves the CIA’s budget knowingly
Tisherumpkiseranikan
The answer you're looking for is a military doctrine called the "Balance is Power" theory. USA policy was a compromise with groups that wanted to immediately invade and occupy north and central America following WW2
Tisherumpkiseranikan
hrmm was? is? We unfortunately lacked&lack sufficient leadership to adjust our regional policies to build peace and stability while maintaining our position.
InTangier
Calling it a doctrine is kinda reaching, imo. It was haphazard and constantly flopped (and those are the ones we know of).
They created untold chaos and empowered America's enemies for some economic advantage the US is about to lose to China, because the world hates the US lol.
I'm not making an historical argument, I'm honestly laughing at how cartoonishly unhinged the CIA operated for so long without anyone being like, "okay, what the fuck. No."
Some stories are hilarious, frankly.
Tisherumpkiseranikan
Doctrine felt like the right word because most of the plans came out of West Point and were based on historical president. Please feel free to substitute whatever word you think best describes methods and philosophies that dictate military defensive plans 🤷
InTangier
I'd call it something along the lines of whiskey/coke-informed vibes!
DaisyfromDownunder
And the Yanks were always late for the big, important wars in modern history.
nalmeth
Because neither time did we start it and at the time they didn't want to get involved. Both times we got dragged into. First time by Germany, the second by Japan.
DaisyfromDownunder
That reads as a parochial suggestion of US bias. There were 53 other nations fighting with the allies in WW2. None of those countries started anything either and they too were dragged in. There was a massive pro Nazi movement in the US if you know your history.
nalmeth
I don't know about massive, but I do remember hearing something about that, yes. My only point is that it's a strange way to say it and sounds like we were just dragging our feet. When that isn't really what happened. Anyhow better "late" than never since the rest of the allies needed the help. Personality at the time, I probably would have supported joining the allies sooner.
DaisyfromDownunder
Have you ever been to Madison Square Garden? It's massive. Here's a little edification about the US Nazis - some of which Hitler copied and took for himself - if you know the history. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/10/trump-madison-square-garden-rally-nazi-comparison
nalmeth
I haven't been there. I know it's a large venue though. To be clear, I consider one being too many, but even a full MSG is small compared to the entire population of the US. I feel like we may actually have more now than before (although many of the now either don't know or aren't willing to admit to themselves that they are.) Of course, I could definitely be wrong on the numbers.